Do other Christian denominations accept homosexuality for their own convenience?

[eamonnroma]

I drive by Methodist and Congregational churches a lot and see flags with rainbows saying “God accepts every person” or “God is still talking to us” etc.
I have no issue with their beliefs, but do they do this just to go with the political tide and try to gain more members? Or did they hold this same attitude even twenty years ago? I am just curious because it seems kind of strange that a church would change it’s beliefs just to go with the tide, actually a church doing that seems to me to lack any fundamental understanding of what it believes to begin with. That is my opinion anyways.

So, are you saying that God does not love everyone?

 

[eamonnroma]

Because LGBT people have started coming out since the 1960’s, everyone now knows a friend, family member or co-worker who is gay or lesbian. They can also see that LGBT people are generally good people, no different from heterosexual people.

So when a preacher proclaims how sinful or disordered homosexuality is, the people in the pews notice how detached the preacher is from reality. On top of that, the man in the pulpit smears a friendly co-worker, a good friend or a nice uncle. Would you go to a place where someone insults your family and friends? I wouldn’t. And if the pews become empty, the preacher will be out of a job very quickly.

But I also think we should give people the benefit of the doubt. Some Christian denominations probably do accept gay people because they genuinely think that’s theologically sound.

So, are you saying that the homosexual person is sinful and disordered?

 

[eamonnroma]

I have an idea that marriage for those with same sex attraction is simply putting a bandage over a very serious condition. No one know why this condition exists. No one knows if it is genetic. If a gene is found to be the cause, it won’t be long before babies with the gene will be aborted just like those babies with Down Syndrome are being aborted. If it is not genetic there needs to be research to find out why. It is possible the this condition is caused by hormones in the mother’s womb. Or it could be because of something in the child’s environment. Whatever the cause is, accepting this condition as normal will close down research to find a cause and a cure.

The Church recognizes that those with same sex attraction carry a heavy burden and the Church is open to them with arms wide open just as it is open to other single men and women who are not married. The Church also teaches that marriage is for the union of a man and a woman. It is no more sinful for those with same sex attraction to engage is sexual behavior as it is for an unmarried person to engage in sexual behavior. The teaching of the Church is true. Truth is often very difficult to accept.

If course, if it is genetic, this means that it will have been directly created by God

 

[eamonnroma]

From my understanding of the bible, Jesus welcomed the sinners and condemned the Pharisees who lived by quoting the law. So homosexuals can be sure that they are welcomed and loved by Jesus

 

[Cheiron]

So, are you saying that the homosexual person is sinful and disordered?

No, I’m not.

 

[Peter_J]

So, are you saying that the homosexual person is sinful and disordered?

Actually we *all *are.

So, are you saying that God does not love everyone?

There is an old joke that when the Church announces a change, the document always begins, “As the Church has always taught….” This is usually cited as a way to suggest that the Church is a bit cynical, even hypocritical. But, in fact, this is how change happens in the Church. “The Church has always taught” that all human beings are made in the image and likeness of God, we just forgot to apply that to gays and lesbians for a few centuries. The Church has always taught that Communion is the food of mercy, essential to the on-going conversion of all Christians, not just the divorced and remarried. No one is going to “change doctrine” at this synod, but the synod fathers are trying to retrieve lost insights, recalibrate the way our doctrines are applied in real pastoral praxis, discern new ways to proclaim the Gospel. The synod is evidence that the Church is alive and still attentive to the Holy Spirit, not only to the treatises on canon law. Those who are afraid of this synod – and of this pope – and the ones of little faith.

• from “As the Church has always taught…” by Michael Sean Winters

 

[Sy_Noe]

But would you agree with the assertion that it isn’t obvious how the previous generation was wrong?

That is to say, say we agree that the previous generation’s “double standard” (if we want to call it that) was wrong … would you agree it isn’t obvious that the way to fix it is to liberalize their stance on homosexuality? (As opposed to conservatizing their stances on divorce, fornication etc.)

I would agree nothing in matters of faith is obvious without some faith. Whichever faith one holds to.

 

[Darryl_B]

The only thing I care about (on this thread) is the usurpation of the rainbow. People let me please have the rainbow back, let me please enjoy Gods wonders, without it being about sex.

 

[Catholic_farmer]

I lived in San Francisco, too.

So would it be acceptable and not be considered “flaunting” for two gay men to hold hands in public and introduce themselves to others as a couple and kiss each other goodbye or when meeting in public (I’m not talking about heavy or passionate kissing but just a quick kiss)?

