Do people who are influenced by their environment, upbringing or psychological problems go to hell and isn’t the ignorance of those who do not believe

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People who come from rough upbringings/disadvantages. And usually no families or broken ones never get any allowances. Also trauma literally changes the brain. So people who suffer trauma/abuse in childhood/adolescents literally don’t have the same brains as people that were shielded and came from positive environments.
 
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WillPhillips said:
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Zblack00:
The biggest problem I have is that if hell is an eternity isn’t that a little cruel…
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Yes. The idea of eternal suffering, without redemption, is incompatible with the idea of a moral, all powerful god.
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Why do you think so?
 
Freddy said:
I was brought up in a good family in a good neighbourhood and went to a good school. Brought up to be a fine upstanding citizen! Well, I have more faults than you would want to know about, but the person I am today is as much a reflection of my upbringing as it is on any other aspect of my life.
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Maybe I used to think this at one point. But consider someone with the same exact upbringing, but different choices to the point where they end up lost from God and in major depression. There are plenty of people who have healthy upbringings with lots of potential and throw it away. Likewise there are a number of people who seem to inexplicably be God loving despite their more turbulent upbringing.

Last point, maybe hell would make more sense if you think of it simply as the complete absence of God. Eternal torture is the result of choosing something other than God for yourself
 
jzea1992 said:
People who come from rough upbringings/disadvantages. And usually no families or broken ones never get any allowances. Also trauma literally changes the brain. So people who suffer trauma/abuse in childhood/adolescents literally don’t have the same brains as people that were shielded and came from positive environments.
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That has naught to do with Faith and Salvation…
 
You may not think so but I do. It had everything to do with being a sinner and committing sins.
 
jzea1992 said:
You may not think so but I do. It had everything to do with being a sinner and committing sins.
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RE: Judgement and Salvation - GOD ther Just Judge - takes all extenuating situations into account…

For instance - check out Church Teachings on the Sin of Suicide - a form of Murder…
  1. Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.
  2. **[2283] We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.
 
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WillPhillips said:
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WillPhillips:
The idea of eternal suffering, without redemption, is incompatible with the idea of a moral, all powerful god.
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Of course he has not. Nor does the Church teach it. It insults our sensibilities and rightly so. Don’t be so afraid of your doubt.
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Just to make sure I’m understanding you correctly… you’re claiming that:
  • the Church does not teach that hell is an eternal state of being?
  • God has not revealed that this is so?
  • the Church doesn’t teach that hell isn’t incompatible with God’s nature?
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Gorgias said:
Just to make sure I’m understanding you correctly…
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The idea of eternal punishment, that is non-redemptive, should abhor you. And yes, this is not an an idea defended by the Church (although many self-professed Catholics seem to try).
 
WillPhillips said:
The idea of eternal suffering, without redemption, is incompatible with the idea of a moral, all powerful god.
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That MisUnderstands God and Man.

It’s MAN who brings that misery upon himself. Not God

You do not have to enter God’s Kingdom…

It’s up to you…

If you reject it - Don’t Blame God.

_

_
 
WillPhillips said:
The idea of eternal suffering, without redemption, is incompatible with the idea of a moral, all powerful god.
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Again, non-redemptive eternal punishment is not an idea defended by the Church (nor should it be by any empathetic person…imagine punishing a child for a mistake, but NEVER stopping). If you subscribe to that ideal of hell, then I have no issue pointing it out as immoral (and of course ridiculous).
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The existence of hell is an infallibly declared dogma that Catholics have a requirement to believe in.
 
WillPhillips said:
The idea of eternal punishment, that is non-redemptive, should abhor you.
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Why? It didn’t bother Jesus – after all, He taught it!
WillPhillips said:
this is not an an idea defended by the Church
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Do you want to reconsider that claim before you assert it so absolutely? It’s trivial to refute it. Ready?
From the catechism:
1033 To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God’s merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called “hell.”

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."617 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

1036 The affirmations of Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Church on the subject of hell are a call to the responsibility incumbent upon man to make use of his freedom in view of his eternal destiny.

V. THE LAST JUDGMENT

1038 The resurrection of all the dead, “of both the just and the unjust,” will precede the Last Judgment. This will be “the hour when all who are in the tombs will hear [the Son of man’s] voice and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment.” … And [those who have done evil] will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
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So… it’s not just “self-professed Catholics” who proclaim this doctrine. The Church herself does so!
WillPhillips said:
If you subscribe to that ideal of hell, then I have no issue pointing it out as immoral (and of course ridiculous).
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So… the Catholic Church is “immoral” and “ridiculous” in her doctrine? 🤔
 
WillPhillips said:
Again, non-redemptive eternal punishment is not an idea defended by the Church (nor should it be by any empathetic person…imagine punishing a child for a mistake, but NEVER stopping).
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no need to . for that misunderstands God and Man

E.G. Satan Shall Wind Up outside of Paradise because he Freely Wills to do so.

_
 
Nobody on here knows for sure what happens when we die. It is reasonable, as evidenced by the words of Jesus, that God is a God of mercy. Jesus himself said “I desire mercy, not sacrifice”. The prayer Jesus taught says “forgive us…as we forgive others”. What if that’s true? In the story of the Prodigal Son we may not remember that the story ends with the older brother on the outside looking in because he didn’t want to associate with those in the celebration. I believe hell is a place chosen, not one where you are sent. If a person has led a completely self-centered life, why would they choose a heaven based on love? I place my trust in a God of mercy. As Augustine said “love God and do what you will”. If you truly love God your life will “bear the fruits of a good tree”. If one has never know God because of environment or psychological factors, trust in the love and mercy of God for their salvation. That’s just above our pay grade.
 
First of all, Hell IS eternal. Our Lord Himself said so many times in the Gospel. Example: Feb. 16th Gospel (Byzantine Catholic calendar) was Matthew 25: 31-46 - the Sunday of the Last Judgement.

Origen was one of the first if not the first to deny that hell was and is eternal. Even though he recanted that teaching on his deathbed, his writings were condemned centuries later by the Fifth Ecumenical Council.

And if you read the memoirs of +Sister Lucia, she and St. Jacinta (whose feast along with her brother, St. Francisco was Feb. 20th) had a conversation about Hell:

Jacinta remained sitting on her rock, looking very thoughtful, and asked:
“That Lady also said that many souls go to hell! What is hell, then?”
“It’s like a big, deep pit of wild beasts, with an enormous fire in it – that’s how my mother used to explain it to me – and that’s where people go who commit sins and don’t confess them. They stay there and burn for ever!”
“And they never get out again?”
“No!”
“Not even after many, many years?”
“No! Hell never ends!”
“And heaven never ends either?”
“Whoever goes to heaven, never leaves it.
again!”
“And whoever goes to hell, never leaves it.
either?”
“They’re eternal, don’t you see? They never end.”
That was how, for the first time, we made a meditation on hell and eternity.

Source: Fatima in Lucia’s Own Words. 1976, Fatima, Portugal: Postulation Centre. Distributed by Ravengate Press, pp. 29-30.
 
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God and only God has the wherewithal to Judge the Hearts of Mankind.
 
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