Do only Muslims reject the historical crucifixion?

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TheSufi said:
He hasn’t revealed himself to over 5 billion plus living people in the world. So I’m not worried. 😃
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You should be (and everyone else) because our Eternal home is in the Kingdom of Heaven not earth. And if we’re not careful (that includes Christians) we could end up LOSING our Salvation.

Colossian 3: 3 - 15- NIV

Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6 **Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. 7 You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8 But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9 Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. 11 Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.

12 Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. 13 Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. 14 And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.

15 **Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. **16 Let the message of Christ dwell among you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom through psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit, singing to God with gratitude in your hearts. 17 And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

MJ**
 
dronald said:
I recognize that the Qur’an states that Jesus was not crucified but was a product of divine intervention. I was wondering if there are any historical sources which also deny Jesus dying on the cross?

I decided to wiki the historicity of Jesus and when it came to the crucifixion all I found was this:

Although there is disagreement about issues such as the calling of disciples, the agreement on crucifixion is very widespread, and most scholars in the third quest for the historical Jesus consider the crucifixion indisputable.[23][59][60][61] Eddy and Boyd state that it is now “firmly established” that there is non-Christian confirmation of the crucifixion of Jesus.[24]Bart Ehrman states that the crucifixion of Jesus on the orders of Pontius Pilate is the most certain element about him.[60]John Dominic Crossan states that the crucifixion of Jesus is as certain as any historical fact can be.[23]John P. Meier views the crucifixion of Jesus as historical fact and states that based on the criterion of embarrassment Christians would not have invented the painful death of their leader.[61] Meier states that a number of other criteria, e.g. the criterion of multiple attestation (i.e. confirmation by more than one source), the criterion of coherence (i.e. that it fits with other historical elements) and the criterion of rejection (i.e. that it is not disputed by ancient sources) help establish the crucifixion of Jesus as a historical event.[62]

Although scholars agree on the historicity of the crucifixion, they differ on the reason and context for it, e.g. both E. P. Sanders and Paula Fredriksen support the historicity of the crucifixion, but contend that Jesus did not foretell his own crucifixion, and that his prediction of the crucifixion is a Christian story.[63]Geza Vermes also views the crucifixion as a historical event but provides his own explanation and background for it.

It seems that the Roman historian tacitus, Jewish historian Josephus and even the Jews (and of course Christians) went into the second century certain that Jesus was crucified:

Tacitus states" Nero fastened the guilt . . . on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of . . . Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome"

What is the extreme penalty?

Some of what Josephus said can be believed to have added words, but not when describing the crucifixion:

About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he . . . wrought surprising feats. . . . He was the Christ. When Pilate . . .condemned him to be crucified, those who had . . . come to love him did not give up their affection for him. On the third day he appeared . . . restored to life. . . . And the tribe of Christians . . . has . . . not disappeared.

So my question remains, are Muslims the only ones who accept Christ’s existance but deny His crucifixion?
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Please see the QUOTE at the bottom of my page. Please note the words are written in RED in the Bible. RED= Direct Jesus quote. So pray that Gods “Will” be done for them.

Jill
 
MartinJordan said:
You should be (and everyone else) because our Eternal home is in the Kingdom of Heaven not earth. And if we’re not careful (that includes Christians) we could end up LOSING our Salvation.

Colossian 3: 3 - 15- NIV

Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. 7 You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8 But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9 Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. 11 Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.

12 Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. 13 Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. 14 And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.

15 **Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. **16 Let the message of Christ dwell among you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom through psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit, singing to God with gratitude in your hearts. 17 And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

MJ

I still don’t believe Jesus is God. As quotes from Paul is going to convince me Jesus is God.
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MartinJordan said:
It’s clear, you are blocking out everything that has been revealed. I pray for you.

MJ
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And I can say the exact same thing about you. God revealed the Quran to all, and sent Prophet Muhammad as a mercy to the world, yet you block your heart from seeing the truth therein. Come and you too, can experience God directly and not through a middle man. I too, will pray for you.
 
Check this out from Mara Bar-Serapion written around 73ad:

What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise king? It was just after that their kingdom was abolished.

Scholars accept that this is from another non-Christian source affirming Christ’s death.
 
dronald said:
The gate certainly is wide. (matthew 7:13)

Also, Matthew 24
14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

We’re getting closer, but you’re right. Not quite there yet.
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Muslims unfortunately disregard Christ’s message (which is their right I guess 🤷). However, by choosing to believe in their own version of Jesus (who was apparently replaced by someone who’s name is a complete mystery and unsubstantiated I must add-was crucified instead.

Also let’s not forget Matthew 28:18- Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me". Just before he ascended in to Heaven. :highprayer:

MJ
 
dronald said:
Check this out from Mara Bar-Serapion written around 73ad:

What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise king? It was just after that their kingdom was abolished.

Scholars accept that this is from another non-Christian source affirming Christ’s death.
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:yup:

MJ
 
I have a question for the sufi, the quran says the desciples of Jesus would be victorious to the day of judgement.

Now however we interpret “victorious” or interpret “day of judgement,” I would ask who were the victorious ones between the time of Muhammad and Jesus?
 
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