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Aaron409
Guest
I was just sitting here thinking and was wondering if any protestant person has gotten the stigmata. Or if they even believe in that?
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Syele
Guest
I believe all things are possible with God. But I don’t know of any protestants with stigmata.
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christcnection1
Guest
I have never heard of a Protestant getting it. After talking about it with some of my Protestant friends, they believe it’s of demonic origin.
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JohnJFarren
Guest
JMJ / MMM 080513 Tuesday
Good Brothers and Sisters –
Years ago I remember reading in a Catholic book the story of a non-Catholic business man in Europe. I don’t remember if he was a Christian but it did point out that his interest in religion or worship simply wasn’t there. He rode by train a good deal because of his business. This man did get what appeared to be the stigmata. It persisted with him despite great efforts to be rid of it. He sought help from a number of medical people. I believe he sought help even from a minister who refered him to a Catholic priest. Nothing solved his problem. This “stigmata” interfered a great deal with his work. It was a matter of several months (a year or more? … I can’t remember). Finally it disappeared quickly and never returned.
It seems to me that if God gives the stigmata to anyone it would be a charism and would be for the spiritual benefit of many. I do not recognize any spiritual benefit for anyone in this instance. Therefore I question that it came from God as a charism. From the devil? I doubt it.
What then? Although we know some important things about the human mind – and some most mysterious things – we are only beginning in any depth of understanding. I strongly suspect the appearance of the “stigmata” in this non-religious man was involved with the whole history of the man’s psychology.
The Church always takes the initial approach of assuming a psychological origin or psychiatric origin to such mysterious phenomena. This is as it should be. Only when all natural explanations do not account for a mysterious happening or miracle or stigmata does the Church look for POSITIVE signs that might help establish that this matter is from God
John (JohnJFarren) Trinity5635@aol.com
Good Brothers and Sisters –
Years ago I remember reading in a Catholic book the story of a non-Catholic business man in Europe. I don’t remember if he was a Christian but it did point out that his interest in religion or worship simply wasn’t there. He rode by train a good deal because of his business. This man did get what appeared to be the stigmata. It persisted with him despite great efforts to be rid of it. He sought help from a number of medical people. I believe he sought help even from a minister who refered him to a Catholic priest. Nothing solved his problem. This “stigmata” interfered a great deal with his work. It was a matter of several months (a year or more? … I can’t remember). Finally it disappeared quickly and never returned.
It seems to me that if God gives the stigmata to anyone it would be a charism and would be for the spiritual benefit of many. I do not recognize any spiritual benefit for anyone in this instance. Therefore I question that it came from God as a charism. From the devil? I doubt it.
What then? Although we know some important things about the human mind – and some most mysterious things – we are only beginning in any depth of understanding. I strongly suspect the appearance of the “stigmata” in this non-religious man was involved with the whole history of the man’s psychology.
The Church always takes the initial approach of assuming a psychological origin or psychiatric origin to such mysterious phenomena. This is as it should be. Only when all natural explanations do not account for a mysterious happening or miracle or stigmata does the Church look for POSITIVE signs that might help establish that this matter is from God
John (JohnJFarren) Trinity5635@aol.com
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1234
Guest
The stigmata are of hysterical origin. They tend to occur in individuals, usually women, who are intensely religious, often in isolated, old world situations. They often reflect the appearance of a local large realistic crucifix. For example, if there is a side wound, the side (right or left) may vary according to that on the crucifix. The stigmata appear on the hands, though recent historical scholarship has shown that victims were usually crucified through the wrists as the hands would tear through the nails. I don’t know if there have been any stigmatics with wrist wound identified yet. Aside from those of Padre Pio, stigmata occur much less frequently now than in the past .
