Do Muslims Worship the True God?

[HolyCrusader007]

Growing up Catholic, I was taught that Muslims do not worship the true God. And this has always made sense to me. “Allah” is so vastly different (directly opposed in some ways) from the Trinitarian God as revealed to the Church, that he/it cannot be the same thing. It seems the Church traditionally viewed Islam as a heresy. The Church (and her martyrs) fought to the death to defend the true definition of God as Trinity and Christ as God.

But a Catholic friend of mine said the Catechism was “updated” to include this statement:

#841 “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

The being they worship cannot be the one God, so is this an instance of the ordinary Magisterium making a statement that could be invalidated if the facts prove otherwise?

Because:

1. Koran teaches that believing int he crucifixion and resurrection of Christ is false (Sura 4:157-159).
2. Muslims are told to fight against Christians and those who disagree with Islam (Sura 9:29)
3. Koran teaches that to believe in the divinity of Jesus is blasphemous (Sura 5:72)
4. To believe in Jesus as God’s son is false (Sura 19:35; 10:68)

Muslims are monotheists, true. But so are Bahai and the Mormons.

Hi Littlefield,

841 may be based on things like Saint Francis of Assisi outreach to the Sultan of Egypt during the Crusades,​

saintandthesultan.com/about.html

an outreach which results in the Sultan peacefully ceding Jerusalem back to Christian control, the same lands that our Catholic ancestors risked and in many cases gave their lives for. Additionally, during the after math of the 1st Crusade when the Holy Land of Jerusalem was back to its original Christian ways…there were reports of local Arab Jews and Muslims becoming friends with the newly arrived European Christians.

The Koran teaches that Jews and Christians are people of the book. The treaty of Medina, the Achtatime of Muhammad and other treaties that Muhammad arranged with Christians and Jews and others show that all non Muslims are to be treated as Equals. Christians and Jews may have very well fight with Muhammad, not alawys against. The tribes who did fight against Muhammad broke treates that were made with the Muslims. Sura 19:45, (Sura 4:157-159) and (Sura 9:29) do not show that Islam is an intolerate or violent religion. Islam is based on the entire Quran the Sunnah, and the Hadiths. I am also reminded that in Judaism, King David was a warrior. It is true that Muhammad may have been a general, some say Muhammad led battles, others say Muhammad was a master swordsmen who trained the Muslims. What is a fact though, Muhammad killed one person in his life. And what strikes me about David the warrior is that Muhammad captured the very sword that David took from Goliath. On this sword includes an Arabic inscription of a # of the Prophets in Islam which also includes Isa or what we know as Jesus Christ.

usna.edu/Users/humss/bwheeler/swords/batar.html

Also in Islam, the Muslims honor Jesus and Mary. See Sura 19. Muslims additionally honor Jesus as a prophet capable of performing miracles, many other religions view Jesus as a simple man. There is an interesting bond between Muslims and Christians when it comes to Jesus.

What stands out to me the most about Islam is that the early Muslims who were persecuted by Meccan Pagan tribes sought protection from a legendary King…the Christian King of Abyssinia. This Christian King provided refuge to early Muslims.
In a well known historical incident during the early days of Islam, some Muslims fled the persecution in Mecca and sought shelter in the neighboring Christian nation of Abyssinia. As Meccan authorities pursued to apprehend the party, they appealed to the King of Abyssinia who summoned the Muslim refugees to his court. However, upon listening to one of the refugee recite verses 19:19-21 of the Holy Quran in honor of Mary and Jesus, he felt unable to release the party to their persecutors even at risk of severing diplomatic ties.*

faithstreet.com/onfaith/2015/09/02/5-similarities-between-muslims-and-christians-we-should-celebrate/37728

There are additional similarities between Islam and Christianity according to this Muslim
*
5. The Return of Jesus in the End of Days

Perhaps the most fascinating commonality between the two religions is the belief that Jesus Christ will return during the End Times. Both religions share prophecies that his return will be in part to address immorality, conflict, and injustices during the final epoch of human history. And both religions share a messianic creed that the Messiah will put an end to religious conflict and usher an era of world peace.*

faithstreet.com/onfaith/2015/09/02/5-similarities-between-muslims-and-christians-we-should-celebrate/37728

 

[Servant19]

Hi Littlefield,

841 may be based on things like Saint Francis of Assisi outreach to the Sultan of Egypt during the Crusades,​

saintandthesultan.com/about.html

an outreach which results in the Sultan peacefully ceding Jerusalem back to Christian control, the same lands that our Catholic ancestors risked and in many cases gave their lives for. Additionally, during the after math of the 1st Crusade when the Holy Land of Jerusalem was back to its original Christian ways…there were reports of local Arab Jews and Muslims becoming friends with the newly arrived European Christians.