If you lived there, you know that I am not speaking about holding hands and quick pecks, lol! Hence my comparison to New Orleans after dark.

 

[Catholic_farmer]

Just because if something was, to use your words, “UNIVERSALLY understood for almost 2000 years”, does not assure me that humans with finite minds have been infallible in their understanding for all of that time. It takes faith to believe that just as it does for those today whose understanding of God’s word has grown and evolved over the course of time.

But your last sentence I don’t understand. Slavery is okay as long as the slaves are not limited to a single race?

It sounds as if you are nitpicking at things to boost your failing argument. Slavery is okay if it’s all races? Really? I can’t believe you would ask that.

You are trying to create a straw man argument to avoid the real issue.

Homosexuality is very clearly wrong in the bible. Please go back and re-read the quotes people kindly offered you. In fact, there are more quotes regarding the status of homosexuality than references to the trinity (the actual word “trinity” isn’t in the New Testament), yet, we don’t argue endlessly about that. Most Christians believe in the trinity, despite the word not actually appearing in the bible.

In addition, homosexuality is wrong because of how God describes marriage. He tells us that a “man’s seed” is for procreation. This cannot occur naturally except between a man and woman. It isn’t as much about saying “no, you can’t do that” as it is about understanding what sex is for and appreciating it as a gift from God. Their are limits to what ‘straight’ people should be doing as well because certain acts do not allow for procreation (use your imagination). Read Theology of the Body and then try to justify homosexual (or other) acts.

That being said, we are also told to love our neighbor, without any caveats. Anyone who injures, attacks, abuses or otherwise harasses someone because they are gay is clearly not loving them. The Catechism also tells us very clearly to treat everyone with respect and dignity (hey, there is your slavery answer, lol!). So, telling a gay person they are going to h— is neither loving them or treating them with respect and dignity. No one converts and invites God’s children by being abusive and mean. Pope Francis recently scolded priests who have dismissed gay people in the past. Jesus would never have dismissed anyone.

How should Catholics behave towards gay people? The proper attitude is love. Just love. I think it’s also only appropriate to explain the teaching if asked, and then, do it gently. If someone asks, then they want to know why. If you aren’t able to explain why, then refer them to someone else. If you can’t be charitable, then leave people alone. And never, ever assume anything because of the way someone dresses, speaks, or their mannerisms. If they don’t ask, you are likely to only hurt and drive them away by bringing it up. Remember, society tells us over and over again that many things are okay, such as abortion, divorce , and sex outside of marriage. All these things have good reasons to be wrong and should be approached gently when explaining why because people have been told the opposite all their lives. Even if you are certain a person is gay, you still have no idea whether or not the person is active in that lifestyle. So, love is the best approach for everyone and give them the benefit of the doubt. If they go up for the Eucharist, that’s between them, their confessor, and God, just as it is for divorced people.

 

[Tomdstone]

Slavery is okay as long as the slaves are not limited to a single race?

I thought that the Bible said that slaves should obey their earthly masters in everything?
Col 3:22
Ephes 6:5
1Pet 2:18

 

[Tomdstone]

How should Catholics behave towards gay people? The proper attitude is love. Just love. .

I don’t have any romantic or intense loving feeling of deep affection toward strangers I come in contact with in daily life. I love my family members with an intense feeling of deep affection, but I don’t love strangers. Of course, I wish them well, but my emotional feeling of deep loving affection toward them is non-existent and is better described as more or less neutral. For example, I have no romantic or intense loving feeling of deep emotional affection toward Hillary. Does that mean that I am committing mortal sin since I have no romantic or intense loving feeling of deep affection toward homosexuals?

 

[Catholic_farmer]

Don’t mistake a reference to slavery as an endorsement. Slavery in Roman times derived from debt or kidnapping. It was legal by Caesar. Could Jesus have changed the civil law? I think not. Herod used slaves to build his many palaces. Jesus makes it clear that there is no difference between slave and master in God’s eyes. He couldn’t solve all our societal issues or poverty, slavery, abortion and sickness would have ceased to exist when Jesus came. That wasn’t His purpose. He came to save us in a different way. He alleviated the suffering of many people, but He had to also tell us how to live in our age. Would a modern day priest tell sugar cane workers in Florida or berry pickers in California to rise up and kill the masters? That is essentially modern slavery.

St. Paul also tells people how to live in the society they are in. He speaks out against many things, including abortion. What would have happened if he told slaves to revolt? He also frees a slave that converts. He tells the master that the former slave belongs to God. The Apostles didn’t have weapons. They couldn’t have led a revolt of slaves. Several popes debated the issues and a few entangled themselves in it. These are human failings and weaknesses. Slavery was never in God’s plan.

