Do plants/animals have souls?

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thats called instinct! …with the new deft.of the word marriage who knows what we are up against now by the ruling elite? From same sex partners to a man and his dawg and a woman and her plant also getting ‘married’. always beware the changing of words and their meanings…the supremes changed the meaning of ‘person’ so as to legalize abortion…thus what was meant after the civil war to prevent slavery was changed so as to return slavery to a once great United States…re: the devloping baby is not entitled to the protection of that amendment for it is not a person ,but just a bit of the temporary hosts body and therefor it…the mommy, has a right to kill it…may God have mercy on us!!!
 
to play along with your silly question…yes they do…as does water…so when I would assign posters to my art class I would allow them to make anykind they wish…within reason of course…if they chose one on the enviornment…dont eat meat…I would then explain to them that plants are sensitive to the sun and music so dont eat veggies also…then I would reveal that water has microbes inside of it that think and feel and care ,so dont drink water…dont eat meat,fish or fowl,veggies or fruit or drink water…all the rest you can have!!! most caught my message! You know darn well these things do not have an immortal soul why dont you try tennis as an outlet?
It is anything but a silly question! It is a very serious matter, and should always be taken seriously. This is for two reasons. First, the answer given reveals to us a clue as to how the universe is constructed. If it is a “yes,” as it was for Aquinas, then it helps to give us a fuller understanding of the universe as a sort of planum, a natural, ascending ladder. A second reason, related to the first, is that it can help us to define humanity. Understanding that we are, at least in a sense, animals gives us the power to determine what is animal in us, what is rational, and how the two may interact. It is a lot easier to tell what something is when you can see it in the context of a universal order!

-Leo Carton

P.S.
Saying an animal or plant has a soul does not mean it has a soul like we do. Animal souls, indeed, must be incredibly inferior to ours, at least in, say, clams. Otherwise, there will be no overarching universal order!
 
I sometimes wonder, if we met aliens, would we be able to tell if they were just animals or also people? We don’t always seem to have done well with even other human beings on this count.
What a fascinating question! It might help to read C.S. Lewis’ Out of the Silent Planet, where the protagonist deals with a similar problem. I suspect that meeting Adam and Eve would, unfortunately, bring a rather similar result.
 
What a fascinating question! It might help to read C.S. Lewis’ Out of the Silent Planet, where the protagonist deals with a similar problem. I suspect that meeting Adam and Eve would, unfortunately, bring a rather similar result.
Lewis has a short essay where he specifically addresses this topic too. It’s called “Religion and Rocketry”.
 
Especially for Nino:

"Consider the famous ‘Mu koan’. A monk asked Master Joshu: “Does a dog have Buddha-nature[a soul]?” Joshu replied: “Mu.” Doctrinally, the answer is ‘yes’ as all beings can evolve towards enlightenment (Buddha-nature[or Soul]). But Joshu deliberately does not answer with an unequivocal ‘yes’ or ‘no’ so as to demolish the monk’s dependence on scriptural logic. ‘Mu’ is the Chinese ideogram for ‘nothing’ which might also be interpreted as ‘no-thing’ or emptiness. With a single syllable, Joshu has revealed no-thingness as the core of existence.
 
DetaleWith a single syllable, Joshu has revealed no-thingness as the core of existence.s
Yes, nothingness is at the heart of Buddhism and most eastern religions; tragically so.

Happily for all of us, God is in charge and God is the opposite of nothingness.

May God grant you light, Annem
 
Nowhere in this entire thread is “soul” defined. Various posters seem to have their own vague sense of it, but neglect to express their understanding.

What are you people doing on a “philosophy” thread, except to worsen that dubious human undertaking’s reputation for meaninglessness?

Suggestion: Define precisely what you mean by “soul” in such a manner that its existence can be verified or disproved in the context of any application, whether man, critters, plants or rocks. Otherwise close this thread and discuss something definable.
 