The Koran teaches that Jews and Christians are people of the book. The treaty of Medina, the Achtatime of Muhammad and other treaties that Muhammad arranged with Christians and Jews and others show that all non Muslims are to be treated as Equals. Christians and Jews may have very well fight with Muhammad, not alawys against. The tribes who did fight against Muhammad broke treates that were made with the Muslims. Sura 19:45, (Sura 4:157-159) and (Sura 9:29) do not show that Islam is an intolerate or violent religion. Islam is based on the entire Quran the Sunnah, and the Hadiths. I am also reminded that in Judasim, King David was a warrior. It is true that Muhammad may have been a general, some say Muhammad led battles, others say Muhammad was a master swordsmen who trained the Muslims. What is a fact though, Muhammad killed one person in his life. And what strikes me about David the warrior is that Muhammad captured the very sword that David took from Goliath. On this sword included an Arabic inspriction of all of the Prophets in Islam which also includes Isa or what we know as Jesus Christ.

usna.edu/Users/humss/bwheeler/swords/batar.html

Also in Islam, the Muslims honor Jesus and Mary. See Sura 19. Muslims additionally honor Jesus as a prophet capable of performing miracles, many other religions view Jesus as a simple man. There is an interesting bond between Muslims and Christian when it comes to Jesus.

What stands out to me the most about Islam is that the early Muslims who were persucted by Meccan Pagan tribes sought protection from a legendary King…the Christian King of Abbysina. This Christian King provided refuge to early Muslims.

In a well known historical incident during the early days of Islam, some Muslims fled the persecution in Mecca and sought shelter in the neighboring Christian nation of Abyssinia. As Meccan authorities pursued to apprehend the party, they appealed to the King of Abyssinia who summoned the Muslim refugees to his court. However, upon listening to one of the refugee recite verses 19:19-21 of the Holy Quran in honor of Mary and Jesus, he felt unable to release the party to their persecutors even at risk of severing diplomatic ties.
In a well known historical incident during the early days of Islam, some Muslims fled the persecution in Mecca and sought shelter in the neighboring Christian nation of Abyssinia. As Meccan authorities pursued to apprehend the party, they appealed to the King of Abyssinia who summoned the Muslim refugees to his court. However, upon listening to one of the refugee recite verses 19:19-21 of the Holy Quran in honor of Mary and Jesus, he felt unable to release the party to their persecutors even at risk of severing diplomatic ties.*

faithstreet.com/onfaith/2015/09/02/5-similarities-between-muslims-and-christians-we-should-celebrate/37728

There are additional simiaties between Islam and Judasim according to Muslims,
*
5. The Return of Jesus in the End of Days

Perhaps the most fascinating commonality between the two religions is the belief that Jesus Christ will return during the End Times. Both religions share prophecies that his return will be in part to address immorality, conflict, and injustices during the final epoch of human history. And both religions share a messianic creed that the Messiah will put an end to religious conflict and usher an era of world peace.*

faithstreet.com/onfaith/2015/09/02/5-similarities-between-muslims-and-christians-we-should-celebrate/37728

What a profoundly educated post

God bless you!

.

 

[JimmyDFG]

The Triune nature is issue of Cathechism. But one God belief is all People of Scripture agree on including faith of Jesus. While the very clear fact is present why so insist on following some conjectrures? And to say “Do Muslims worship the true God?” is to be nonsense. As I stated before the question should be "Do Christians Worship the True God?

hasantas, How would you explain John 14

7 If you know me, you will know my Father too. From this moment you know him and have seen him.

8 Philip said, ‘Lord, show us the Father and then we shall be satisfied.’ Jesus said to him,

9 'Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and you still do not know me? 'Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father, so how can you say, “Show us the Father”?

10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? What I say to you I do not speak of my own accord: it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his works.

 

[hasantas]

Since Jesus said Salvation is from the Jews Then Christians believe in the True God. If any Faith reject this but still call themselves Abrahamic then they have a inferior understanding about the True God.

MJ

Salvation is from God through prophets. There should be many prophets from Jews but there were used to be many prophets whom were not from Jews. For instance were Noah, Abraham, Isaac Jews?

