Do parish priests have the right to use only boy altar boys?

[japhy]

It’s a strange equation

Altar Boys = More Priests (vocations)
Altar Girls = Less Altar Boys
Therefore
Altar Girls = Fewer Vocations

I would argue then, that if a young boy/man has a genuine call to the priesthood, he is not likely to let the presence of a female servers to put him off becoming a server himself.

Indeed, the equation only makes sense if the number of Altar Servers is supposed to remain “constant”. There aren’t a limited number of spots available in a parish – a boy wouldn’t be turned away simply because there are already too many boys (or girls) serving at the altar.

 

[zuzu]

Dear JPII fan,

I don’t want to upset the applecart here, but the problem seems to be with the boys themselves.
From what you say, the parish in question has made special concessions to the boys (separate ‘garb’ etc), in order to get them to serve with the girls.
Don’t get me wrong. I think it’s great that there has been an increase in altar boys, but it says more about the attitude of the boys - that they have to be ‘pampered’ in order to get them to serve. If that is the case, i hardly think that any of them have the right mind-set to become priest material.
Being an altar server is a privilege, and they should want to serve out of love for Our Lord, regardless of the presence of girl servers, or being ‘allowed’ to wear something different, and thus set apart.
Is there is an element of pride creeping in here?

In my own parish of Our Lady Star of the Sea, we all just get on with it. There is no preferential treatment for boys or girls, and everyone gets on with each other. We work as a TEAM for God, with the blessing of our PP, the Bishop,and are honoured to be able to do so.
I guess we’re fortunate, here in the UK.
Lets hope that at the end of the day, all will be well in the vinyard.
God Bless
Suze
xx

 

[cue]

Perhaps I was unclear. I do not believe female servers caused this crisis, but explained the boy servers are the surest means of remedying the situation on the parish level.

I am not blaming girl servers for the ‘vocations crisis.’ I am recommending a remedy the Church recomends.

Having all male servers connects altar service to the priesthood ina very real way for the altar boys. It is not a matter of pride or pampering but of saying that serving is something we want the boys to do. In many cases, a boy server policy could encourage boys. However, the allowance of girl servers frequently actively discourages boys for various reasons, shyness, scared of girls, do not want to be seen as a girl, etc. Many boys start serving when they are very young. It can hardly be expected that a second-grader is going to have the properly mature disposition that we expect of a twenty-first grader (twenty-six or older) priest.

I have to ask, though, what is so great about girl servers? How does it really benefit the parish? In the end, it seems any benefit could not outweigh the good (or potential good) that is afforded by a boys-only policy.

 

[Brendan]

So yes, it is allowed, but note the exceptional nature of it, the need for a “just and reasonable cause”. That it what the priest would need to consider and others could legitimately confront him about.

John,

Have you read the new Apostolic Exhoration

There was this little gem on a priest celebrating Mass alone

Section 80, on the spirtual life of the priest

An intense spiritual life will enable him to enter more deeply into communion with the Lord and to let himself be possessed by God’s love, bearing witness to that love at all times, even the darkest and most difficult. To this end I join the Synod Fathers in recommending "the daily celebration of Mass, even when the faithful are not present."

 

[zuzu]

Indeed, the equation only makes sense if the number of Altar Servers is supposed to remain “constant”. There aren’t a limited number of spots available in a parish – a boy wouldn’t be turned away simply because there are already too many boys (or girls) serving at the altar.

I never suggested that anyone would be ‘turned away’, but as some of you fellow Americans have pointed out in other (related) threads, boys don’t like girls - for some strange reason to do with ‘‘cooties’’ - or so i am led to understand, as we don’t have these in the UK, thank heavens!

In my own parish we currently have a very healthy and happy mixed serving team of 35 boys, girls, men and women, and possitively encourage more to join. We have entire families who serve when able to do so.

Now, you may not like this, you may not agree with it, and you may go to great lengths in trying to ‘educate’ me by quoting length passages from the vast array of ecclesiastical or liturgical documents. I’m touched, but all i was trying to do was to respond to those who are totally against female servers, and who continue to equate their presence with a decline in vocations.
But having tried (unsuccessfully, it would seem) to answer this particular question, i find myself confronted with more and more.
I am grateful for having these, and other, more conservative views explained to my limited perspective.
Let’s hope all of us can be open to Gods love in all things, at all times, and in all ways.

suze

 

[japhy]

I never suggested that anyone would be ‘turned away’, but as some of you fellow Americans have pointed out in other (related) threads, boys don’t like girls - for some strange reason to do with ‘‘cooties’’ - or so i am led to understand, as we don’t have these in the UK, thank heavens!

