Do non-Catholic churches have the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven?

[ufamtobie]

Matt 16: 16-20) [16] Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. [17] And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. [18] And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. [19] And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever** thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou** shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven. [20] Then he commanded his disciples, that they should tell no one that he was Jesus the Christ.

The definition of “Thee” = archaic or dialect form of you, as the singular…

The Definition of “Thou”= archaic or dialect form of you, as the singular.

“I say to thee…:” “Thee” This means only to Peter not to any other Apostles

“And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of Heaven…” The keys were only given to St. Peter, and not to any other Apostle or church, for no other church existed, but the Catholic Church. Amen.

And whatsoever Thou shalt bind…" “Thou” Means only St. Peter can bind and no other Apostle.

“And whatsoever THOU shalt loose upon earth…” “Thou” means only St. Peter can loose.

Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. “Thou” means that Simon Peter, was referring to Jesus Christ, and not to the Apostles.

This was a one on one conversation between Jesus Christ and St. Peter re: the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, The other Apostles were only present / by standers to it.

Jesus Christ, gave the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven to only one of His Apostles because this will bring about order in the Catholic Church. Imagine, if every Apostle had the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven this would or could cause chaos within the Catholic Church.

NOTE: Jesus Christ states twice “Upon Earth” before saying “In Heaven” so therefore the keys are now on earth, St. Peter is no longer on earth but his successor Pope Francis, is:thumbsup:

Many big name Protestants churches such as Lutherans etc… say they have the Keys to bind and loose but this is so untrue because the fact is clear here that, Jesus Gave the Keys only to St. Peter, in the "Singular" and not to any other Apostle, not even the Apostle John, whom Jesus Loved, so why would Jesus Christ give the Keys to any other church?

Protestants / Lutherans say all the Bishops have the same Authority as the Bishop of Rome, yes, all Bishops have authority to some degree, but they don’t have the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven to bind and loose only One Bishop / Pope the successor of St. Peter, has the Keys, to do so. Amen.

Follow the one who holds the Keys, and you will be following the True Church Jesus Christ established over 2000 years ago and counting.

Ufam Tobie

 

[Starrsmother]

Here is what I believe to be true and what our own Pope Francis seems to have more or less intimated recently in some of his remarks (that he always takes heat for). Peter, the first pope, was absolutely given the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven by Our Lord. In my mind, the “keys” are obviously not a set of actual keys that unlock actual gates in heaven. Rather,they represent the beliefs, the sacraments–including Eucharist and confession— the Mass, the rich heritage and the graces that comprise our Catholic faith. As Catholic Christians, we have access to the sum total of these wonderful gifts. If we use them as Jesus wanted and planned, Catholics have a sort of advantage in their journey to heaven–an easier time of it or however you want to put it. Other religions–such as protestant Christians–have access to only some of the gifts that Catholics have. For instance, they may have access to a legitimate baptism, but certainly don’t have access to confession, communion or confirmation. Some protestants faiths–such as mormons–don’t even have access to a baptism that is recognized by the Catholic Church. Other people–say aboriginals deep in the continent of Africa—may never even have the opportunity to hear of or accept any form of Christianity at all.

As Pope Francis said, all souls inherently search for good–even atheists. Can an atheist get to heaven? I have no idea as it certainly hasn’t been revealed to me and in principal at least, it would seem that if you don’t even believe that God exists in the first place, that it might be hard to land in heaven–but maybe God provides a way for them to–though to my mortal mind, it sounds like it would be rough. BUT does God actually plan on sending entire continents of aboriginal people to hell for the crime of having been born in the middle of a jungle to parents who have never known about baptism or Jesus? I don’t think so as I don’t believe that a loving and just God would create millions of people just to have a huge group to throw into hell.

Protestant Christians are baptized just like Catholics are. My own mother-in-law, now deceased, was First Christian and was one of the most God fearing, saintly women that I’ve ever known. As she once told me when we were talking religion: “We’re all trying to get to the same place–we’re just not all on the same path. But we hope we come out in the same city.” I sort of think that their path is harder. But I do think that righteous, God-fearing Christians of all sects, who work hard at living the right kind of life to the best of their ability will be rewarded in heaven. However, since they don’t have access to all that we do as Catholics–such as confession–their struggle is more difficult–though not necessarily impossible, as all things are possible through God!.