Prophet Muhammad was descendants of Abraham and that is all. And if Muhammad was not from generation of Abraham then there would be no change in situation of Muhammad. It is not something which interest in Abraham but it is will of God. God may choose any one as a prophet.

Islam verify all faiths from prophets so it is valid. But Islam does not approve faith from people who did not get revelation directly from God. And Islam name such thoughts as conjecture which is product of imagination.

 

[hasantas]

hasantas, How would you explain John 14

7 If you know me, you will know my Father too. From this moment you know him and have seen him.

8 Philip said, ‘Lord, show us the Father and then we shall be satisfied.’ Jesus said to him,

9 'Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and you still do not know me? 'Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father, so how can you say, “Show us the Father”?

10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? What I say to you I do not speak of my own accord: it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his works.

Jesus was sent by God(Father) and that is mentioned many times in Gospels. If Jesus were sent by God then Jesus should be distinct from God. Do Jesus say anything about deity of Himself? He always talk about Father and is that not clear enough to be satisfied?

Jesus was sent by God and had performed many miracles and was supported by Holy Spirit. Apostles saw and knew these very clearly. So those would should be enough to be satisfied and Jesus declared that.

Father was in Jesus means that Jesus got revelation from God and God always manifested into soul of Jesus. Jesus did not do anything by self will but rather in order will of God.

Some prophets had wanted same thing from God to be satisfied and they wanted Father(God) to show Himself(!). If apostles were not satisfied by seeing Jesus then Jesus was not God himself but a prophet who had been sent by God.

 

[MartinJordan]

Salvation is from God through prophets.

Jesus said Salvation is from the Jews. That should be enough. Unless one doesn’t believe him.

There should be many prophets from Jews but there were used to be many prophets whom were not from Jews. For instance were Noah, Abraham, Isaac Jews?

God decided when he should reveal himself more and after the flood the world got populated again. So then he chose Abraham. And from Abraham the Father of Isaac and then to Jacob (who was renamed Israel).

Prophet Muhammad was descendants of Abraham and that is all. And if Muhammad was not from generation of Abraham then there would be no change in situation of Muhammad. It is not something which interest in Abraham but it is will of God. God may choose any one as a prophet.

The problem is that is not all. Because Abraham promised son is Isaac. Mohammed according to present Muslims is connected with Ismael but that we know is from a different mother, who was not a wife of Abraham.

Islam verify all faiths from prophets so it is valid. But Islam does not approve faith from people who did not get revelation directly from God. And Islam name such thoughts as conjecture which is product of imagination.

Jesus was a Jew, so if he is your prophet, then…again, back to his own words “Salvation is from the Jews”.

MJ

 

[TonyBS]

Jesus was sent by God(Father) and that is mentioned many times in Gospels. If Jesus were sent by God then Jesus should be distinct from God. Do Jesus say anything about deity of Himself? He always talk about Father and is that not clear enough to be satisfied?

Jesus was sent by God and had performed many miracles and was supported by Holy Spirit. Apostles saw and knew these very clearly. So those would should be enough to be satisfied and Jesus declared that.

Father was in Jesus means that Jesus got revelation from God and God always manifested into soul of Jesus. Jesus did not do anything by self will but rather in order will of God.

Some prophets had wanted same thing from God to be satisfied and they wanted Father(God) to show Himself(!). If apostles were not satisfied by seeing Jesus then Jesus was not God himself but a prophet who had been sent by God.

I think this is the more Logical Explanation of Biblical Passages.

Regards Tony

 

[JimmyDFG]

Jesus was sent by God(Father) and that is mentioned many times in Gospels. If Jesus were sent by God then Jesus should be distinct from God. Do Jesus say anything about deity of Himself? He always talk about Father and is that not clear enough to be satisfied?

Jesus was sent by God and had performed many miracles and was supported by Holy Spirit. Apostles saw and knew these very clearly. So those would should be enough to be satisfied and Jesus declared that.

Father was in Jesus means that Jesus got revelation from God and God always manifested into soul of Jesus. Jesus did not do anything by self will but rather in order will of God.

Some prophets had wanted same thing from God to be satisfied and they wanted Father(God) to show Himself(!). If apostles were not satisfied by seeing Jesus then Jesus was not God himself but a prophet who had been sent by God.

hasantas, Here are a couple of verses from the Bible shows Jesus’ deity.

