Do Muslims think Jesus was crucified or not?

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Look the Crucifixtion has been recorded by Christian, Jewish and Roman Authors. It most Definately happened. Its documented Historical fact.

The fact that Mohammad came along 600 years later and found this hard to imagine is of little sigificance. People today don’t believe we landed on the Moon in 69.

No theologian or historian would dispute the fact that Jesus Chist was the single most influential figure ever to walk the face of the earth. His actions, words, and miracles changed the course of History. He inspired entire societies, He redefined the standards of morality, He changed the course of Nations. He has bought to the table an unexplainable measure of purpose, peace and joy to the lives of Hundreds of Millions. And the Kingdom continues to this moment.

In His brief life Christ fulfilled HUNRDEDS of OT prophecies describing the birth, life and death of the messiah. Let alone the Miracles and wonders.

Lets put this in perspective as Dr Stoner, and Dr Robert Newman have with their calculations on probability.

The statistical probability of “one person” fulfilling just 48 of these detailed prophecys is… 1 in 10 to the 157 power. In case your not familiar with that number? Its a 1 with a 159 zeros after it. Christ completes over 3X this number. How is it possible? Luck?

And yes He claimed to be the Messiah and the Son of the Living God. Not only did He make perposterous claims, He backed them all up. For example in John 11:38-44 Jesus not only claims He can raise people from the dead, but He proves it. Jesus revives a rotting corpse in a tomb? Do you know anyone who can do this? Because I don’t. How about Peter fishing and catching nothing, till Christ encourages Him to try one more time in a place He suggests? Calms the Storm on the Sea? Heals, Exorcisms, Transfiguration and it just continues on with this guy called Christ.

Jesus then claims He is going to be executed, buried for three days and would then rise from the dead? So perposterous the apostles don’t even believe this one. That is until Christ appears in their midst after His resurrection. BTW Mary is the “only” one who never doubts His word for a moment. “Do everything He tells you” Thats what Mary has to say, smart advice I would say. Matter of Fact, he volunteers for the Cross. He basically said, “is that the best you have”?, “I’ll take that then”!

He not only dies on the Cross, He picked the Cross to die on.
 
It is very similar to the mythical “Injeel.” Muslims believe that christian scripture has been corrupted, but they don’t produce the original. One can’t successfully make the argument that Christ’s message was changed without producing the original.

I suspect muslims will say the Koran is a re-statement of that original message.

Why? Because the Koran says so.

This circular reasoning is Huge Fallacy #3 for Mohammad and his religion.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Don’t you wish you had a miracle to prove you right?
Click to expand...
What About A Miracle Coming From ISLAM’S Side, Sister Amy?

Muhammad Never Did A Miracle. Not One. Just Talked To An “Angel” Named “Gabriel” That Only HE Could See And Hear. And Who Was Verified As An Angel, NOT A Jinn, By His FIRST WiFE, Who “Verified” “Gabriel” By Having Muhammad Sit On Her Lap And Asking Him “Do You See The Angel?” When He Said “Yes,” She Then Verified To Muhammad That He Had Seen An “Angel.” :rolleyes:
 
Sister_Amy said:
Don’t you wish you had a miracle to prove you right?
Click to expand...
We don’t look for a miracles, we walk by Faith, not by sight.

From the CCC:

Faith - the beginning of eternal life

163 Faith makes us taste in advance the light of the beatific vision, the goal of our journey here below. Then we shall see God “face to face”, “as he is”.[47] So faith is already the beginning of eternal life:
When we contemplate the blessings of faith even now, as if gazing at a reflection in a mirror, it is as if we already possessed the wonderful things which our faith assures us we shall one day enjoy.[48]

164 Now, however, “we walk by faith, not by sight”;[49] we perceive God as “in a mirror, dimly” and only “in part”.[50] Even though enlightened by him in whom it believes, faith is often lived in darkness and can be put to the test. The world we live in often seems very far from the one promised us by faith. Our experiences of evil and suffering, injustice and death, seem to contradict the Good News; they can shake our faith and become a temptation against it.

165 It is then we must turn to the witnesses of faith: to Abraham, who “in hope… believed against hope”;[51] to the Virgin Mary, who, in “her pilgrimage of faith”, walked into the “night of faith”[52] in sharing the darkness of her son’s suffering and death; and to so many others: “Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus the pioneer and perfecter of our faith.”[53]

MJ
 
Sister_Amy said:
Don’t you wish you had a miracle to prove you right?
Click to expand...
Would it be safe for me to infer from this question that your native tongue is farsi? For those of you without experience, check out a documentary that features native speakers of farsi, even though it is translated, you will find querks to their methods of communication, of which Sister Amy’s is an example. I noticed this manly with the way muslim women talk to each other.
 
