Do only Muslims reject the historical crucifixion?

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MartinJordan said:
Then wouldn’t it be fair to ask whether Mohammed ever spoke about Paul? Can Muslims point out where their prophet mentions Paul? I would like to see it.

MJ
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:thankyou: Excellent point! Muslims say Paul never met Christ. Well, neither did Mohammad.
Skadi said:
I think it’s possible that someone died in his place, Pilot sure seamed sympathetic to Jesus. I think it’s atleast a possibility, as I’m not a believer in him being resurrected.
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I accept that many people don’t believe in the Resurrection. But the stand-in scenario for the crucifixion doesn’t pass the smell test. Jesus’ mother, other family members, Mary Mag and some of His closest associates witnessed His death. For believers, it makes God a HUGE deceiver to mislead sincere people like that.
 
LtTony said:
:thankyou: Excellent point! Muslims say Paul never met Christ. Well, neither did Mohammad.
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You’re welcome. 😃 Apparently Mohammed also never even spoke about Paul so that’s also very integral in refuting “modern” Muslims complaints about Paul.

MJ
 
MartinJordan said:
Once again you are taking our Gospels and fixing it OUT OF CONTEXT and proof texting. It appears that you are showing that Islam just can’t stand on its own.

Also bring the proof that Mohammed knew that heretical groups did have texts that deny Jesus’ crucifixion. That means Step by step factual basis and analysis from Islamic sources from the time of Mohammed and just after his death.

MJ
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We don’t know everything that he knew or said. Just like we don’t know everything that Jesus knew, or said.
 
MartinJordan said:
And where are the earliest Islamic writings that state that when the final canons were finalized the “false” teachings were taught? I’m still waiting for this answer…:rolleyes:

Or do we need to depend on outside Islam for the allegations. Can’t Islam stand on its own?

MJ
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Sure Islam can stand on its own. This is why Prophet Muhammad never taught his followers to study the bible, because Islam can stand on its own.
 
MartinJordan said:
You’re welcome. 😃 Apparently Mohammed also never even spoke about Paul so that’s also very integral in refuting “modern” Muslims complaints about Paul.

MJ
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It would be more correct to say there is no evidence that Prophet Muhammad spoke about Paul. Because no one has recorded everything that he said.
 
TheSufi said:
We don’t know everything that he knew or said. Just like we don’t know everything that Jesus knew, or said.
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On the contrary Jesus continues to speak to us through the Holy Spirit that guides and protects the Church.

MJ
 
TheSufi said:
Sure Islam can stand on its own. This is why Prophet Muhammad never taught his followers to study the bible, because Islam can stand on its own.
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Really? Not to read the “injil”?

MJ
 
MartinJordan said:
On the contrary Jesus continues to speak to us through the Holy Spirit that guides and protects the Church.

MJ
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Jesus speaking through the Holy Spirit now isn’t proof that we know everything Jesus said while he was here on Earth, some 2,000 years ago.
 
TheSufi said:
Jesus speaking through the Holy Spirit now isn’t proof that we know everything Jesus said while he was here on Earth, some 2,000 years ago.
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Matthew 28:20 : and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely ** I am with you always, to the very end of the age."
**

🙂

MJ
 
LtTony said:
I accept that many people don’t believe in the Resurrection. But the stand-in scenario for the crucifixion doesn’t pass the smell test. Jesus’ mother, other family members, Mary Mag and some of His closest associates witnessed His death. For believers, it makes God a HUGE deceiver to mislead sincere people like that.
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Well, lets just throw out a scenario.

Pilot seams to have a very sympathetic view of Jesus. He tries very hard to save Jesus even offering a mass murderer as an alternative for crucifiction. Pilots only goal was to prevent a Jewish revolt against Roman rule, his qualm was not with Jesus. So lets say to save a richeous man Pilot offers Jesus the option of a replacement. One of Jesus’s followers is approached in seceret and agrees to die in the messiahs place. Understandable as the Jewish understanding of the Messiah is that he is a warrior king and its hard to liberate Isreal if your dead. The to disguise the follower (chosen for his devotion and similar appearance) is beaten and whipped untill he is unrecognizeable. The next day he impersonates Jesus to save his life and then Jesus returns “resurrected”. When the Romans and Jews start looking for him Jesus leaves but promises to return and defeat evil.

Not saying its true but its possible.
 
Skadi said:
Well, lets just throw out a scenario.

Pilot seams to have a very sympathetic view of Jesus. He tries very hard to save Jesus even offering a mass murderer as an alternative for crucifiction. Pilots only goal was to prevent a Jewish revolt against Roman rule, his qualm was not with Jesus. So lets say to save a richeous man Pilot offers Jesus the option of a replacement. One of Jesus’s followers is approached in seceret and agrees to die in the messiahs place. Understandable as the Jewish understanding of the Messiah is that he is a warrior king and its hard to liberate Isreal if your dead. The to disguise the follower (chosen for his devotion and similar appearance) is beaten and whipped untill he is unrecognizeable. The next day he impersonates Jesus to save his life and then Jesus returns “resurrected”. When the Romans and Jews start looking for him Jesus leaves but promises to return and defeat evil.

Not saying its true but its possible.
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And so his own mother and those who had spent each day with him for the past three years didn’t recognize him? Or were they in on it as well? And what was the outcome of this conspiracy. The one who called himself the Son of God went into hiding, or from the Jewish perspective, the warrior king went into hiding. Sorry, but this is ridiculous.
 
Skadi said:
Well, lets just throw out a scenario.

Pilot seams to have a very sympathetic view of Jesus. He tries very hard to save Jesus even offering a mass murderer as an alternative for crucifiction. Pilots only goal was to prevent a Jewish revolt against Roman rule, his qualm was not with Jesus. So lets say to save a richeous man Pilot offers Jesus the option of a replacement. One of Jesus’s followers is approached in seceret and agrees to die in the messiahs place. Understandable as the Jewish understanding of the Messiah is that he is a warrior king and its hard to liberate Isreal if your dead. The to disguise the follower (chosen for his devotion and similar appearance) is beaten and whipped untill he is unrecognizeable. The next day he impersonates Jesus to save his life and then Jesus returns “resurrected”. When the Romans and Jews start looking for him Jesus leaves but promises to return and defeat evil.

Not saying its true but its possible.
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🍿

Not in the Bible ~
 
MartinJordan said:
I’ll take your word for it.🙂 However why then do you try to disagree with us by quoting Bible verses when Mohammed didn’t according to you? :confused:

MJ
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Prophet Muhammad did not instruct Muslim to read the bible, nor is our based on what is in the bible. But there is nothing wrong with reading it, if one has a sound grounding the Islam. I like much of what I read from Jesus, in fact much of it is insightful. I just don’t necessarily agree with all Christian commentary regarding his words.
 
SteveVH said:
And so his own mother and those who had spent each day with him for the past three years didn’t recognize him? Or were they in on it as well? And what was the outcome of this conspiracy. The one who called himself the Son of God went into hiding, or from the Jewish perspective, the warrior king went into hiding. Sorry, but this is ridiculous.
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It’s not rediculous at all. There are plenty of stories about car crashes, burn victims, and others whom thier families could not recognize. It’s not at all rediculous, it’s totally feisable.
 
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