Ah, GL, Annoying, yet dull by your own admission, but you have a point in this case. The soul, as catachetically understood by those who are Catholic on this thread, is that which chiefly makes Man to be in the image and likeness of God, it being capable of knowledge and understanding, and destined to live forever. Alas, it will not meet your criterion that “its existence can be verified or disproved in the context of any application, whether man, critters, plants or rocks.”

You are on the side of things that look at surfaces and take them as the entirety of the thing. You might look at a porridge-like brain and say “show me a thought. Prove it exists.” Clearly you have thoughts, GL, and we aren’t about to put you under a scalpel to find them, tempting as it might be. We could ask you to prove you feel pain. Meaning, the realm the soul resides in, is not accessible to empirical analysis. It is a subjective experience, influenced by integrity. So how about some slack for the believers who posit a noumenon called soul?

For me, my definition is “The feeling of Being I AM!” I can’t prove that either, except my feeling made me say those words. Or, I could say “MU!” You could think on that for a long time, or not, and at the end not be such a hard-onager.
 
Suggestion: Define precisely what you mean by “soul” in such a manner that its existence can be verified or disproved in the context of any application, whether man, critters, plants or rocks.
Soul can be defined in its application to humans.
If you want to include critters, insects, bacteria, plants or rocks, you will have to find another poster.

Soul is the animating principle for the human body. Since the soul is not material, it is spiritual which means it can be known by the tools of reason.

Soul can be verified by various human activities. Note: When exploring immaterial/spiritual of the human species, there is the risk of a circular argument. To avoid the circular argument, the spiritual element of the human being – all its qualities, faculties, actions, effects, that is, the spiritual shebang – is seen as a “whole” especially in contrast with other species.

Soul cannot be disproved by a material substitute.

Blessings,
granny

All human beings are worthy of profound respect.
 
Ah, GL, Annoying, yet dull by your own admission, but you have a point in this case. The soul, as catachetically understood by those who are Catholic on this thread, is that which chiefly makes Man to be in the image and likeness of God, it being capable of knowledge and understanding, and destined to live forever. Alas, it will not meet your criterion that “its existence can be verified or disproved in the context of any application, whether man, critters, plants or rocks.”
I am well schooled in Catholicism thanks to excellent teachers, and it remains my favorite conventional religion at the metaphysical level. It had seemed to me that given our shared understanding of the Church’s definition of soul, a question about whether or not plants or animals have one should have been swiftly buried in a handy landfill. That it actually invoked something that passes for conversation, as if the OP was relevant, both caught my interest and provoked my question.

You’ve answered the OP well. However…
You are on the side of things that look at surfaces and take them as the entirety of the thing. You might look at a porridge-like brain and say “show me a thought. Prove it exists.” Clearly you have thoughts, GL, and we aren’t about to put you under a scalpel to find them, tempting as it might be. We could ask you to prove you feel pain. Meaning, the realm the soul resides in, is not accessible to empirical analysis. It is a subjective experience, influenced by integrity. So how about some slack for the believers who posit a noumenon called soul?
You have interpreted my position from some assumptions you’ve made. Had you devoted a few hours of personal time to examining my posts on various issues, we’d likely not have been adversaries here or elsewhere. I am the enemy of the enemies of your belief system. That could make me a strange sort of friend. (Ever watch “Burn Notice?”)

While I love science, I find that it is poorly applied to the questions which interest me the most, such as the nature of man and purpose of the universe. IMO there is a shelf reserved in the half-vast library of the Flat Earth Society for Darwinism, neo-Darwinism, and Big Bang theory. None of our sciences have explanations for the human mind which come remotely close to explaining all aspects of human behavior.

However, science at least attempts to address these issues and answer these questions by all possible means, while religions throughout the world sit on the thumbs of founders who thought that the earth was flat.