As to what I refer to personally as the “looney-churches”----Mormons, JW’s, and 7th Day Adventists, many of whose actual faith is based on things like believing that Jesus was a product of God the Father and Mary having sex (Mormon) or whose main pillar of belief and agreement is a profound hatred for Catholics and the pope (7th Day Adventists)–I just don’t know what to think. I hope Jesus will let me in on His plan after I die and (hopefully) meet Him face to face.

Jesus said that to whom much was given, much would be expected. I think that definitely applies to Catholics. I worry more about we Catholics who basically have been given so much–right down to the keys to the kingdom but still don’t live as Jesus told us to in order to be saved. I suspect that Jesus will be far more critical of us if we fail miserably in life than He will be to good, Christian, righteous people who were born and raised as Baptists or were never introduced to anything except paganism or the buddha , and whose main flaw is simply ignorance. Just my opinion.:yup:

 

[1ke]

While the answer to your question is “no” the reasoning you present above does not prove anything.

Jesus did not speak English. If one is going to do etymology on the words, one must use the Aramaic Matthew was originally written in, maybe the Greek, certainly not the English.

I encourage you to read Upon This Rock by Steven Ray for a very detailed discussion of this topic.

 

[nhamm10]

Here is what I believe to be true and what our own Pope Francis seems to have more or less intimated recently in some of his remarks (that he always takes heat for). Peter, the first pope, was absolutely given the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven by Our Lord. In my mind, the “keys” are obviously not a set of actual keys that unlock actual gates in heaven. Rather,they represent the beliefs, the sacraments–including Eucharist and confession— the Mass, the rich heritage and the graces that comprise our Catholic faith. As Catholic Christians, we have access to the sum total of these wonderful gifts. If we use them as Jesus wanted and planned, Catholics have a sort of advantage in their journey to heaven–an easier time of it or however you want to put it. Other religions–such as protestant Christians–have access to only some of the gifts that Catholics have. For instance, they may have access to a legitimate baptism, but certainly don’t have access to confession, communion or confirmation. Some protestants faiths–such as mormons–don’t even have access to a baptism that is recognized by the Catholic Church. Other people–say aboriginals deep in the continent of Africa—may never even have the opportunity to hear of or accept any form of Christianity at all.

As Pope Francis said, all souls inherently search for good–even atheists. Can an atheist get to heaven? I have no idea as it certainly hasn’t been revealed to me and in principal at least, it would seem that if you don’t even believe that God exists in the first place, that it might be hard to land in heaven–but maybe God provides a way for them to–though to my mortal mind, it sounds like it would be rough. BUT does God actually plan on sending entire continents of aboriginal people to hell for the crime of having been born in the middle of a jungle to parents who have never known about baptism or Jesus? I don’t think so as I don’t believe that a loving and just God would create millions of people just to have a huge group to throw into hell.

Protestant Christians are baptized just like Catholics are. My own mother-in-law, now deceased, was First Christian and was one of the most God fearing, saintly women that I’ve ever known. As she once told me when we were talking religion: “We’re all trying to get to the same place–we’re just not all on the same path. But we hope we come out in the same city.” I sort of think that their path is harder. But I do think that righteous, God-fearing Christians of all sects, who work hard at living the right kind of life to the best of their ability will be rewarded in heaven. However, since they don’t have access to all that we do as Catholics–such as confession–their struggle is more difficult–though not necessarily impossible, as all things are possible through God!.

As to what I refer to personally as the “looney-churches”----Mormons, JW’s, and 7th Day Adventists, many of whose actual faith is based on things like believing that Jesus was a product of God the Father and Mary having sex (Mormon) or whose main pillar of belief and agreement is a profound hatred for Catholics and the pope (7th Day Adventists)–I just don’t know what to think. I hope Jesus will let me in on His plan after I die and (hopefully) meet Him face to face.

