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joe370
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As a former non-catholic I would say absolutely not. The practice of sola scriptura is found nowhere in the Bible, therefore sola scriptura advocates do not follow the Bible alone.
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Arrowsmith1994
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Would you protest if I said that the Bishop of Rome is the head of the universal church and when speaking ex-cathedra on matters of faith and morals, he speaks infallibly? Can someone be both “catholic” and “Protestant” at the same time?
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englishredrose
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Thank you so much and I like everyone do get involved in the wrong aspect of the debate sometimes. But yes I know from my time in USA words may be english but use them differently perhaps and causes a few rifts. A side step example I know once I asked for a plaster. The guy looked at me most baffled. I tried to define. Baffled. After about 5 minutes I ended up showing him my cut finger and all was revealed - ah you mean band aid.English,
In this thread you pointed out the following to me…I am not sure which post…I believe that this dialogue started with post 126…and thereafter.
You imposed a dissatisfaction and a judgement as to cause in my behavior. I believe that you mean well. I believe that since you are in England there are nuances of the language that differ due to the distance of the seas and the mother tongue unenculturated here.
I believe that perhaps your distraught feelings should be recognized as such and for that I ask forgiveness and beg clarification and understanding on your part for whatever is written on these threads.
My Father-in-Law was first generation Brit and spending time with him I realize and understand that there are nuances of speech and understanding evern though we speak the “same” language.
As an Anglican you have more in common with the OHCAC than the distant non-denominational although all these thoughts sprang from the same source. I cannot speak for Stew but for myself let me say that I shall endeavor to recognize that I am practicing the English that originated in your land.
Blessings…
Taps are fawcets in USA and those are obvious words… that I had to learn in return. We can be quick to jump especially when we are trying to defend its easy to do. Hope we can start again per se?
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Erich
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“America and England are two nations divided by a common language.”
- Somebody, either Oscar Wilde or George Bernard Shaw.
We have really everything in common with America nowadays except, of course, language'. But the 1951 Treasury of Humorous Quotations (Esar Bentley) quotes Shaw as saying: England and America are two countries separated by the same language’, but without giving a source. It had earlier been attributed to Shaw in Reader’s Digest.
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Aefensang
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I’d like to make a distinction that influences the whole meaning of the “Bible alone” doctrine. Since we get the phrase from Latin, it is important to understand the grammar.
There are two Latin terms at issue.
The full meaning implied in the abbreviation “By Scripture alone” is this:
Subject Verb Object Adverb
Christians know all truths necessary to salvation by Scripture alone
Solo scriptura, “scripture alone” is an exclusive adverb meaning: nothing but scripture. Classical Calvinists believed Solo scriptura; for example: they avoided using any hymns in their services other than the Psalms. Solo scriptura allows nothing in practice and life that is not expressly in Scripture. Solo scriptura is where fundamentalism and literalism came from.
Sola scriptura is simply: “allow nothing in holy doctrine & saving faith, that is not expressly in Scripture.” This means a Protestant Communion service, abiding by “Sola scriptura”, can use prayers and hymns composed by men - so long as those prayers and hymns express biblical truth.
Just thought I’d make a distinction.
There are two Latin terms at issue.
- Sola scriptura is the Reformation doctrine which means “by/through the Scripture alone”.
- Solo scriptura is an idea unknown to the Reformers, which means “Scripture alone”.
The full meaning implied in the abbreviation “By Scripture alone” is this:
Subject Verb Object Adverb
Christians know all truths necessary to salvation by Scripture alone
Solo scriptura, “scripture alone” is an exclusive adverb meaning: nothing but scripture. Classical Calvinists believed Solo scriptura; for example: they avoided using any hymns in their services other than the Psalms. Solo scriptura allows nothing in practice and life that is not expressly in Scripture. Solo scriptura is where fundamentalism and literalism came from.
Sola scriptura is simply: “allow nothing in holy doctrine & saving faith, that is not expressly in Scripture.” This means a Protestant Communion service, abiding by “Sola scriptura”, can use prayers and hymns composed by men - so long as those prayers and hymns express biblical truth.
Just thought I’d make a distinction.
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Hille
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Hillie,
Thank you for asking for enlightenment. I am not sure that I have much enlightening to offer. You would imagine that someone with enlightenment might be ablet offer such as you ask…however, the answer to that would be no,
Phineas spelled his name differently and if my memory serves me correctly, this Psalm was written well beyond what we would consider life expectancy for the time it was written…however I do believe in miracles.
PS, I go to Church on Saturday as do others if you look back on this thread.
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Hille
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Coptic— is the name significant-- like Coptic Church?
Why do you go to church on Saturday? (dumb question to some).
I read an interesting theory about canonization: true believers gathered writings they knew were valid and copied them for others; the time came when they had to decide which writings were worth dying for if caught with them.