I was agreeing with you.

Having all male servers connects altar service to the priesthood ina very real way for the altar boys. It is not a matter of pride or pampering but of saying that serving is something we want the boys to do. In many cases, a boy server policy could encourage boys. However, the allowance of girl servers frequently actively discourages boys for various reasons, shyness, scared of girls, do not want to be seen as a girl, etc. Many boys start serving when they are very young. It can hardly be expected that a second-grader is going to have the properly mature disposition that we expect of a twenty-first grader (twenty-six or older) priest.

I have to ask, though, what is so great about girl servers? How does it really benefit the parish? In the end, it seems any benefit could not outweigh the good (or potential good) that is afforded by a boys-only policy.

If altar service is connected to the priesthood for boys, why can it not be connected to religious orders for girls?

Perhaps the bigger question is, why are boys or girls interested in being Altar Servers? I was an Altar Boy because I wanted to be involved with the Mass and learn more about the liturgy. I entertained thoughts of priesthood, but I do not think that was my vocation – I’m engaged to be married in three months, and I pray about the Permanent Diaconate, that I might be able to fulfill a deep personal need for service to the Church in that way, a couple decades down the line.

Are boys and girls entering the ministry of serving at the altar without knowing the historical background? Are they entering thinking it’s just “something to do” every now and then? Are they learning about the liturgy or just being told what to do and when to do it? Catechesis, catechesis, catechesis!

 

[zuzu]

Cue,
thanks for your response.
I can only go by my own experience, but i can say that i take my altar service very seriously. As to how female servers enhance the parish - i honestly couldn’t say.

I know i have much to learn about many areas connected to the Church and Liturgy etc, but why does it always have to come down to this. Can’t a thing EVER be OK if it doesn’t conform?

If we never evolved, moved or progressed, we would still believe the earth was flat.
I understand that some of you may not think female altar servers count on the ‘progress’ scale, but if they serve with reverence and care alongside their generous male counterparts, what harm is being done? Surely all of heaven will still rejoice at every Mass, regardless.

The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. We should try and remember this

God Bless

Suze

 

[cue]

If altar service is connected to the priesthood for boys, why can it not be connected to religious orders for girls?

Good question. A call to the priesthood is a call to service at the altar. Religious life is not a call to the altar. Similarly, altar serving would not be connected to religious brothers as well. The only way in which serving fosters a vocation to the religious life (not priesthood) is that it is bringing them to Mass, an action they are presumably already fond of. When serving is understood as connected to the priesthood, it becomes a mini-retreat or internship for the priesthood. For religious life, this mini-retreat or internship would take the form of spending a weekend with that religious community and working with them.

I was an Altar Boy because I wanted to be involved with the Mass and learn more about the liturgy.

You could accomplish these things without serving Mass. There is certainly no problem to begin serving for those reasons, but serving has no monopoly on involvement or knowledge in the liturgy.

Are they entering thinking it’s just “something to do” every now and then? Are they learning about the liturgy or just being told what to do and when to do it? Catechesis, catechesis, catechesis!

When serving is opened up to girls, it does become just “something to do.” In other words, it becomes strictly functional. Servers are needed just to “get the job done.” However, when the policy is only boys, the message of connection to the priesthood is proclaimed on a parish level. Yes, catechesis is definitely needed. In this case, though, actions speak louder than words. The action of allowing only boys connects serving to the priesthood in a way words cannot. This does excuse the need to educate with words, but inmeasurabley supports it. Education in the liturgy should be given to all, servers and non-servers.

 

[japhy]

Good question. A call to the priesthood is a call to service at the altar. Religious life is not a call to the altar. Similarly, altar serving would not be connected to religious brothers as well.

That’s a good answer.

You could accomplish these things without serving Mass. There is certainly no problem to begin serving for those reasons, but serving has no monopoly on involvement or knowledge in the liturgy.

I won’t deny I also learned about the priesthood from being an Altar Server. It’s one thing to read about the liturgy, it’s another to participate in it by service, though. That was what I was intrigued by: service at the altar. Not because someone had to “get the job done”, but because I wanted to participate in that way.

 

[mom2three]

From a pastoral perspective, two issues arise.

1. For many priests, serving Mass was pivotal in discerning their call to the priesthood. Every time a girl servers, she is displacing a boy (or the possibly of a boy serving). Particularly today, a pastor must do all he can to foster vocations. This may seem like such a small detail, but to a boy deciding what to do with his life, it is a priceless experience.
2. The feminization of the liturgy and Catholicism. We can see that, in many places, mostly women have stepped up to these ministries and the result is that the younger generation has come to believe that church is for women, not men. Allowing girls to serve destroys a reason for boys to serve. It becomes a normal activity, rather than a special opportunity that they are uniquely invited to seize.