The religion of deception. The perfect plan of the devil. Come to Mohammad, say your Gabriel and you get another religion denigning the divinity of Christ. Besides, the religion of peace isn’t very peaceful. Unless your talking about the other piece. That is after the suicide bombers are completed their tasks of evil.
 
ADouglass said:
you will find querks to their methods of communication, of which Sister Amy’s is an example. I noticed this manly with the way muslim women talk to each other.
Click to expand...
What kind of “quirks” exactly? Could you expand on this?
 
LtTony said:
It is very similar to the mythical “Injeel.” Muslims believe that christian scripture has been corrupted, but they don’t produce the original. One can’t successfully make the argument that Christ’s message was changed without producing the original.

I suspect muslims will say the Koran is a re-statement of that original message.

Why? Because the Koran says so.

This circular reasoning is Huge Fallacy #3 for Mohammad and his religion.
Click to expand...
Mind you I do not believe that GOD revealed the Quran to Mohammad but, what is very much a dilemma is that in fact the Quran validates the Holy Bible. Here are a few verses:
2.97 Say: Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel-for he brings down the to thy heart by Allah’s will, a confirmation of what went before, and guidance and glad tidings for those who believe,-

2:136 Say ye: “We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma’il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah.”

3:3 It is He Who sent down to thee, in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law and the Gospel before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion.

3.84 Say: “We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Isma’il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them, and to Allah do we bow our will.”

4.47 O ye People of the Book! believe in what We have revealed, confirming what was with you, before We change the face and fame of some beyond all recognition, and turn them hindwards, or curse them as We cursed the Sabbath-breakers, for the decision of Allah Must be carried out.

5.44It was We who revealed the law: therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the prophets who bowed to Allah’s will, by the rabbis and the doctors of law: for to them was entrusted the protection of Allah’s book, and they were witnesses thereto: therefore fear not men, but fear me, and sell not my signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge by what Allah hath revealed, they are Unbelievers.

5:46 And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.

5.47 Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by what Allah hath revealed, they are those who rebel.

5:48 To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;

5.66 If only they had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side. There is from among them a party on the right course: but many of them follow a course that is evil.

5:68 Say: “O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord.” It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But sorrow thou not over people without Faith.

6:154 Moreover, We gave Moses the Book, completing to those who would do right, and explaining all things in detail,- and a guide and a mercy, that they might believe in the meeting with their Lord.

Here is the funniest one- the Quran a fuller explaination?!?

10:37 This Qur’an is not such as can be produced by other than Allah; on the contrary it is a confirmation of that went before it, and a fuller explanation of the Book - wherein there is no doubt - from the Lord of the worlds

29.46 And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better, unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong: but say, “We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one; and it is to Him we bow.”

32.23 We did indeed aforetime give the Book to Moses: be not then in doubt of its reaching: and We made it a guide to the Children of Israel

35.31 That which We have revealed to thee of the Book is the Truth,- confirming what was before it: for Allah is assuredly- with respect to His Servants - well acquainted and Fully Observant.

46:12 And before this, was the Book of Moses as a guide and a mercy: And this Book confirms in the Arabic tongue; to admonish the unjust, and as Glad Tidings to those who do right.

46.30 They said, "O our people! We have heard a Book revealed after Moses, confirming what came before it: it guides to the Truth and to a Straight Path.

Here is my favorite!:
061.014
O ye who believe! Be ye helpers of Allah: As said Jesus the son of Mary to the Disciples, “Who will be my helpers to (the work of) Allah?” Said the disciples, “We are Allah’s helpers!” then a portion of the Children of Israel believed, and a portion disbelieved: But We gave power to those who believed, against their enemies, and they became the ones that prevailed.

Why would allah have given us the power to prevail for a couple of thousand years if we had a false book?
 
Sister_Amy said:
Don’t you wish you had a miracle to prove you right?
Click to expand...
I do have personnal miracles proving to me that I and every Christian following Jesus is on the right path.

One night when I was a bit younger, I started thinking about death- none existance. I was so very, very ditstraught, afraid, sobbing. I prayed for Jesus and HE immediately surrounded me with a warmth, a love, a cosy sensation that I have never felt before or since.- but then again I haven’t needed it I know HE is right here in my heart.

A healing of terrible foot pain. In the past I had plantar fasciitis on tthe other foot. So I knew what that felt like and that was cured doing special exercises. Someone was praying for different healings for other people. I realized they are praying about me without me telling them. As soon as I claimed it my foot started getting very warm, numb and then probably just seconds later cured. It has been at least 12-15 years ago and I have never had the pain again!!

Another time I was terribly worried about something Christians do I have to believe it, isn’t it wrong, should II approach them? I heard in my head a voice speaking in a way that I would never talk to my self “this is not of your concern”. I know this was the Holy Spirit.