Jesus said that to whom much was given, much would be expected. I think that definitely applies to Catholics. I worry more about we Catholics who basically have been given so much–right down to the keys to the kingdom but still don’t live as Jesus told us to in order to be saved. I suspect that Jesus will be far more critical of us if we fail miserably in life than He will be to good, Christian, righteous people who were born and raised as Baptists or were never introduced to anything except paganism or the buddha , and whose main flaw is simply ignorance. Just my opinion.:yup:

Exactly how I feel!

 

[L_Marshall]

I believe it’s generally accepted that the “Keys to the Kingdom” are the Pope’s ability to bind and loose.

That being said, other Churches would not have them.

 

[JonNC]

Matt 16: 16-20) [16] Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. [17] And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. [18] And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. [19] And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever** thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou** shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven. [20] Then he commanded his disciples, that they should tell no one that he was Jesus the Christ.

The definition of “Thee” = archaic or dialect form of you, as the singular…

The Definition of “Thou”= archaic or dialect form of you, as the singular.

“I say to thee…:” “Thee” This means only to Peter not to any other Apostles

“And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of Heaven…” The keys were only given to St. Peter, and not to any other Apostle or church, for no other church existed, but the Catholic Church. Amen.

And whatsoever Thou shalt bind…" “Thou” Means only St. Peter can bind and no other Apostle.

“And whatsoever THOU shalt loose upon earth…” “Thou” means only St. Peter can loose.

Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. “Thou” means that Simon Peter, was referring to Jesus Christ, and not to the Apostles.

This was a one on one conversation between Jesus Christ and St. Peter re: the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, The other Apostles were only present / by standers to it.

Jesus Christ, gave the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven to only one of His Apostles because this will bring about order in the Catholic Church. Imagine, if every Apostle had the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven this would or could cause chaos within the Catholic Church.

NOTE: Jesus Christ states twice “Upon Earth” before saying “In Heaven” so therefore the keys are now on earth, St. Peter is no longer on earth but his successor Pope Francis, is:thumbsup:

Many big name Protestants churches such as Lutherans etc… say they have the Keys to bind and loose but this is so untrue because the fact is clear here that, Jesus Gave the Keys only to St. Peter, in the "Singular" and not to any other Apostle, not even the Apostle John, whom Jesus Loved, so why would Jesus Christ give the Keys to any other church?

Protestants / Lutherans say all the Bishops have the same Authority as the Bishop of Rome, yes, all Bishops have authority to some degree, but they don’t have the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven to bind and loose only One Bishop / Pope the successor of St. Peter, has the Keys, to do so. Amen.

Follow the one who holds the Keys, and you will be following the True Church Jesus Christ established over 2000 years ago and counting.

Ufam Tobie

John 20 * He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. 22When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained. *

While not claiming to know the Aramaic or the Greek, the DR uses the term, “them” (plural), which relates to the term, “you” (which therefore is also plural).
He says “I also send you”, sending them out equally, without mention of a hierarchy.
He gives them the power to bind and loose, without mention of a hierarchy.

While Apostolic Succession is desirable and important, it is the apostolic teaching that is of greatest importance, and that is that the Keys were received for the entire Church, and not for one bishop in one see.

Jon

 

[Rete]

No. The successors of St. Peter and his apostles have the keys.

 

[Neofight]

Each of us have the keys…it’s up to us whether we chose to unlock the door and enter.

 

[R_C]

the Keys were received for the entire Church

No. The successors of St. Peter and his apostles have the keys.

Each of us have the keys

Does anyone begin to grasp why would Christ have established a visible Church with chosen shepherds in charge of infallibly teaching the faith?

By ourselves we can’t even understand this one tiny passage, so clear in its content…how could we ever figure out God’s will and the fullness of the Christian doctrine on our own?

 

[bill99]

i have always thought the keys were symbolic and was actually the preaching peter did witch opened the doors of heaven.

 

[bibleway]

Matt 16: 16-20) [16] Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. [17] And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. [18] And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. [19] And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever** thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou** shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven. [20] Then he commanded his disciples, that they should tell no one that he was Jesus the Christ.

The definition of “Thee” = archaic or dialect form of you, as the singular…

The Definition of “Thou”= archaic or dialect form of you, as the singular.