 

[Rosebud77]

If “gay pride parades” are a form of “flaunting,” is a St. Patrick’s day parade a parade where Irish people “flaunt” their Irishness? Should we get rid of any St. Patrick’s day parades?

if you really cannot see the difference? Or are you just trying to make a point, score?

Yes gay parades are exhibitionist, flaunting, showing off, enjoying thinking they are being gay and proud and …

Actually the last ST P parade I saw had nothing to do with him and may as well have been abolished and that was in Ireland
The trouble re the gay parades is that little ones will ask. hey but that is why they do it?

 

[Rosebud77]

For a gay person to even mention in casual conversation that they have a same-sex partner is probably considered by some people to be “flaunting”.

At my market stall here in rural Ireland, a middle aged Englishman came up , looked at a few things, a long with several other people, then announced loudly, " I will go and get my HUSBAND"

I lost many sales through sheer embarrassment.

Yes it IS flaunting and really not necessary
and most inconsiderate and socially inept,

Mind you a fellow trader who leaves his stall to go ot mass, introduced me to his 'partner";he had already shared with me that he has 4 kids by different women…

Altogether TMI flying around…

 

[Tomdstone]

St. Paul also tells people how to live in the society they are in. … He also frees a slave that converts.

IMHO, all slaves should be freed, not just the ones who converted. I don’t believe in slavery for anyone, especially women since they are subject to being sexually assaulted by their male masters. In our present times, this is what is taught by some Muslim groups, that if a woman captured in war converts to Islam, she is then a free person. However, if she does not convert to Islam, she is subject to being enslaved by her male master. I disagree with St. Paul and with the Muslims of today who will only free those women who convert.

 

[Catholic_farmer]

I remember now why I usually avoid this topic. It’s the smugness on both sides and the hurt that results in the way we explain why one specific behavior is unacceptable in God’s eyes while conveniently ignoring all the other behaviors. There is always hypocrisy when singling out one type of sin. When is comes to sin, we are like criminals comparing crimes.

The Sixth Commandment is difficult for all humans beings past puberty. That is a fact. We all try and fail in this area, whether we are gay or straight (for general purposes, I am using gay to represent all the various orientations).

Please, if you can, tell me who is the bigger sinner:

1. A straight man married to his wife of many years that treats her like an object. He uses her for his own desires without giving anything of himself. His appetites are demeaning and degrading to his wife, but she meekly accepts them, thinking that this is what her role is.
2. A gay man in a monogamous relationship trying to imitate what he sees as holy and good. He wants a family and love, but cannot bring himself to be attracted to women. He wonders why he was made this way and struggles with the pain of rejection knowing that his Catholic faith would not recognize his relationship. Trying to return to the Church of his youth is his bitter dream, but he sees no clear path back.

For 1), perhaps a study of Theology of the Body could help him better understand the damage he is doing to his relationship with his wife and with God.

For 2), groups like Courage can help him find his way home and help him when he stumbles.

Can you imagine the pain of feeling like you don’t belong or that you can’t have a family because of your desires? Can you imagine how hard it would be to carry that cross?

We all have to control our passions, whether gay or straight. So, you aren’t gay? Okay, sure you don’t have that cross to bear, but do you still self-abuse or watch porn? Do you treat your spouse with dignity, or are they merely an object for your pleasure? Do you look outside your relationship for sexual pleasure? Just because you’re straight doesn’t mean your safe from sin or somehow more entitled to receiving God’s Body and Blood. None of us deserve the grace that comes from the sacraments.

We all should stop concentrating so much on types of sins and pointing fingers at others who are ‘worse’ in our own minds. Grave sin is grave sin. We aren’t on opposing teams here. We are all struggling together towards a common blessed eternity. Reach out and help those struggling next to you. Love each other and help each other.

God bless all.

 

[Tomdstone]

How should Catholics behave towards gay people? The proper attitude is love. Just love.

Love each other and help each other.
.

No. I can’t agree with engaging in love with homosexuals. Sorry.

 

[Catholic_farmer]

No. I can’t agree with engaging in love with homosexuals. Sorry.

??

Fraternal love. You don’t have to sleep with anybody.

 

[Tomdstone]

How should Catholics behave towards gay people? The proper attitude is love. Just love.

It is difficult for me to accept this. Catholics are supposed to love homosexuals, but according to Like 14:26, they are supposed to “hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters–yes, even their own life” ?