I find plenty of evidence for the continuity of human existence post-death, and for intelligent engineering as a good working model for creation of the universe. I’d like to see those whose brains are thoroughly programmed for a particular belief system but who actually have functional minds, use those minds to consider that perhaps the ideas invented a few millennia back by people who knew nothing about the nature of the universe might just have included a few errors.

You’ve got such a mind, IMO. (Correct me if I’m wrong.) Surely you realize that the human brain is essential for thought and consciousness, and that it rots after human death. The catechism definition of soul does not deal with this obvious fact. That creates a disparity between religion and science. Would you care to use your God-given mind to resolve that disparity, or would you prefer to sweep it under some catechismic rug and return to watching “Howdy Doody” reruns?
For me, my definition is “The feeling of Being I AM!” I can’t prove that either, except my feeling made me say those words. Or, I could say “MU!” You could think on that for a long time, or not, and at the end not be such a hard-onager.
I think on everything long and hard, thank you.

Feelings have their purposes, but we both know that they are not rational. (If you disagree, have your IQ measured before and after falling in love.) My feelings about God, life, love, creation, and mystery have led me to the rational (IMO) opinion that of all the problems we are dealing with on this planet, none is more important than finding a scientific basis for belief in a Creator and a soul.

While these things are defined by prelates whose understanding is limited to the writings of men, declared by men to be the words of God, the forces of atheism are gathering and consolidating enormous power. (For the first time in human history, the free world is under the control of atheism.) Is it really asking too much to define “soul” and “God,” and question primitive definitions in the process?

That is why I choose not to reiterate the poorly considered beliefs of any religious systems, while still believing in a created universe. You could learn.
 
Soul can be defined in its application to humans.
If you want to include critters, insects, bacteria, plants or rocks, you will have to find another poster.

Soul is the animating principle for the human body. Since the soul is not material, it is spiritual which means it can be known by the tools of reason.

Soul can be verified by various human activities. Note: When exploring immaterial/spiritual of the human species, there is the risk of a circular argument. To avoid the circular argument, the spiritual element of the human being – all its qualities, faculties, actions, effects, that is, the spiritual shebang – is seen as a “whole” especially in contrast with other species.

Soul cannot be disproved by a material substitute.

Blessings,
granny

All human beings are worthy of profound respect.
Granny,
Good to encounter you once again.

Surely you know that I’d never have suggested that cockroaches or rocks have souls. I was replying to the OP.

“Animating principle” is not the definition of anything real. Do you figure that in return for being a good person, your “animating principle” will go to heaven?

If so, what might it be animating?

On a less serious topic, I’d like to quibble with your slogan, “All human beings are worthy of profound respect.”

Notions like that really confuse people. I do not regard myself as worthy of any respect, much less profound respect. This makes it much easier to deal with those sparse occasions on which I do not receive respect. It also allows me to deal with any personal objections I might have about that, personally, which is the only way that any human becomes worthy of respect.

I’d rather see an attitude from a fellow human than a slogan.
 
And, Greylorn, it is equally good to encounter you again.🙂
“Animating principle” is not the definition of anything real.
Do you consider that only physical or material things are real? The animating principle is neither physical nor material in itself. However, it gives life or fills with life the material body.
Do you figure that in return for being a good person, your “animating principle” will go to heaven?
That quid pro quo sounds likely.
If so, what might it be animating?
You, me, and other human beings.
On a less serious topic, I’d like to quibble with your slogan, “All human beings are worthy of profound respect.”

Notions like that really confuse people. I do not regard myself as worthy of any respect, much less profound respect. This makes it much easier to deal with those sparse occasions on which I do not receive respect. It also allows me to deal with any personal objections I might have about that, personally, which is the only way that any human becomes worthy of respect.

I’d rather see an attitude from a fellow human than a slogan.
Fiddle-de-dee. That’s my attitude speaking. 😉

By the way, I’ve learned a few new things about the soul and the human species since our last encounter on a thread. So I can say with confidence that you and the rest of us are worthy of profound respect – seriously.
 
