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joe370
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Wow fordhamstudent, awesome post!
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Papa_Paul
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The Protestants do not follow Holy Scripture.
Luther devised an alternative philosophy to oppose Christianity (Catholicism) and to free himself from his vow of obedience. Luther was a Secular Humanist and Relativist (as well as being Bipolar).
The Protestants believe there is no ultimate authority outside of themselves, as each individual determines what God can say, and where he can say it (Protestant Bible as directed by Luther). God’s message changes, relative to that individuals circumstance and lifestyle.
This Philosophy spread like wildfire to those hungry to free themselves from a God centered life of piety and allowed them free to “sin” to their hearts delight without fear of heavenly reprisal. After all each Protestant is a “Pope” unto himself, and infallable when it comes to his/her salvation as long as they can “cut and paste” quotes from the Bible to rationalize their thoughts and actions.
Quite rediculous actually, but people love the freedom to sin to their hearts content. Luther said “It is better to sin than to perform good works!”
Luther devised an alternative philosophy to oppose Christianity (Catholicism) and to free himself from his vow of obedience. Luther was a Secular Humanist and Relativist (as well as being Bipolar).
The Protestants believe there is no ultimate authority outside of themselves, as each individual determines what God can say, and where he can say it (Protestant Bible as directed by Luther). God’s message changes, relative to that individuals circumstance and lifestyle.
This Philosophy spread like wildfire to those hungry to free themselves from a God centered life of piety and allowed them free to “sin” to their hearts delight without fear of heavenly reprisal. After all each Protestant is a “Pope” unto himself, and infallable when it comes to his/her salvation as long as they can “cut and paste” quotes from the Bible to rationalize their thoughts and actions.
Quite rediculous actually, but people love the freedom to sin to their hearts content. Luther said “It is better to sin than to perform good works!”
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joe370
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batman1973
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Wait, what? SOURCES! I happen to follow Sacred Scripture very well, thank you. If you’re gonna post here, Charity and sources are needed
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joe370
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That’s the spirit…
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fordhamstudent
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There have been many books written about the man Luther with each author trying to analyze him from historical, psychological and theological methodologies. It is clear Luther thought from his writings that scholastic theology and the metaphysical ground it was founded upon was erroneous–an idea not novel with him as Catholic humanism was asserting in his lifetime. The essential values of Catholic humanism at that time was a return to Sacred Scripture and Patristic theology. Whatever prejudices we may have of Luther his insights on vernacular worship, married clergy, communion in both kinds, Scriptural literacy, catechetical formation, sacred music in the common tongue, etc, were notions already demonstrated in the Eastern Churches and insights which Vatican II incorporated into its program of reform and renewal. His sense of catholicity may have been limited by his experience and education, but Luther the man and his insights are a chief foundation of modern democratic society and our County’s existence would not have been possible without his break from the Catholic Church. He indeed could lay claim to being one of the forerunners of the Enlightenment and the separation of faith and reason that movement brought about. I have enjoyed reading Luther’s table talk with his scatological language about his enemies–it is rather humorous if not taken seriously. It is amazing that one former Catholic priest could change the world forever and Luther did just that. I may not agree with Luther, but I respect him as a man and I respect those who claim to be his followers. Catholics have within their breast the fullness of truth but we are not to be impolite and arrogant in our assertion of that truth. Love wins opponents more than bitter wine.
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Papa_Paul
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I have done extensive research on the Reformation and Martin Luther as well as his life and his works.
If you are serious about what you think you believe, I suggest you do your own homework. My journey into Protestant history left me sad for all of the well intentioned souls who are eager to critique Christianity (The Catholic Church, as it has been known since before the year 200 AD) and all the while, refrain from in-depth anaysis of the founders of their Protestant Philosophy.
Remember, it is based on one heresy after another, and the “demon of division” has led to their being somewhere between 10,000 and 40,000 different Protestant splinter churches or denominations or affliations or what ever you want to call them.
I assure you that what I say is true, but that means nothing and affects no one but myself. Truth is for you to discover on your own. You must perform the good works to achieve salvation, that includes an honest search through Church History. The Good News is, Truth does not change, but you first, must be open to it and seek it out.
Hope to see you all at daily Mass in the near future.
Father, Son and Holy Spirit, my Lord and my God, I love You, because You are always loving me.
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joe370
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I read your profile (the following); gave me a chuckle because I can really relate, and it is so true, even though so many people (at least in my experience) do not view things that way, but they really should; this side of eternity is but a blink of an eye:
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Porknpie
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fordhamstudent
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Protestantism is not a monolithic theological system nor does it contain a philosophy as such. To assert that there is a Protestant philosophy would necessarily be reaching. There have been protestant philosophers and theologians who developed a philosophical paradigm, but Protestantism as such is not a philosophical system. An analysis of Protestant theological ideas of private judgment and interpretation which could of led to the Enlightenment separation of faith and reason is more apropos. The use of the term philosophy in connection with Luther is de-contectualized since as you are probably aware Luther rejected philosophy, more specifically metaphysics, in intelligently explicating the Christian faith–instead he sought a return to Scripture and Church fathers who he could find to support his theological notion of sola fide. It might be more accurate to say there is a Protestant ethos rather than a philosophy which all sects stemming from the Reformation share.