The responses were always immediate almost before I could pray the words there was a sense of relief.
 
exoflare said:
What kind of “quirks” exactly? Could you expand on this?
Click to expand...
It’s kind of hard to explain, but I will do my best. The quirks in some of their communication usually arise when matters of truth are being discussed. It’s sort of like playing dumb. Only they play dumb with each other, and they don’t seem to consider it to be playing dumb. Why play dumb? Because that is what they learn to do from the Quaran. This can happen with any person who’s religion contradicts itself. It’s sort of like relativism; it’s like agreeing with the law of non-contradiction, but making acceptions to this rule. Also there is an element of belittling each other and establishing a heirarchy, sort of like a totem pole. The more truth you cling to, the lower you are on the totem pole. The meanings of words seem to change to something only those in the discussion are aware of. Also, the use of hedges predominates. By hedge I mean something like this: Process of protecting oneself against the unfavorable without repenting; or using deceptive statements to intentionally create a “miasma of vagueness that obscures the facts.”

To some, the term farsi is not used to describe a language, but this very method of communicating that I have outlined.

I hope this helps. And if anyone reads this and understands what it means, I hope you choose to never communicate this way.
 
OrdinaryMelkite said:
What About A Miracle Coming From ISLAM’S Side, Sister Amy?

Muhammad Never Did A Miracle. Not One. Just Talked To An “Angel” Named “Gabriel” That Only HE Could See And Hear. And Who Was Verified As An Angel, NOT A Jinn, By His FIRST WiFE, Who “Verified” “Gabriel” By Having Muhammad Sit On Her Lap And Asking Him “Do You See The Angel?” When He Said “Yes,” She Then Verified To Muhammad That He Had Seen An “Angel.” :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
He did quite a few miracles, actually. And yes, his Companions saw the angel. You can’t see those miracles, and you can’t see the angel. But there’s a miracle you can still witness.
 
ADouglass said:
Would it be safe for me to infer from this question that your native tongue is farsi? For those of you without experience, check out a documentary that features native speakers of farsi, even though it is translated, you will find querks to their methods of communication, of which Sister Amy’s is an example. I noticed this manly with the way muslim women talk to each other.
Click to expand...
Nope. 🙂
 
schaick said:
I do have personnal miracles proving to me that I and every Christian following Jesus is on the right path.

One night when I was a bit younger, I started thinking about death- none existance. I was so very, very ditstraught, afraid, sobbing. I prayed for Jesus and HE immediately surrounded me with a warmth, a love, a cosy sensation that I have never felt before or since.- but then again I haven’t needed it I know HE is right here in my heart.

A healing of terrible foot pain. In the past I had plantar fasciitis on tthe other foot. So I knew what that felt like and that was cured doing special exercises. Someone was praying for different healings for other people. I realized they are praying about me without me telling them. As soon as I claimed it my foot started getting very warm, numb and then probably just seconds later cured. It has been at least 12-15 years ago and I have never had the pain again!!

Another time I was terribly worried about something Christians do I have to believe it, isn’t it wrong, should II approach them? I heard in my head a voice speaking in a way that I would never talk to my self “this is not of your concern”. I know this was the Holy Spirit.

The responses were always immediate almost before I could pray the words there was a sense of relief.
Click to expand...
The last post on the previous page tells you that Catholics don’t rely on miracles.
 
ADouglass said:
It’s kind of hard to explain, but I will do my best. The quirks in some of their communication usually arise when matters of truth are being discussed. It’s sort of like playing dumb. Only they play dumb with each other, and they don’t seem to consider it to be playing dumb. Why play dumb? Because that is what they learn to do from the Quaran. This can happen with any person who’s religion contradicts itself. It’s sort of like relativism; it’s like agreeing with the law of non-contradiction, but making acceptions to this rule. Also there is an element of belittling each other and establishing a heirarchy, sort of like a totem pole. The more truth you cling to, the lower you are on the totem pole. The meanings of words seem to change to something only those in the discussion are aware of. Also, the use of hedges predominates. By hedge I mean something like this: Process of protecting oneself against the unfavorable without repenting; or using deceptive statements to intentionally create a “miasma of vagueness that obscures the facts.”

To some, the term farsi is not used to describe a language, but this very method of communicating that I have outlined.

I hope this helps. And if anyone reads this and understands what it means, I hope you choose to never communicate this way.
Click to expand...
I think you’re referring to rhetorical devices.
 
ADouglass said:
Rhetorical devices are definately part of it, although the devices are mainly the deceptive ones.
Click to expand...
Perhaps they seem so to someone who doesn’t understand them.

One poster grasped the meaning I was getting at in my question (though he mocked it). I’d like to get people to think along certain lines, understanding the importance of miracles. I’ve not heard a critique quite like yours. It was kind of amusing, I guess, since you jumped from the use of rhetorical devices (which you called “playing dumb”) to criticizing Islam. I find language to be sophisticated when employing subtlety and nuance, and to encompass multiple meanings by a single expression.

But hey.
Okay.
 
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