And, a cheerful fiddle-de-dum to you, dear lady.
grannymh;5480365:
Do you consider that only physical or material things are real?
Surely you know me better than that. Perhaps not.

Misuse of language includes the mis-incorporation of technical terms into common speech. The word "physical"means, in the context of physics, something which interacts with some part of the physical universe. “Material” means of or pertaining to matter, which is only one aspect of the physical universe.

Blobs of baby poo are physical. But you cannot directly see or touch a blob of baby poo or anything else. You perceive the existence of the poo because of electromagnetic radiation (light) reflected from the poo. You cannot touch the poo because your fingers are repelled by the electric charges surrounding them and the poo. You interpret these ethereal electric forces as “touch,” just as you interpret reflections of light from a chunk of matter as direct observation of the matter. Do we need to get into how the human sense of smell works?

A decade ago some astrophysicists took a close look at certain deep space observations and inferred the existence of something very mysterious, which they named dark energy. They did not declare something really dumb, like, we’ve just discovered universal soul. They discovered something which they did not (and still do not) understand and immediately declared that it was a part of the physical universe.

Why?

Because it was clearly interacting with the physical universe. That’s what the term “physical” means to a physicist— it is something which interacts with other components of the physical universe. Matter is physical, which means we can observe it, experiment with it, measure it, etc.

Light is physical (not material). It interacts with matter. The universe is full of fascinating components which cannot be observed, but whose existence can be inferred through their interaction with matter. (Gravity, magnetic fields, etc.)

If there is a God Who created this universe, that God is a physical entity. He cannot have created matter without interacting with matter.

If there is a “soul” that can be regarded as meaningful, it must interact with the material human brain/body system. By definition it must be physical.
The animating principle is neither physical nor material in itself. However, it gives life or fills with life the material body.
This “principle of animation” you speak of does not represent anything real. Principles are neither real nor physical nor spiritual. How does this principle give life? How does it animate?

You’ve watched too many movies in which clever FX people make skeletons appear to move. Any high school biology student knows that critters move because biochemical structures (e.g. muscle) contain cells which can shorten in response to a biochemical trigger, using biochemical energy sources. The cells are part of muscles or related structures which are attached to two ends of a piece of bone, or sections of an exoskeleton, etc. The cells get shorter, the muscle gets shorter, the bones are pulled toward one another. That is the “principle of animation.” Physics, served straight up, describes the “principles of animation” which control bodies. .

But whatever the principle of animation might be, it must have something to animate. A chunk of raw muscle tissue electrochemically stimulated under a microscope might twitch, but won’t animate anything. It needs to be attached to parts of a body’'s skeletal structure.

I asked you what your “animating principle” animated. You’ve dodged that question poorly. Think about it. What part of you do you really expect to survive your physiological death? A surviving “animating principle” is worthless unless there is something tangible for it to animate.

What are the properties of the part of yourself which you expect to be animated post-death? Surely you do not believe that any part of your body survives— or do you?

By assigning meaning to nebulous concepts you serve the growing number of atheists who find religious beliefs to be irrelevant to reality.
Fiddle-de-dee. That’s my attitude speaking. 😉

By the way, I’ve learned a few new things about the soul and the human species since our last encounter on a thread. So I can say with confidence that you and the rest of us are worthy of profound respect – seriously.
Support your confidence with concepts. I don’t know what you’ve learned unless you choose to share it. Explain why, for example, Hitler deserves profound respect, I’m guessing that you’ve adopted an amorphous belief system which declares that all critters deserve “profound respect.” Personally, I reserve the right to make distinctions. I disrespect fools, chronic liars (politicians and lawyers), and child molesters. Any belief system which proposes that I should ignore these distinctions is asking me to be untrue to my sense of right and wrong.

