Do other Christian denominations accept homosexuality for their own convenience?

[Lea101]

DId I miss something?

The passage about jesus healing his servant, I believe. People say he and the slaved loved each other (not in a platonic way) and that it was common for romans to sleep with servants (sex slaves or something, and homosexuality was common amongst pagans)…there are lots of websites that will explain and tell you about this…but to not hijack this thread, I’ll basically sum it up and say that at the end of the day, Jesus praised him for his faith, not for his relationship with the servant, hence he does not affirm homosexuality. He didn’t acknowledge it, just like he didn’t acknowledge everyone’s sins before healing their loved ones

 

[exnihilo]

Getting kicked out by their parents when they come out, being told that they are gross, being bullied in school, being called slurs, being beaten up/killed, religious people telling them that they are going to hell, people wanting them to be jailed etc

Just because it is being increasingly accepted does not mean that the lgbt community does not face discrimination

I wouldn’t say most of what you say is discrimination is such. And the analysis of the issue hinges directly on the question of whether homosexuality is sinful or wrong. If homosexuality is wrong then parents in some cases maybe should kick their child out. If the child is living a homosexual life and there are other children in the home then this might be the best thing to do. If homosexuality is indeed wrong then hopefully many people will be repulsed by it. Being repulsed by sin isn’t a bad thing. If homosexuality is a terrible sin then hopefully religious people are telling practitioners that they risk Hell. If homosexuality is wrong then it is certainly possible to criminalize it the same as we do other wrongful acts. Adultery has been criminalized in the past. That may be imprudent, but I don’t think that is wrong.

We are called not to unjustly discriminate against homosexuals. We are not called to never discriminate against them in any sense of the word precisely because it is indeed a wrongful act. Discriminate has been turned into a slur. It isn’t. Saying a man has discriminating tastes isn’t an insult, or at least wasn’t in the past. There has been unjust discrimination against homosexuals, but they are hardly alone in that. Unjust discrimination isn’t a reason to abandon just discrimination.

 

[Peter_J]

Do other Christian denominations accept homosexuality for their own convenience?

Possibly. I recall hearing “slippery slope” arguments along the lines of “If we accept [fornication/divorce/etc] then that will make it harder to condemn homosexual acts.” – hinting that the real reason for opposing [fornication/divorce/etc] is not because they are wrong in and of themselves.

 

[Peter_J]

Getting kicked out by their parents when they come out, being told that they are gross, being bullied in school, being called slurs, being beaten up/killed, religious people telling them that they are going to hell, people wanting them to be jailed etc

Some time read Always Our Children: A Pastoral Message To Parents Of Homosexual Children And Suggestions For Pastoral Ministers, including but not limited to the part about how “A shocking number of homosexual youth end up on the streets because of rejection by their families.”

Just because it is being increasingly accepted does not mean that the lgbt community does not face discrimination

LGBT individuals face discrimination. In some cases (i.e. if the person is celibate) they face hostility from the LGBT community.

 

[Cheiron]

I wouldn’t say most of what you say is discrimination is such. And the analysis of the issue hinges directly on the question of whether homosexuality is sinful or wrong. If homosexuality is wrong then parents in some cases maybe should kick their child out. If the child is living a homosexual life and there are other children in the home then this might be the best thing to do.

I think it’s a perfectly monstrous suggestion that it’s okay to kick a gay son or daughter out.

We are called not to unjustly discriminate against homosexuals. We are not called to never discriminate against them in any sense of the word precisely because it is indeed a wrongful act. Discriminate has been turned into a slur. It isn’t. Saying a man has discriminating tastes isn’t an insult, or at least wasn’t in the past. There has been unjust discrimination against homosexuals, but they are hardly alone in that. Unjust discrimination isn’t a reason to abandon just discrimination.

Lea101 talked about children being bullied, called slurs, beaten up, killed and people wanting them jailed. In fact, there is a thread about jailing gays in the Social Justice subforum. Your response to Lea101 was:

I wouldn’t say most of what you say is discrimination is such.

If even killing children because they’re gay isn’t discrimination, then what is? And all those terrible things also happen to Catholics in warzones in the Middle-East. Do you think that’s not discrimination either?

 

[Peter_J]

I think it’s a perfectly monstrous suggestion that it’s okay to kick a gay son or daughter out.

It isn’t “okay” at all. See

Some time read Always Our Children: A Pastoral Message To Parents Of Homosexual Children And Suggestions For Pastoral Ministers, including but not limited to the part about how “A shocking number of homosexual youth end up on the streets because of rejection by their families.”

A Catholic parent who kicks his/her son or daughter out for being homosexual is going against the church.

 

[Cheiron]

It isn’t “okay” at all. See

A Catholic parent who kicks his/her son or daughter out for being homosexual is going against the church.

Thank you. I also read that in your previous post. Perhaps I should have added “for you” to my sentence. Rest assured, I don’t assume exnihilo speaks for the Church in this regard.

 

[Peter_J]

Thank you for saying that. I get a little tired of Protestants taking this or that comment on a discussion forum and making it into Catholicism.

 

[Rosebud77]

Would being warmly welcomed into a Church as a gay or lesbian with same sex attraction but asked to be celibate and not marry be acceptable to your gay and lesbian friends?. It’s been my experience that those with SSA want not only to be welcomed but told gay marriage and relationships with partners even while not married are acceptable.

Mary.

And that is the problem

 

[Rosebud77]

Getting kicked out by their parents when they come out, being told that they are gross, being bullied in school, being called slurs, being beaten up/killed, religious people telling them that they are going to hell, people wanting them to be jailed etc

Just because it is being increasingly accepted does not mean that the lgbt community does not face discrimination

Have YOU ever done those things? I certainly have not and nor has anyone I know…

Not have I ever seen or heard it done.