While female altar servers are allowed, the pastoral situation demands that they not be employed. Allowing girls to serve discourages boys to serve and therefore enacts, on the parish level, a vocational suicide. In a world that is shouting its loudest to tell them that priesthood is worthless, their one safe-haven, the Church, needs to provide a place that recognizes and encourages young men to serve at her altars as priests…

I agree… I would not permit my daughter to serve in this capacity in the Church because of these reasons… I see no reason why girls need to step into this position when they are unable to discern a vocation to the priesthood… and I don’t believe, by any means, that this is being discriminatory.

 

[scylla]

I would never allow my daughter to serve at the altar as this would be misrepresenting the faith to her and not doing my duty as a loving parent. It is similar to showing cookies to my child then taking them away later so they cannot enjoy them. I love my daughters and want Salvation for them, which is not gained by seeking self above God’s will.

Why subject my daughters to that, they can never be priests. I love my daughters why would I use them to further the feminist agenda, which is the whole reason for female altar servers. Lets be honest here, why do so many push for female altar servers, are any of those people truly against female priests? Being against female priests means being willing to stand up and state that that would be evil and misrepresenting Catholicism.

I would rather further the Christian agenda which is a call to service above self. Self is what drives a desire to serve in any position, service to God seeks to serve how God wants us to do so.

God would call my daughters to possible vocation as a physical mother or a spiritual mother to others.

This in contrast to the thinking that would make women desire to fulfill roles of men or vice versa. What would drive a man to want to be a nun? Would anyone call this a desire to fulfill God’s will or that man’s desire.

In Christ
Scylla

 

[johnpaul2_fan]

Dear JPII fan,

I don’t want to upset the applecart here, but the problem seems to be with the boys themselves.
From what you say, the parish in question has made special concessions to the boys (separate ‘garb’ etc), in order to get them to serve with the girls.

I’m afraid I wasn’t specific enough in my post, the boys alter serve at mass only with other alter boys. The girls alter serve at a different mass only with other alter girls. So for example, at a 10 AM Mass this Sunday only boys will be assigned to alter serve, while next week at 10AM Sunday Mass only girls will be alter servers.

Don’t get me wrong. I think it’s great that there has been an increase in altar boys, but it says more about the attitude of the boys - that they have to be ‘pampered’ in order to get them to serve.

Trust me they aren’t being pampered. All of the alter servers are trained to be very reverend while serving and all servers receive Communion on the tongue.

Actually new alter serving garb (I’m not sure what you call it)was made for both the boys and the girls. The boys just have a traditional black/ white alter serving garb (similar to what you would have seen in the 1950’s.) While the girls actually reminds me a bit of a religious habit.

If that is the case, i hardly think that any of them have the right mind-set to become priest material.
Being an altar server is a privilege, and they should want to serve out of love for Our Lord, regardless of the presence of girl servers, or being ‘allowed’ to wear something different, and thus set apart.
Is there is an element of pride creeping in here?

Both boys and girls got new (more traditional) alter serving garb. That was bought and/or sewed by some of the mothers. The older alter serving robes (again I’m not really sure what they are called) were old and definitely needed to be replaced.

In my own parish of Our Lady Star of the Sea, we all just get on with it. There is no preferential treatment for boys or girls, and everyone gets on with each other. We work as a TEAM for God, with the blessing of our PP, the Bishop,and are honoured to be able to do so.

The servers all get along nicely, and their is no preferential treatment. It’s been working fine for everyone.

 

[zuzu]

Dear JP II fan,

The trouble with these forums is that people can often get hold of the wrong end of the stick.
I must have sounded pretty ‘high and mighty’, - if so, i apologize.

I’m glad to hear that your servers get on so well, even though ‘segregated’, but if that’s what it takes to keep them serving, then so be it. Anything that instils a love of the Mass can only be a good thing.

FYI - the ‘garb’ is usually a ‘cassock’ (black or red) topped by a white cotton ‘cotta’. At our parish, the servers (boys and girls, men and women) wear black cassocks principally during Ordinary Time. Red cassocks are worn during Easter and Masses for martyrs.
The other ‘garb’ is the ‘alb’. This is usually cream in colour, hooded and tied at the waist by a rope-like belt called a cincture. This is usually worn by the junior servers during Advent and Lent at the Family Masses.

Hope this was helpful
suze

 

[bluerose]

Uh, whoa, wait a minute… the GIRLS and WOMEN wear CASSOCKS???