I want no part of such a belief system. I’m not a communist, and “I didn’t vote for him.”
 
, I’m guessing that you’ve adopted an amorphous belief system which declares that all critters deserve “profound respect.” Personally, I reserve the right to make distinctions. I disrespect fools, chronic liars (politicians and lawyers), and child molesters. Any belief system which proposes that I should ignore these distinctions is asking me to be untrue to my sense of right and wrong.

I want no part of such a belief system. I’m not a communist, and “I didn’t vote for him.”
While I can grasp a little bit about basic physics, your knowledge is way beyond me.

As for human beings (even off-topic ones) the reason that they are worthy of profound respect is that they (even the very, very nasty off-topic ones) have souls. What a person does with his/her gift of soul is that person’s responsibility. Having a soul does not require that people like you and I should ignore distinctions. Having a soul is not like a vaccine giving one immunity from punishment for wrong doing. Soul gives one a sense of right and wrong and allows the person to do whatever.

Soul also gives one the ability to choose for himself/herself whether or not to believe in the soul’s existence.

Plants and non-human critters do not have the soul concepts described above. Speaking of plants, I don’t expect plants, especially cut flowers, to survive their physiological death which means they are quite slimy and smelly by the time I pitch them. Even though I am sure I will look and smell a lot worse after death, I believe in the Resurrection (being put back together with my soul).

I know from reading your previous posts that you do not share the same beliefs in the immaterial spiritual which I do. That, my dear friend, is o.k. with me. I respect your choice though I have my own personal opinions about it. Plus you can whine all you want, you, as a basic human being, are still worthy of profound respect. Are all actions and all thoughts worthy of respect? Speaking for my actions and thoughts only, I would answer of course not.

Unfortunately, I am getting ready to leave on a trip so must bow out. Nonetheless, I think I have answered your post in one way or another. Regarding plants and animals in this thread, some may use soul in reference to them; however, that kind of “soul” only connects them to each other or to us. That is as far as it goes for them.

If I have missed any other items, chalk them up to the fact that I still believe that my soul is that which connects me to God.

Blessings,
granny

All human life is sacred from the moment of conception.
 
A few posters above have, wrongly, stated that only humans having souls is the Catholic position. I’d be interested to know their sources, as I am quite positive that is not the case, as has been pointed out in the thread several times.

In any case, this question was asked previously in the apologist section - I’ll link to it in case anyone is interested.
 
A few posters above have, wrongly, stated that only humans having souls is the Catholic position. I’d be interested to know their sources, as I am quite positive that is not the case, as has been pointed out in the thread several times.

In any case, this question was asked previously in the apologist section - I’ll link to it in case anyone is interested.
Before I completely close down the computer. I believe that posters have stated that only humans have the Catholic concept or definition of soul. Your link above presents a clear definition of soul as used in other ways. Thank you for listing it.

The distinction between spiritual and material souls is essential. The Catholic position pertains to the spiritual immaterial and immortal soul. The Catholic position does not exclude material souls–which some have also called an animating or life principle of non-human animals and plants.

This is the source of the Catholic position which defines soul in the Catholic belief.
www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

Blessings,
granny

God is the Creator of all life.
 
Graylorn, re your post #50 this thread: Fascinating, and it made me laugh happy more than once.

I am well schooled in Catholicism thanks to excellent teachers, and it remains my favorite conventional religion at the metaphysical level.” Why? I think I might understand in that for my part, I have to deal with its shadows in my own mind, having been so well steeped in it for so long before it was suddenly and unceremoniously yanked out from under me. But what is your story?

You have interpreted my position from some assumptions you’ve made.” Natch. That’s why we have teleology and a capacity for conversational forgiveness. I’m “listening.”

“*Had you devoted a few hours of personal time to examining my posts on various issues, we’d likely not have been adversaries here or elsewhere. I am the enemy of the enemies of your belief system. That could make me a strange sort of friend. (Ever watch “Burn Notice?”) *” Well and intriguingly phrased! No, I don’t watch that, but it piques my interest. People who like spy stores usually have some aspect at least of intellectual ability, Yours is certainly admirable.