Why do you go to church on Saturday? (dumb question to some).
I read an interesting theory about canonization: true believers gathered writings they knew were valid and copied them for others; the time came when they had to decide which writings were worth dying for if caught with them.
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CopticChristian
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SteveVH
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I go to Church on Saturday and twice on Sunday. I’m a music minister at a small parish.
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Hille
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Aefensang
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To get back to the O.P. and make a simple little point: it doesn’t really matter whether Protestants ‘follow’ sola scriptura. The doctrine exists of itself. Obviously credibility depends on how we live, but saying sola scriptura is untrue because no one ever lives it perfectly is like saying Christianity is untrue because Christians are dreadfully sinful.
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Hille
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I answered with a post, but it disappeared. Did you get a chance to read the quote from James Cardinal Gibbons book “Faith of our Fathers” that I posted?
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stewstew03
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It matters whether the doctrine is true, and in this case, it isn’t.
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pablope
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Here is proof of the result of SS…from the factual account of a missionary couple…How I solved the Catholic problem…freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1858224/posts
And finally, the Protestant notion of sola scriptura (the Bible alone) fell apart each time I tried to test it. I began to see that Evangelicalism’s insistence on going by the Bible alone led continually into division and problems. Worse yet, claiming to go by the Bible alone didn’t really provide any certitude of belief for believers. *
This realization was earth-shaking. I saw that evangelicalism had become, by its “Bible alone” principle, a religion of the literate elite. As a missionary taking the gospel to illiterate people, I realized I had to be absolutely sure, before God, that what I was telling them was, in fact, the Christian Faith, free from error. It had to be 100 percent Truth with a capital T. The problem was, using the “Bible alone” principle I had been taught, I had no way to be absolutely sure*
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With all the competing voices, how was one to know who was right? What mere man could stand up with a clear conscience before a group of illiterate people and say, “This is what the Bible means?” The sheer arrogance of what was going on made it difficult for me to listen to sermons after a while. All of them were “preaching the gospel.” But whose gospel? I wondered. Around that time, a more fundamental question loomed: What is the gospel? *
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PRmerger
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Then, I daresay, no one who accepts that bolded statement ought to object to Catholicism’s doctrines that may “exist of itself”: i.e. purgatory, the Immaculate Conception, Mary’s Assumption.
(NB: I am not proposing that the above Catholic doctrines do indeed “exist of itself”, for, of course, they are implied in the Scriptures. However, I am merely pointing out that if the paradigm for a non-Catholic Christian is that it’s just fine to have doctrines that “exist of itself” for their own denomination, then they ought to allow Catholics this same paradigm.)
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Mineral_Blue
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No truer words have ever been stated. I mean it!Only if It follows what thay believe.
I am currently meeting every Sunday with a Baptist, to discuss our shared Christian faith and to pray together. Well…
She is very critical of the notion of having a person such as a Pope. Alright. Then, when I ask her if it would be okay with her for me to read short clippings from, for example, St. Therese of Liseaux, et al, she thinks these are verboten because they rival the Bible. I told her: NO book rivals the Bible. However, many people since Christ’s time, have written eloquently with great love and unusual clarity about the journey of faith. And, many of those have been uniquely virtuous individuals whom we know to have been close to Christ. To that she says, “there are no people who are dead who should be called saints; we all are called to be saints”. 
HORSE BLINDERS, in my humble opinion.Then, when I ask her what they do in the Baptist Church, she says they do not need Baptism. Hello?
Er…Jesus was baptized and wanted us to follow suit. How is that following the Bible? And one time, when we got into a discussion of some really CORE beliefs and decisions, she spoke thusly: “Well, with that, it depends. We go by what our Pastor says. And, of course, if we do not like what our Pastor says, then heck, we just oust him and get another!”I’m coming to have a very interesting view of Protestants views on following the Bible alone.
As in: No, not so much. The Bible, perhaps, and the guy who was ordained and happens to be close to your house…
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ConsciousCoward
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I know that at least in Wesleyan theology, the Bible, while sufficient for revealing what is necessary for salvation, is not the only aspect of the Christian church that holds value. The idea is called the “Wesleyan Quadrilateral,” and it consists of Scripture, Tradition, Reason, and Experience. These are the primary resources for deciding matters of theology, and they should be taken as a group.
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PRmerger
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That sounds like a very Catholic approach!
Although one’s “experience” cannot trump Scripture and Tradition.
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ConsciousCoward
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True. Experience will support, not trump. The best quote regarding how experience relates is, “What the Scriptures promise, I will enjoy.” It’s personal and, for the individual, provides strong support for Biblical promises.
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Swiss_Guy
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Most do, or at least it is their final authority.
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