John 5:18 But that only made the Jews even more intent on killing him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he spoke of God as his own Father and so made himself God’s equal.

John 8:24 That is why I told you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I AM , you will die in your sins.”

We as Catholics and Christians understand Jesus’ nature with God the Father in these verses

John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish. No one can take them out of my hand

John 10:30 The Father and I are one .”

We believe in one God in three persons. One refers to the divine nature and substance so that one God means that there is one divine nature. Three refers to the distinction of the persons who are in or who possess the one divine nature, namely, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

If one denies Jesus, that person denies God

 

[TonyBS]

hasantas, Here are a couple of verses from the Bible shows Jesus’ deity.

John 5:18 But that only made the Jews even more intent on killing him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he spoke of God as his own Father and so made himself God’s equal.

John 8:24 That is why I told you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I AM , you will die in your sins.”

We as Catholics and Christians understand Jesus’ nature with God the Father in these verses

John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish. No one can take them out of my hand

John 10:30 The Father and I are one .”

We believe in one God in three persons. One refers to the divine nature and substance so that one God means that there is one divine nature. Three refers to the distinction of the persons who are in or who possess the one divine nature, namely, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

If one denies Jesus, that person denies God

Now look at The verses logically with the example of a Human Man and His son.

If I speak of my Father as I admire His greatness, does it mean I am saying I am equal to my Father. No I am offering due praise of one I love who gave me life.

A son brought up on such a way but Mirrors the excellence of His Father and are seen as One, but that one gave life to the other can not be debated.

The Koran pointed out that we had strayed from such a logical observation of the Station of Christ. It said do not make of God Three.

The Koran is the Word of God, to ignore its guidance is our misfortune in our disobedience to our God.

Regards Tony

 

[JimmyDFG]

Now look at The verses logically with the example of a Human Man and His son.

If I speak of my Father as I admire His greatness, does it mean I am saying I am equal to my Father. No I am offering due praise of one I love who gave me life.

A son brought up on such a way but Mirrors the excellence of His Father and are seen as One, but that one gave life to the other can not be debated.

The Koran pointed out that we had strayed from such a logical observation of the Station of Christ. It said do not make of God Three.

The Koran is the Word of God, to ignore its guidance is our misfortune in our disobedience to our God.

Regards Tony

Tony, Why are you looking at it as an “example of a human and and his son”? Thinking like the statement you gave is what leads people astray and deceived

Biblically speaking, we see each of the persons in God revealed as relationally distinct and yet absolutely one in nature in manifold texts. For example, consider John 17:5, where our Lord prays on Holy Thursday:

Now glorify me, Father, with you, with the glory that I had with you before the world began.

Notice, before the creation, the Son was “with” the Father. Also, the Son addressing the Father and himself in an “I/thou” relationship is unmistakable. We have distinct persons here. “Father” and “Son” reveal a generative relationship as well. Yet, this relationship between two persons clearly has no beginning in time because it existed before the creation, from all eternity. Thus, the relational distinction is real, and personal, but as far as nature is concerned, Jesus’ words from John 10:30 come to mind: “I and the Father are one,” in that they each possess the same infinite nature.

Now Tony, you mentioned “The Koran pointed out that we had strayed from such a logical observation of the Station of Christ. It said do not make of God Three”.
With that statement IF it were turn that would mean Christianity is wrong …and if it IS true that would mean islam is wrong. With one of the two religions being wrong …where does this leave bahaism. It would be wrong regardless who was right or wrong.

If the quran is true, then islam is false. Because the quran says to trust the Gospels, but the four Gospels contradict the quran. This means the quran can’t be true if it says the gospel message is also true.

None can change allah’s words (6:34; 6:115; 18:27)
Jesus was given the gospel by allah (57:27)
The quran confirms the Gospels (5:48)
The Gospels contradict the quran

So, if the quran confirms the Gospels which say that Jesus was crucified (Matthew 27:26–31;Mark 15:15–20; Luke 23:32–34; John 19:17-18) and the quran says Jesus was not crucified (surah 4:157), then the quran is false. But if it says that the Gospels are false, then the quran denies its own teaching, and islam is false.

 

[MartinJordan]

Tony, Why are you looking at it as an “example of a human and and his son”? Thinking like the statement you gave is what leads people astray and deceived

Biblically speaking, we see each of the persons in God revealed as relationally distinct and yet absolutely one in nature in manifold texts. For example, consider John 17:5, where our Lord prays on Holy Thursday:

Now glorify me, Father, with you, with the glory that I had with you before the world began.