“I say to thee…:” “Thee” This means only to Peter not to any other Apostles

“And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of Heaven…” The keys were only given to St. Peter, and not to any other Apostle or church, for no other church existed, but the Catholic Church. Amen.

And whatsoever Thou shalt bind…" “Thou” Means only St. Peter can bind and no other Apostle.

“And whatsoever THOU shalt loose upon earth…” “Thou” means only St. Peter can loose.

Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. “Thou” means that Simon Peter, was referring to Jesus Christ, and not to the Apostles.

This was a one on one conversation between Jesus Christ and St. Peter re: the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, The other Apostles were only present / by standers to it.

Jesus Christ, gave the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven to only one of His Apostles because this will bring about order in the Catholic Church. Imagine, if every Apostle had the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven this would or could cause chaos within the Catholic Church.

NOTE: Jesus Christ states twice “Upon Earth” before saying “In Heaven” so therefore the keys are now on earth, St. Peter is no longer on earth but his successor Pope Francis, is:thumbsup:

Many big name Protestants churches such as Lutherans etc… say they have the Keys to bind and loose but this is so untrue because the fact is clear here that, Jesus Gave the Keys only to St. Peter, in the "Singular" and not to any other Apostle, not even the Apostle John, whom Jesus Loved, so why would Jesus Christ give the Keys to any other church?

Protestants / Lutherans say all the Bishops have the same Authority as the Bishop of Rome, yes, all Bishops have authority to some degree, but they don’t have the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven to bind and loose only One Bishop / Pope the successor of St. Peter, has the Keys, to do so. Amen.

Follow the one who holds the Keys, and you will be following the True Church Jesus Christ established over 2000 years ago and counting.

Ufam Tobie

Exodus 20:2
I am the Lord thy God, which have brought **thee **out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Obviously talking about all of the children of Israel.

Exodus 13:6
Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, and in the seventh day shall be a feast to the Lord.
A command to all of the children of Israel, not just Moses.

The keys to the kingdom of heaven are the words of Jesus and these were given to all of the apostles and us also.

John 8
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

When we continue in Jesus words (keys to the kingdom) we will be Christ’s disciples
“indeed” which means really, by not just our words but by our actions and we shall know the truth (Jesus) and He will set us free (from our sins) not Peter.

bibleway

 

[bibleway]

Does anyone begin to grasp why would Christ have established a visible Church with chosen shepherds in charge of infallibly teaching the faith?

By ourselves we can’t even understand this one tiny passage, so clear in its content…how could we ever figure out God’s will and the fullness of the Christian doctrine on our own?

John6
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[mskejj]

i have always thought the keys were symbolic and was actually the preaching peter did witch opened the doors of heaven.

Read Isaiah 22 and you will see that in the Davidic Kingdom there is an office of the one who held the keys of the kingdom…the prime minister…the high priest according to Jewish literature. He had absolute authority when the king was away. He was the “sure peg” that held the house of Judah together. (House meaning the Temple of God). He was called Papa and was a “father to the house of Judah”. He had the authority to “open and shut” which is the same language as “bind and loose”. For Jewish eyes, that meant he had teaching authority, ability to forgive sins on the people’s behalf to God, and the ability to exclude someone from the Temple.

This passage is a “type” which points to the New Prime Minister in the Kingdom of God…the one who will hold the keys to the kingdom and will be over the House of God on earth. Jesus, the King, will give those keys to Peter in Matthew 16.

 

[mskejj]

Each of us have the keys…it’s up to us whether we chose to unlock the door and enter.

See my response above…this is not how the Jews would have understood this passage in Matthew 16 nor how the Church understands it.

 

[CarolNoel]

Read Isaiah 22 and you will see that in the Davidic Kingdom there is an office of the one who held the keys of the kingdom…the prime minister…the high priest according to Jewish literature. He had absolute authority when the king was away. He was the “sure peg” that held the house of Judah together. (House meaning the Temple of God). He was called Papa and was a “father to the house of Judah”. He had the authority to “open and shut” which is the same language as “bind and loose”. For Jewish eyes, that meant he had teaching authority, ability to forgive sins on the people’s behalf to God, and the ability to exclude someone from the Temple.