Is that even permitted? I thought the cassocks were reserved to males only, being as that is typically what seminarians wear. At least that’s what we were told when our “regular” parish started using altar girls and they got rid of the cassocks and surplices and replaced them all with albs (so that everyone would be “in uniform”.)

My son doesn’t serve Mass at our “regular” parish, but at a military chapel and he wears the cassock and surplice. As far as I know this chapel has never had female altar servers, but I don’t know if that’s the chaplain’s preference or if that’s what the diocese of the U.S. army or military prefers. He likes wearing the cassock and surplice. The chapel has albs available, too, but my son says he likes dressing “like Father does”, it’s “cool” to wear the cassocks. He and Father have a lot of talks about vocations (not just the priesthood, but about being what God wants you to be). I just am glad that he has not “outgrown” this desire to serve at the altar… he’s been doing it for five years now, he’s 13 and wants to do it as long as he can!

 

[Brendan]

Uh, whoa, wait a minute… the GIRLS and WOMEN wear CASSOCKS???

Is that even permitted? I thought the cassocks were reserved to males only, being as that is typically what seminarians wear.
!

You are 100% Correct.

The Cassock is clerical garb, it is limited to clerics, but permitted seminarians and to those men and boys that act in a clerical role.

It should NEVER be worn by girls.

the cassock is as tied to men as closely as a nun’s habit is exclusively for women.

 

[zuzu]

What is the ‘history’ of the cassock as ‘clerical garb’

 

[cue]

What is the ‘history’ of the cassock as ‘clerical garb’

Here are a few links:
Catholic Encyclopedia Article

EWTN Article

Knowing that the cassock is a clerical garment and was traditional worn when serving, we can see how closely altar serving and priesthood were tied together. It will not, then, surprise us to learn that much of the ‘push’ for girls servers was from supporters of the ordination of women.
To allow girls to serve can be perceived as lie in a way. Perhaps a girl becomes fond of serving, she cannot take it to the next level; she cannot become a priest. So for girls, it is a dead-end. For boys, however, it can be the door to following their true call, God’s will for their lives.

 

[zuzu]

There will always be a MINORITY who wish to see the ordination of women. I don’t happen to be one of them.
The fact that serving for girls is a “dead end” is irrelevant.
The MAJORITY of girls who serve (90+%) would never entertain the idea of ‘taking it further’ onto ordination, so what’s the problem?
The way i see it, a cassock is a garment worn to distinguish those whose function is to ‘serve the Lord’ - be it a priest or an altar server.
At one time, the cassock was worn every day by most priests. These days, you’ll be hard pressed to see a priest in a cassock, except on the odd occasion, or unless he is very ‘traditional’.
It is not the cassock that makes the priest, and it should not matter if it is worn by a female server.
Those who support female servers are often accused of being liberal feminists, who need to get back in line. Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[Brendan]

At one time, the cassock was worn every day by most priests. These days, you’ll be hard pressed to see a priest in a cassock, except on the odd occasion, or unless he is very ‘traditional’.
It is not the cassock that makes the priest, and it should not matter if it is worn by a female server…

Suze,

You’d be almost as hard presssed to see a nun wearing a habit either. That doesn’t mean that the habit is no longer the garb reserved for those women in consecrated religious life.

One cannot just say that the habit is now proper for anyone serving the poor for example.

And it would be equally inappropirate to dress anyone serving the poor in a habit, boys included.

The same it true for the cassock.

The fact remains, the cassock is not only reserved for the priesthood, and by special arrangement, to seminarians and altar BOYS, it is also the defined clothes of several orders of priests, such as Miles Christi or the Legionaires of Christ.

When you put girls in a cassock, you are dressing them as one of those orders of priests, and that is just as wrong and dressing a boy in the habit of +Mother Thresea’s Missionaries of Charity, just becuase he is going to give food to the poor.

One other thing, take a close look at the collar for those cassocks those girls are wearing, notice the little notch for a white tab. Why should girls be wearing some something just short of a Roman Collar?

 

[zuzu]

Brendan,
Sorry, but i can not agree with you on this point. For one thing the Habit - whether it be for a nun or a brother - is part of the consecration of the brother or sister concerned. They ‘recieve’ their habit in a formal vesting ceremony. It symbolizes poverty It is a special garment whether one chooses to wear it or not.

Secular priests don’t make such vows in the same way as religious order priests do. They don’t ‘recieve’ a cassock at their ordination. A cassock is not a ‘special’ garment as such.

And as for the little slot in the collar of a cassock - why should that disallow girls from wearing it, just because that slot is there to allow for a Roman Collar to be inserted? The collar is just as easily not inserted. It’s just a matter of design.

God bless you
Suze