Notice, before the creation, the Son was “with” the Father. Also, the Son addressing the Father and himself in an “I/thou” relationship is unmistakable. We have distinct persons here. “Father” and “Son” reveal a generative relationship as well. Yet, this relationship between two persons clearly has no beginning in time because it existed before the creation, from all eternity. Thus, the relational distinction is real, and personal, but as far as nature is concerned, Jesus’ words from John 10:30 come to mind: “I and the Father are one,” in that they each possess the same infinite nature.

Now Tony, you mentioned “The Koran pointed out that we had strayed from such a logical observation of the Station of Christ. It said do not make of God Three”.
With that statement IF it were turn that would mean Christianity is wrong …and if it IS true that would mean islam is wrong. With one of the two religions being wrong …where does this leave bahaism. It would be wrong regardless who was right or wrong.

If the quran is true, then islam is false. Because the quran says to trust the Gospels, but the four Gospels contradict the quran. This means the quran can’t be true if it says the gospel message is also true.

None can change allah’s words (6:34; 6:115; 18:27)
Jesus was given the gospel by allah (57:27)
The quran confirms the Gospels (5:48)
The Gospels contradict the quran

So, if the quran confirms the Gospels which say that Jesus was crucified (Matthew 27:26–31;Mark 15:15–20; Luke 23:32–34; John 19:17-18) and the quran says Jesus was not crucified (surah 4:157), then the quran is false. But if it says that the Gospels are false, then the quran denies its own teaching, and islam is false.

Nicely done. :clapping:

MJ

 

[Servant19]

Tony, Why are you looking at it as an “example of a human and and his son”? Thinking like the statement you gave is what leads people astray and deceived

Biblically speaking, we see each of the persons in God revealed as relationally distinct and yet absolutely one in nature in manifold texts. For example, consider John 17:5, where our Lord prays on Holy Thursday:

Now glorify me, Father, with you, with the glory that I had with you before the world began.

Notice, before the creation, the Son was “with” the Father. Also, the Son addressing the Father and himself in an “I/thou” relationship is unmistakable. We have distinct persons here. “Father” and “Son” reveal a generative relationship as well. Yet, this relationship between two persons clearly has no beginning in time because it existed before the creation, from all eternity. Thus, the relational distinction is real, and personal, but as far as nature is concerned, Jesus’ words from John 10:30 come to mind: “I and the Father are one,” in that they each possess the same infinite nature.

Now Tony, you mentioned “The Koran pointed out that we had strayed from such a logical observation of the Station of Christ. It said do not make of God Three”.
With that statement IF it were turn that would mean Christianity is wrong …and if it IS true that would mean islam is wrong. With one of the two religions being wrong …where does this leave bahaism. It would be wrong regardless who was right or wrong.

If the quran is true, then islam is false. Because the quran says to trust the Gospels, but the four Gospels contradict the quran. This means the quran can’t be true if it says the gospel message is also true.

None can change allah’s words (6:34; 6:115; 18:27)
Jesus was given the gospel by allah (57:27)
The quran confirms the Gospels (5:48)
The Gospels contradict the quran

So, if the quran confirms the Gospels which say that Jesus was crucified (Matthew 27:26–31;Mark 15:15–20; Luke 23:32–34; John 19:17-18) and the quran says Jesus was not crucified (surah 4:157), then the quran is false. But if it says that the Gospels are false, then the quran denies its own teaching, and islam is false.

This post simply proves without doubt that there has been little to no reading of Baha’i posts in the last 3-4 months or so.

Makes us wonder why we would bother continuously answering questions only for us to be accused of deflecting, changing goalposts, not answering or being “vague”

Please, continue in your own certainty that you have ownership of Truth.
Please don’t let us get in your way dear friend

For anyone else reading this, if you have it in your own heart and mind that you are right and every non-Christian on earth is wrong, please don’t ask questions to Bahais or Muslims.

God wants sincerity, not fundamentalists.

Thankyou for reading

.

.

 

[worldcitizen]

All the contradictions are in people’s minds not in the Divine Word.

There is no contradiction between the Bible or the Quran whatsoever. It’s the interpretations placed upon the Word by men which create the conflict not God.

The trinity is nowhere mentioned in the Bible or the Quran. It is a doctrine created by the early church. The early church also created the doctrine that it was a divine institution which also is nowhere mentioned in the Word.