This passage is a “type” which points to the New Prime Minister in the Kingdom of God…the one who will hold the keys to the kingdom and will be over the House of God on earth. Jesus, the King, will give those keys to Peter in Matthew 16.

Yes! Exactly! Right on. It is important to know some Jewish history.

 

[porthos11]

Not even the Catholic Church as a whole holds the keys. The keys are held by the Pope.

 

[ufamtobie]

John 20 * He said therefore to them*

again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. 22When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

While not claiming to know the Aramaic or the Greek, the DR uses the term, “them” (plural), which relates to the term, “you” (which therefore is also plural).
He says “I also send you”, sending them out equally, without mention of a hierarchy.
He gives them the power to bind and loose, without mention of a hierarchy.

While Apostolic Succession is desirable and important, it is the apostolic teaching that is of greatest importance, and that is that the Keys were received for the entire Church, and not for one bishop in one see.

Jon

JonNC, I understand what you are saying, but you are wrong here, let me tell you why. in (Matt16:16-20) Jesus mentions the Name of Peter, therefore Jesus Christ was only speaking / referring to St. Peter, and not to the rest of the Apostles, common sense should tell you this.

JonNC, lets say we were in a group of 13 and I said to you JonNC I give you the keys to my home… JonNC, am I speaking to the others in the group or to you only? It is only common sense and common sense to the others in the groups that I am speaking to only you. JonNC, why is it common sense, again, because I mentioned your NAME in the Singular. Amen

JonNC, Read Matt 16:16 -20)
16Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. 17And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. 18And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven. 20Then he commanded his disciples, that they should tell no one that he was Jesus the Christ. JonNC, (Matt 16:16-20) Jesus Christ is establishing a Hierarchy here.

JonNC, (John 20: 19-23) is entirely different, from (Matt 16: 16-20) here is why. Because in (John 20: 19-23) Jesus Christ mentioned no ones name in the Singular, Jesus Christ referred to all of them here, as “You” as a group of His Apostles. Amen

JonNC, re-read (John 20: 19-23) Below and tell me if you read / hear any of the apostles names mentioned in the singular?..

John 20: 19Now when it was late that same day, the first of the week, and the doors were shut, where the disciples were gathered together, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them: Peace be to you. 20And when he had said this, he shewed them his hands and his side. The disciples therefore were glad, when they saw the Lord. 21He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. 22When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

JonNC, in (John 20: 19 -23) above did you read / hear any Apostles name being mentioned in the Singular? No! However, JonNC, you did read / hear “He showed** them **His hands and His side.” This being true since there was no Apostles names being mentioned here in the Singular the “YOU” here in this Bible Verse that you read and hear, refers to the group in that room. Amen

JonNC, John 20: 19-23 is referring to the entire group of the Apostles and their future successors Because Jesus Christ established His Church and no other church to go on until He Comes again. Amen

JonNC, tell me is their a hierarchy in heaven? If you say no, then you are saying all in heaven are equal to God in heaven then why should we worship Him. JonNC, if you say there is a Hierarchy in Heaven, then you are correct, God being above all, who we Worship. However JonNC, I would like to know from you, is there a Hierarchy in Heaven?

JonNC, since there must be a Hierarchy in heaven their must be a Hierarchy in Jesus Christ Church he established over 2000 years ago and counting, why? To establish Order! Amen

JonNC, Many will read this post, that you are reading right now, but I’m not referring this post to them, because I did not mentioned their name, I mentioned your name in the Singular. Amen

Ufam Tobie

 

[JonNC]

JonNC, I understand what you are saying, but you are wrong here, let me tell you why. in (Matt16:16-20) Jesus mentions the Name of Peter, therefore Jesus Christ was only speaking / referring to St. Peter, and not to the rest of the Apostles, common sense should tell you this.

JonNC, lets say we were in a group of 13 and I said to you JonNC I give you the keys to my home… JonNC, am I speaking to the others in the group or to you only? It is only common sense and common sense to the others in the groups that I am speaking to only you. JonNC, why is it common sense, again, because I mentioned your NAME in the Singular. Amen

JonNC, Read Matt 16:16 -20)
16Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. 17And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. 18And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven. 20Then he commanded his disciples, that they should tell no one that he was Jesus the Christ. JonNC, (Matt 16:16-20) Jesus Christ is establishing a Hierarchy here.