There is a very interesting documentary by Arthur C. Clarke from the 1970’s which I only recently found on VHS, about the stigmata and two women, both US citizens, neither RC who had them. one was an evangelist who produced them at Easter in time for her services; there is video footage showing them appearing. The other was a very nice young African-American woman from Oakland CA in the San Francisco Bay Area, who got them also at Easter for years, also at other times, much to the consternation of herself and those around her. Neither she nor those around her had ever heard of these manifestations. She was a member of a Black Protestant evangelical congregation. The young lady did not feel that she needed stigmata to show her Christian faith, and sought psychiatric treatment with hypnosis to rid herself of them. She succeeded in doing so.
The Italian Capuchins in Padre Pio’s order, however, got rich through the notoriety of his stigmata, and built a big basilica off the donations. Quite a different attitude.
There is a very interesting documentary by Arthur C. Clarke from the 1970’s which I only recently found on VHS, about the stigmata and two women, both US citizens, neither RC who had them. one was an evangelist who produced them at Easter in time for her services; there is video footage showing them appearing. The other was a very nice young African-American woman from Oakland CA in the San Francisco Bay Area, who got them also at Easter for years, also at other times, much to the consternation of herself and those around her. Neither she nor those around her had ever heard of these manifestations. She was a member of a Black Protestant evangelical congregation. The young lady did not feel that she needed stigmata to show her Christian faith, and sought psychiatric treatment with hypnosis to rid herself of them. She succeeded in doing so.
The Italian Capuchins in Padre Pio’s order, however, got rich through the notoriety of his stigmata, and built a big basilica off the donations. Quite a different attitude.
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christcnection1
Guest
Stigmata among many other things…
Through the grace of God St. Pio was a great miracle worker. Perhaps his life inspired many Catholics to give generously from their heart. In turn, the Capuchins invested this money to help inspire others for the Gospel, and in serving those in need. I can’t think of a single mainstream Protestant group (or nearly any other group) that holistically lives Gospel values as closely as the Capuchins, and Franciscans in general.
The Capuchins are far more rich in sacrificial love than anything else.
What attitude are you referring to?
Peace and Love,
JB
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Johndigger
Guest
Accusing Franciscans of being rich and selfish. Can you get any more ironic?
JD
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blossom02
Guest
Padre Pio never earned a penny from his stigmata… He used funds that were raised to build a hospital. He never used any moneys given for himself.
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1234
Guest
I can think of many groups, the Quakers, the Unitarians, the Presbyterians, the Baptists, the Methodists, the Pentecostals, who regularly and routinely tithe–that’s 10% of their GROSS income-- to support charities in this country and abroad to an extent that the world’s Catholics cannot match. Schools, hospitals, charities of every description. The Pentecostals in South America are running rings around the Catholic church there in the extent of their charities.
PP’s friars made a mint off him, even if he himself did not. The young lady in Oakland made nothing off her stignata and wasn’t interested in doing so. NO one made a mint off her.
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LDNCatholic
Guest
The ‘‘World’s Catholics’’ often live in poor countries (those South Americans the Pentecostals are ‘‘helping’’ are a prime example). The World’s Protestants usually live in richer countries, and are in a positon to tithe 10%. Many do, many more do not.
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Cathdefender
Guest
It is only the so called “rationists”, with their ever-doubting psyche who are too irrational to understand the rationale of a miracle.
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LilyM
Guest
Neither did St Francis himself - and he certainly never had his for long enough to make any serious money out of 'em even if he did. Both St Pio and St Francis went to great lengths to hide their stigmata from all those around them.
St Pio stated that he suffered pain consonant with the stigmata for some time before they became physically visible. How could anyone make money out of simply suffering painfully but invisibly? There are records of one or two other saints who asked and were granted to suffer the pain of the stigmata without any physical wound - again, they couldnt’ make money out of so doing. At least this shows that money wasn’t the motive.
And St Francis’ stigmata on his hands and feet reportedly had actual black protuberances consonant with the heads of nails sticking out of them - I can believe that a wound might be of hysterical or other non-supernatural origin, but could anyone hysterically manufacture a head of a nail to stick out of it as well?
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LilyM
Guest
Rubbish. Around the world, Catholic charities still do more than all the other religious and non-religious groups COMBINED. Nobody runs rings around the Church in terms of charity - no-one.