Everyone is in that sense “discriminated against”: for some reason, I certainly am and have been for being English in Ireland, many times .

 

[commenter]

LGBT individuals face discrimination. In some cases (i.e. if the person is celibate) they face hostility from the LGBT community.

The above post emphasizes the word individuals. The media has trained us, and in some cases the media has trained whole denominations, to regard people as members of a bloc. In a way, the media has gotten rid of old stereotypes and put in new ones. The new stereotype is that all LGBT persons owe their primary allegiance to the bloc, or “the LGBT community”.

The media has gotten the government to make it much more difficult for anyone to assist an individual who chooses to try to emphasize their heterosexuality, rather than their homosexuality. The reality is that some persons vary in how strong the homosexual attraction may be, compared with other persons, or compared across their own lifespan.
The media denies that reality. They, and some denominations that follow the media, support the idea that leaving the “bloc” is not allowed. It may be easier to resign from the Moonies, or from the local motorcycle gang, than from ****this ****bloc.
There is a new practice called “outing”; not, as when a person feels comfortable to acknowledge he is gay, but rather, announcing someone else is gay, when they would prefer to keep their sexuality private. The rationale is that the individual person is unimportant, everyone is a cog in a machine towards social justice. Denominations that denounce other kinds of cruelty are silent on ****this ********kind ****of cruelty: their silence is part of being considered a “welcoming” church.

Gay persons who support the Catholic ministry “Courage” are denounced, because their primary allegiance is to God and to other ****individual ****persons. They don’t march in “the bloc”.

 

[Cheiron]

Have YOU ever done those things? I certainly have not and nor has anyone I know…

Not have I ever seen or heard it done.

Everyone is in that sense “discriminated against”: for some reason, I certainly am and have been for being English in Ireland, many times .

The Catholic Church has. Tomas Torquemada tortured and killed gay people. And even today they’re being called disordered by the Catholic cathecism. Pope Benedict XVI said same sex marriage is a threat to justice and world peace. That is bullying.

 

[exnihilo]

It isn’t “okay” at all. See

A Catholic parent who kicks his/her son or daughter out for being homosexual is going against the church.

For merely having same sex attraction yes. But for living a homosexual lifestyle I can’t see how that would be absolutely wrong, especially if other people in the home could be harmed. Are Catholic parent’s obligated to allow an 18 year old to stay in their home while living an active homosexual life?

 

[Peter_J]

Are Catholic parent’s obligated to allow an 18 year old to stay in their home while living an active homosexual life?

No.

 

[Sy_Noe]

I welcome you to present evidence of this. The text seems pretty clear on this issue:

Romans 1: 22-32

Since the earliest writings we have on the subject, this passage has been explicitly linked with homosexual acts, consensual or otherwise.

Here’s some good reading on the subject which pulls from the writings of the Early church Fathers.
catholic.com/tracts/early-teachings-on-homosexuality

I for one don’t find it that clear. The texts could have been referring to heterosexuals having unnatural relations with someone of the same sex. For homosexuals, it could be said today that what is unnatural would be relations with a straight person. I always think it’s good to consider the times in which something was written.

In any case, to the OP, no I don’t think Christians have come to accept homosexuality out of convenience. I think they have done so out of love following discernment and prayer and coming to see God’s word as they have come to understand it.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Yep, hardly convenient. And yet, as a church we felt a call from Jesus to do unto others and open our arms to all His children.

I once corresponded with an Episcopal priest about these matters and the words she spoke to me still remain in my heart until this very day and forever will. I inquired about TEC’s view on homosexuality. She spoke of Bishop Robinson of whom I was already familiar with. But she shared a story about a member of the church where she was the priest-in-charge at the time. Long story short, this member disagreed with her on the issue. She asked if he believed in 1 God and in Jesus? When the man replied yes, she replied and so do I. And said in that case they were on the same page and they did not have to agree on homosexuality in order to worship together and be in the same family. The man kept attending every wk. I just thought that story was so cool and a great way to look at it.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Not good, IMHO.

Your opinion does reflect your faith. And others have other faiths.

 

[Sy_Noe]

This is why a central authority for the interpretation of scripture is necessary. Left solely to us, we could twist the Bible to say anything we want it to.

But it takes faith regardless of which one. Even Catholics must have faith in their central authority.

 

[commenter]

I once corresponded with an Episcopal priest about these matters and the words she spoke to me still remain in my heart until this very day and forever will. I inquired about TEC’s view on homosexuality. She spoke of Bishop Robinson of whom I was already familiar with. But she shared a story about a member of the church where she was the priest-in-charge at the time. Long story short, this member disagreed with her on the issue. She asked if he believed in 1 God and in Jesus? When the man replied yes, she replied and so do I. And said in that case they were on the same page and they did not have to agree on homosexuality in order to worship together and be in the same family. The man kept attending every wk. I just thought that story was so cool and a great way to look at it.

I would be curious how that pastor would have responded if her parishioner had said he believes teens benefit from drinking alcohol and using pornography…and if the person were a parent of teens…and in charge of the church youth group…applying to be head of the Sunday School…

Ah yes. Let us worship together, every week. We are on the ***same *****page **really. We don’t have to agree.

 

[Tomdstone]

Your opinion does reflect your faith. And others have other faiths.

Which faith is true, or is it just a matter of opinion. Would you say that it is a matter of opinion as to whether or not honor killings are morally acceptable?