While I love science, I find that it is poorly applied to the questions which interest me the most, such as the nature of man and purpose of the universe.” I certainly agree. Science usually, and necessarily, is stuck in the lower right quadrant of the “wholeness” paradigm I try to use when looking at questions. That would be the field of group exteriors, or empirical study having to do with behavior as distinct from meaning. Science is not hermeneutics.

while religions throughout the world sit on the thumbs of founders who thought that the earth was flat.” Gawd, I thought I was the only one who thought that…😃

I find plenty of evidence for the continuity of human existence post-death, and for intelligent engineering as a good working model for creation of the universe. I’d like to see those whose brains are thoroughly programmed for a particular belief system but who actually have functional minds, use those minds to consider that perhaps the ideas invented a few millennia back by people who knew nothing about the nature of the universe might just have included a few errors.” So much packed into so little space! Yes, about after death on several counts. I can’t agree with Engineering, though, as for me it has a blatant flaw not yet addressed by any IDer. I see it rather differently, as design being unnecessary in the actual scheme, which IMHO is rather more glorious.

"You’ve got such a mind, IMO. (Correct me if I’m wrong.) Thanks, yes, I think so. Some of my friends claim that it is hard wired differently than most.

"* Would you care to use your God-given mind to resolve that disparity, or would you prefer to sweep it under some catechismic rug and return to watching “Howdy Doody” reruns?* (giving away his age he says: ) I’ve watched more than a few of those. But that was some time ago. I feel much better now…

"I think on everything long and hard, thank you. I’d assume that of anyone who could sustain a conversation with yppop!

"Feelings have their purposes, but we both know that they are not rational. (If you disagree, have your IQ measured before and after falling in love.) Feelings,…nothing more than feelings… Is there IQ after “falling in love?” But as a matter of clarifying definitions, I distinguish between grades of both sensation and feeling. I was using the word there to denote analogs of what happens after even a brief encounter with what might be called Beatific Vision or Nirvanic Consciousness. For me, one of the great metaphysical failures of Catholicism is the accounting for and actual promotion of experiencing this state. IMO the faith is actually a prophylactic in this regard, and had much to do with my leaving the Church, as well as seeing its history in a different light.

"*…none is more important than finding a scientific basis for belief in a Creator and a soul.
*Here I completely agree with you, save that I don’t think that science is up to the task, except as an exterior, what’s the word…indication of probability?? The ultimate proof is interior, experiential. That method has been extant at least for 5000 years, and is highly discounted by the Church and religionists in general. Unfortunately for their arguments, it works.

While these things are defined by prelates whose understanding is limited to the writings of men, declared by men to be the words of God, the forces of atheism are gathering and consolidating enormous power. (For the first time in human history, the free world is under the control of atheism.) Is it really asking too much to define “soul” and “God,” and question primitive definitions in the process?” One of the most powerful tools for swaying opinion is to invoke God. But ignorance is rampant, and based on the factors you name. And yet, even atheism is subject to Law in a deeper sense. It is yet a phenomenon that is classifiable as contents in awareness.

That is why I choose not to reiterate the poorly considered beliefs of any religious systems, while still believing in a created universe. You could learn.” Yes, that reiteration is useless, and even arguing against it tends to support it. As with all forms of awareness, the answer is not on that level. It has to be incorporated and transcended. And I hope to always continue to learn. One of my favorite ads was for the old Encyclopedia Britannica: “Here lies John Doe; dead at twenty six, buried at 89.”
 