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Cathdefender
Guest
First, Padre Pio suffered the stigmata for fifty years. He bled for fifty years, up to a cup a day **without any infections **
Dr. A. Imbert Gourbeyre, a French physician, had enumerated 312 cases of stigmata from the beginning of Christianity to the end of the 19th century.
One particular is Therese Newman, a 20 year old peasant girl from Konnerseuth was a volunteer putting out a fire. It was 1918. She was standing on a chair passing pails to a man on a ladder, the heat was intense, . She felt dizzy and fell head first.
For the girl, Therese Newman, the ordeal had begun. She was badly injured. She was sent home from the hospital and was fast becoming an invalid. Her eyesight started going and by the end of 1918 she was bed ridden, blind and an invalid.
Fast forward:
Therese went into deep contemplation one day. She visualized Jesus with the cross on his shoulder. Thinking about the spear thrust into his side, she suddenly was aware of an acute pain in her side. She felt it and her hand was covered in blood. It continued for several hours witnessed by her sister-in-law.
On Good Friday the wounds appeared on both the palms exactly where Jesus was nailed.
**Therese stigmata remained with her for 36 years. She gave up eating for the last 35 years of her life! She survived ONLY on the Eucharist and nothing more.
**A saint who suffered our Lord Jesus Christ
I do not believe in any who “thinks” they have the stigmata. In the case of the black girl, she needed phychiatric help. Not one of the people you mentioned saw any visions of Christ. Therese Newman did, and so did others.
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lkddav
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LDNCatholic
Guest
Well said.
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Cathdefender
Guest
Hello Ikddav,
You can google her, but it is best that you read her book. It is all true and well documented. A true miracle from God.
You know who elses’s story I found unbelievable? A woman by the name of Anne Catharine Emmerick. Her book is titled “The Passion of Our Lord, Jesus Christ”. She lived EVERY DETAIL of our Lord’s death. Every pain, every sorrow (she too had the stigmata).
I once gave a girl who was very much into the Wicca, once she read this book, she converted. She thanked me so much and at the same time had great sorrow in her heart for not seeing Jesus as she should have. She is now a devout Catholic.
This woman, anne Catharine Emmerick was the one who said Jesus descended into hell (the creed) and took Judas out. She saw everything that went on. Quite a book.
You can google her, but it is best that you read her book. It is all true and well documented. A true miracle from God.
You know who elses’s story I found unbelievable? A woman by the name of Anne Catharine Emmerick. Her book is titled “The Passion of Our Lord, Jesus Christ”. She lived EVERY DETAIL of our Lord’s death. Every pain, every sorrow (she too had the stigmata).
I once gave a girl who was very much into the Wicca, once she read this book, she converted. She thanked me so much and at the same time had great sorrow in her heart for not seeing Jesus as she should have. She is now a devout Catholic.
This woman, anne Catharine Emmerick was the one who said Jesus descended into hell (the creed) and took Judas out. She saw everything that went on. Quite a book.
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wcknight
Guest
Priests and friars do not get rich off of anything. They all take vows of poverty. The suffering of Padre Pio was not used to line anyone’s pockets. The miracles and life of Padre Pio may hopefully bring many to faith, the one true faith. It’s insulting and degrading to accuse this great saint or his order as attempting to do anything but to help lead souls to Christ. In case you haven’t noticed they use much of the money donated to run a hospital for the poor. You would do well to get a book on the life and great work of this saint. It might convince you to join his order. In case you have not noticed, Capuchin priests do not live in mansions or drive fancy cars like your protestant ministers.
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Cathdefender
Guest
WELL SAID!
Furthermore, my awakening to Christ was THROUGH Padre Pio. This man was even able to read minds. He was attacked every day by the devil. Read the book if you further want to comment on this man chosen by God for his miracle. Did you know he also endured an operation without anesthesia? All documented by doctors and the like.
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mark_a
Guest
I don’t know about Protestants, but Muslims get the stigmata.
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