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joe370
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Agreed. Conversely, Catholicism is a monolithic theological system, and sadly, protestantism has been fairly successful at fracturing said system. However, as the CCC reminds us:
"…But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ’s Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 - do not occur without human sin:
Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271
"However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272
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fordhamstudent
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Catholicism is not a monolithic theological system in that the Catholic faith is expressed authentically and yet with great diversity in both the Latin Catholic and Eastern and Oriental Catholic Churches. The Catholic Church allows for a diversity of orthodox theological and ritual expressions in religious orders, the Eastern Catholic and Oriental Catholic Churches united to Her and in the Roman Rite, as demonstrated in the ordinary and extraordinary uses.
I would say Protestantism rather has helped invigorate the Catholic Church as is demonstrated in the Church’s response during the Counter-Reformation. In fact the Protestant Reformation and the Radical Anabaptist Reforms only galvinized the Catholic Church in Europe to make it emphasize missions and evangelization. The Reformation also influenced the development of catechisms, christian education, and was responsible for the convocation of the Council of Trent which poured new life into the Church and also implemented necessary reforms including education of the clergy and a suppression of clerical and liturgical abuses. Protestantism was a tonic which helped the Catholic Church in Europe come alive and it was also one of the great influencers of the reforms in Sacrosanctum Concilium as demonstrated by the use of vernacular in the liturgy, communion in both kinds, more readings from Scripture in the lectionary, participation of the lay baptized in the Mass, etc. In light of this Protestantism has been a good for the Catholic Church.
I would say Protestantism rather has helped invigorate the Catholic Church as is demonstrated in the Church’s response during the Counter-Reformation. In fact the Protestant Reformation and the Radical Anabaptist Reforms only galvinized the Catholic Church in Europe to make it emphasize missions and evangelization. The Reformation also influenced the development of catechisms, christian education, and was responsible for the convocation of the Council of Trent which poured new life into the Church and also implemented necessary reforms including education of the clergy and a suppression of clerical and liturgical abuses. Protestantism was a tonic which helped the Catholic Church in Europe come alive and it was also one of the great influencers of the reforms in Sacrosanctum Concilium as demonstrated by the use of vernacular in the liturgy, communion in both kinds, more readings from Scripture in the lectionary, participation of the lay baptized in the Mass, etc. In light of this Protestantism has been a good for the Catholic Church.
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Papa_Paul
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I am not here to debate, nor am I here to play word games with semantics. I leave that up to the egg heads. I try to speak plainly so anyone can understand what I intend to say. I do however enjoy Karl Rahner and T. Aquinas (especially the Summa) both are fairly easy to understand.
I hope I was successful in communicating plainly and inspiring others to seek the Truth.
Jesus and the apostles pointed to the Way, the Truth and the Life but never chased after those who could not handle the hard teachings. “Are you going to leave me too?” “They were never believers.”
I also hope I did not offend, that was certainly not my intent. I would like to think my works inspire others to perform good works, then my salvation is positively affected. Faith without works is dead and works without Love are dead.
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fordhamstudent
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I commend you on your reading of the Summa Theologiae and that you find it easy to understand–Saint Thomas truly with the clearest reason and supernatural faith points us to our end in God. Cheers!
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batman1973
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Well, fine. I’m a papist.Well you…you…papist you.
And yer still a heathen for drinking with the Baptists at Buffalo Wild Wings! said in an Irish accent
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PRmerger
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Well, I like you, too. Haven’t had too many chances to interact with you…looking forward to more!
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joe370
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Nothing wrong with a little debate if done with charity, which you are showing; I always try to do the same…
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batman1973
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I dunno. Momma always said not to argue with people more intellectually equipped than I amWell, I like you, too. Haven’t had too many chances to interact with you…looking forward to more!
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PRmerger
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Aw, p-shaw!
shaw:
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benjohnson
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The first rosary I and my children said was at the October HHS mandate protest - I was curious about it, and a rather kind man helped us along.Ben,
I believe Luther was positive on these words:
“Hail Mary full of grace,
The Lord is with thee,
Bless art thou amongst women,
and bless is the fruit of they womb Jesus”
All from scripture…and attests to scripture in “all generations shall call me blessed”. Sadly, some “protestants” ignore Mary or worse. Luther did not.
You can certainly meet us half-way
I’ve often admited the evangleistic ability of the BVM among people who are hurt and need love, and I’d love to see a bit more of her in our churches.
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