Detales
even a brief encounter with what might be called Beatific Vision or Nirvanic Consciousness. For me, one of the great metaphysical failures of Catholicism is the accounting for and actual promotion of experiencing this state. IMO the faith is actually a prophylactic in this regard, and had much to do with my leaving the Church, as well as seeing its history in a different light.
This is a very, very strange claim. Catholicism a prophylactic against the Beatific Vision? Funny thing about all those hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of saints who did achieve it. Some flew forty feet in the air, like Joseph of Cupertino. Ever read about Christina the Astonishing? And surely the entire point of Catholicism is the achieve the Beatific Vision in heaven?

I am afraid I find your statements the reverse of the truth.

And surely “Nirvanic Consciousness” is the exact opposite of the ecstatic Beatific Vision. It is achieving nothingness, a blank, an utter hollow. You could call it death, in fact, as many philosophers have claimed.

Or don’t you agree?

May God flood you with miracles and light,

Annem
 
While I can grasp a little bit about basic physics, your knowledge is way beyond me.
I know, just as I know of knowledge I’m a long way from mastering. I was not trying to use it to impress you. I was sharing it with you, for the purpose of furthering your own understanding and inviting you to step outside a cocoon of beliefs which do not make sense in the context of basic physics.

Consider the possibility that the principles of physics and the biological workings of critters offer a much more certain truth than any words which human beings made up, because nature is God’s own bible. It cannot be rewritten by any prophet seeking to start his own religion. It cannot, over the long run, be misread by those few humans willing to examine it. It translates perfectly into all human languages. That is why Muslims can make bombs which work the same whether they are used to blow up Jews, Catholics, atheists, or themselves. God’s laws of physics transcend all human belief systems.

If you blow this understanding off on the grounds that it is beyond you (it is not), you rip yourself off, and dishonor your Creator by putting the writings of ignorant men above the clear truths He has made available.

As with most people who’ve lived exemplary lives and paid their tithes, you’ll likely show up at the Pearly Gates feeling pretty smug about your entry level qualifications. But when St. Peter asks you how it is that you, one of the few granted personal audience and query privileges, chose to blow off Greylorn’s brilliant and impeccable insights into the relationship between basic physics and the Creator’s nature and purposes, what will you say?

I know you :eek: don’t want to be stuck with, “Uh, duh…” as an excuse.

Maybe you will argue that the Bible didn’t say anything about learning physics. :confused: Whereupon St. Pete :rolleyes: will invite you to peruse Matthew 25:14 onwards, with particular attention to verses 26-30 which will allow you to understand why he is sending you back to planet earth as a nerd :cool: whose purpose is to graduate from M.I.T. with combined degrees in physics, astronomy, and microbiology, expecting nothing less than straight-A grades. 🙂
 
A few posters above have, wrongly, stated that only humans having souls is the Catholic position. I’d be interested to know their sources, as I am quite positive that is not the case, as has been pointed out in the thread several times.
Yes, ANIMALS AND PLANTS HAVE SOULS is the Catholic position! Likewise, I too want to know the sources of the alternative view that some of these Catholics have been holding.
Nowhere in this entire thread is “soul” defined. Various posters seem to have their own vague sense of it, but neglect to express their understanding.

What are you people doing on a “philosophy” thread, except to worsen that dubious human undertaking’s reputation for meaninglessness?

Suggestion: Define precisely what you mean by “soul” in such a manner that its existence can be verified or disproved in the context of any application, whether man, critters, plants or rocks. Otherwise close this thread and discuss something definable.
Yes, definitions are perhaps the most essential thing in philosophy. No defining things is the sign of the pseudo-intellectual.

Beside the “animating principle” definition, another definition (though not a contradicting one) used by the Catholic Church is … The [substantial] form of a [living] body. “Form” must be understood in the Aristotelian sense, which would (in short) be: that which makes a thing what it is.
The distinction between spiritual and material souls is essential. The Catholic position pertains to the spiritual immaterial and immortal soul. The Catholic position does not exclude material souls–which some have also called an animating or life principle of non-human animals and plants.
Amen.
 
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