That the Words of God and the word of man contradict should come as no surprise.

Leaving out the Church and Islam’s Mullas/scholars the Bible and Quran are in complete agreeance which proves that it is only men that create the contradictions and paradoxes.

The reason why Baha’is have been able to unite all religions is they reject the man made interpretations of the Gospels and the Quran and only accept the interpretations of a Manifestation of God.

Once we go outside interpretations of the Manifestations of God we get errors and inconsistencies which are of men. Thus the disagreements. Thus the division in religion. Thus the sects.

 

[hasantas]

=JimmyDFG;13757614]hasantas, Here are a couple of verses from the Bible shows Jesus’ deity.

John 5:18 But that only made the Jews even more intent on killing him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he spoke of God as his own Father and so made himself God’s equal.

Look at following.

19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Jesus answered people who misunderstood Him in next verses. Jesus explain the accuse of equality with God. Jesus did not say that He was equal in deity with God but about some authorities which Father gave or taught Him. Notice the underlined parts. Particularly those parts:

“because he is the Son of man.” , “I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.”

If you understand the accuse of people for Jesus to be equal with God(attention that is not claim of Jesus but accuse of people) then you should understand that directly: because he is the Son of man

 

[worldcitizen]

Look at following.

19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Jesus answered people who misunderstood Him in next verses. Jesus explain the accuse of equality with God. Jesus did not say that He was equal in deity with God but about some authorities which Father gave or taught Him. Notice the underlined parts. Particularly those parts:

“because he is the Son of man.” , “I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.”

If you understand the accuse of people for Jesus to be equal with God(attention that is not claim of Jesus but accuse of people) then you should understand that directly: because he is the Son of man

Awesome!!

 

[hasantas]

John 8:24 That is why I told you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I AM , you will die in your sins.”

We as Catholics and Christians understand Jesus’ nature with God the Father in these verses

If you look at John 8:23 you will see Jesus had long discussion with Pharisees and Jesus tried to explain that He was sent by father just:

16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. John 7

And Jesus asnwered the in the next verses what mean I AM.

25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.

So Jesus is the “Even the same” what he declared before. Previously Jesus said he was sent by God but not God himself!

And next…

26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.

27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.

28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

 

[hasantas]

Jesus said Salvation is from the Jews. That should be enough. Unless one doesn’t believe him.

God decided when he should reveal himself more and after the flood the world got populated again. So then he chose Abraham. And from Abraham the Father of Isaac and then to Jacob (who was renamed Israel).

The problem is that is not all. Because Abraham promised son is Isaac. Mohammed according to present Muslims is connected with Ismael but that we know is from a different mother, who was not a wife of Abraham.

Jesus was a Jew, so if he is your prophet, then…again, back to his own words “Salvation is from the Jews”.

MJ

Hagar: In the Bible, the Egyptian servant of Abraham’s wife, Sarah. With Abraham she had a son, Ishmael.

Salvation is from Jews. Yes that is true. Jesus discussed with Samaritan woman. Salvation is from God through prophets and Jesus implied prophets from Jews and also for Himself.

19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.

25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he. John 4

 

[hasantas]

John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish. No one can take them out of my hand

John 10:30 The Father and I are one .”

We believe in one God in three persons. One refers to the divine nature and substance so that one God means that there is one divine nature. Three refers to the distinction of the persons who are in or who possess the one divine nature, namely, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

If one denies Jesus, that person denies God

Why you skip 10:29. The answer is in it.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. John 10

Muslim do not deny Jesus.

You say if someone deny Jesus so deny God. You see the difference between Jesus and God!

 

[TonyBS]

Why you skip 10:29. The answer is in it.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. John 10

Muslim do not deny Jesus.

You say if someone deny Jesus so deny God. You see the difference between Jesus and God!

Thank you for your posts.

At one time I decided to give all the passages in the Bible to my mother that showed where Jesus was not God.

After a while I had many pages of quotes to start writing my letter. I started but did not write more than a paragrapth. I kept looking at the compiled evidence and said if it is so easy/obvious to see why an I writing this letter?

No amount of argument will change this view. Only an event with God and ones heart will initiate any change in thinking.

It is The same here. May all our hearts find our God.

Regards Tony

 

[HolyCrusader007]

What a profoundly educated post

God bless you!

.

Well thank you very much my friend. That was a nice thing for you to say, God bless you.