JonNC, (John 20: 19-23) is entirely different, from (Matt 16: 16-20) here is why. Because in (John 20: 19-23) Jesus Christ mentioned no ones name in the Singular, Jesus Christ referred to all of them here, as “You” as a group of His Apostles. Amen

JonNC, re-read (John 20: 19-23) Below and tell me if you read / hear any of the apostles names mentioned in the singular?..

John 20: 19Now when it was late that same day, the first of the week, and the doors were shut, where the disciples were gathered together, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them: Peace be to you. 20And when he had said this, he shewed them his hands and his side. The disciples therefore were glad, when they saw the Lord. 21He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. 22When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

JonNC, in (John 20: 19 -23) above did you read / hear any Apostles name being mentioned in the Singular? No! However, JonNC, you did read / hear “He showed** them **His hands and His side.” This being true since there was no Apostles names being mentioned here in the Singular the “YOU” here in this Bible Verse that you read and hear, refers to the group in that room. Amen

JonNC, John 20: 19-23 is referring to the entire group of the Apostles and their future successors Because Jesus Christ established His Church and no other church to go on until He Comes again. Amen

JonNC, tell me is their a hierarchy in heaven? If you say no, then you are saying all in heaven are equal to God in heaven then why should we worship Him. JonNC, if you say there is a Hierarchy in Heaven, then you are correct, God being above all, who we Worship. However JonNC, I would like to know from you, is there a Hierarchy in Heaven?

JonNC, since there must be a Hierarchy in heaven their must be a Hierarchy in Jesus Christ Church he established over 2000 years ago and counting, why? To establish Order! Amen

JonNC, Many will read this post, that you are reading right now, but I’m not referring this post to them, because I did not mentioned their name, I mentioned your name in the Singular. Amen

Ufam Tobie

The reason He mentions no names in John 20 is because they are equal in rank, equal in their responsibilities to bind and loose, to make disciples of all nations, etc.
Peter initially receives the keys, but the power of the keys belongs to the Church, to mind and loose, etc.

There is no problem with hierarchy. There are times I wish the LCMS were more hierarchical, and less congregational, but scripture clearly doesn’t give to St. Peter anymore than a primacy, which was observed and honored in the early Church.

Jon

 

[ufamtobie]

While the answer to your question is “no” the reasoning you present above does not prove anything.

Jesus did not speak English. If one is going to do etymology on the words, one must use the Aramaic Matthew was originally written in, maybe the Greek, certainly not the English.

I encourage you to read Upon This Rock by Steven Ray for a very detailed discussion of this topic.

1ke,

In Matt 16: 16-20 Jesus Christ mentioned the Name of Peter, in the singular therefore it is Important and proves that Jesus Christ was starting a Hierarchy in His One Church, Which Peter was the Head / first Pope, for the Keys of the Kingdom was given to St. Peter only at that time and then to his successors… How can you say the above proves nothing?

Many protestant churches if not all, say, that they have the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven to bind and loose, that is so untrue, how so? Well, if Jesus Christ gave the Keys to only St. Peter and not the rest of the Apostles, how can any other church say they have the Keys to the Kingdom of heaven?

Ufam Tobie

 

[JonNC]

1ke,

In Matt 16: 16-20 Jesus Christ mentioned the Name of Peter, in the singular therefore it is Important and proves that Jesus Christ was starting a Hierarchy in His One Church, Which Peter was the Head / first Pope, for the Keys of the Kingdom was given to St. Peter only at that time and then to his successors… How can you say the above proves nothing?

Many protestant churches if not all, say, that they have the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven to bind and loose, that is so untrue, how so? Well, if Jesus Christ gave the Keys to only St. Peter and not the rest of the Apostles, how can any other church say they have the Keys to the Kingdom of heaven?

Ufam Tobie

Ufam,

Why do you think you are the only one who has St. Peter?

Does Orthodoxy have the keys?

Jon