Do Protestants Really Hate Catholicism?

[DavidCatechumen]

Wow, great reply. Maybe you could start catechizing Catholics?

Thanks… but I have to get done with RCIA myself first.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Thanks… but I have to get done with RCIA myself first.

Only three more weeks!

I work with RCIA in my parish. Boy, do you guys set me on fire!

 

[Allymom]

Originally Posted by DavidCatechumen
So… how can one disrespect the Eucharist and be answerable for the Body and Blood of the Lord if the Body and Blood of the Lord are not there?

Upon realizing this, I began the process of converting to Catholicism.

EXACTLY!!! You took the words out of my mouth! Good answers!:clapping:

 

[LizS]

**Originally Posted by Jerry Marino **
so far on the promises of God, i have not found that works is included in the salvation equation,

How about Christ’s own words -
“For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds” (Mtt 16:27)

cf also:-
“For he will render to every man according to his works” (Romans 2:6)
“For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God … so each of us shall give account of himself to God” (Romans 14:10-12
“For we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ, so that each one may receive good or evil, according to what he has done in the body” (2 Cor 5:10)

Sounds to me like works are part of the equation.

 

[LizS]

Originally Posted by Jerry Marino
so far on the promises of God, i have not found that works is included in the salvation equation,

or again Christ’s own words about the sheep on his right who go to eternal salvation, and the goats on his left who go to eternal punishment. Both were judged by their deeds
(cf Mtt 25:31-46)

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

or again Christ’s own words about the sheep on his right who go to eternal salvation, and the goats on his left who go to eternal punishment. Both were judged by their deeds
(cf Mtt 25:31-46)

YES,GOOD AND BAD DEEDS BUT i DOUBT ANY CHRISTAINS WHO BELIEVE IN THE DIETY OF JESUS CHRIST WILL BE THERE. WHEN THE COVERED WAGON PEOPLE (SETTLERS) TRAVELED AND Set UP A TOWN etc ALOT OF PEOPLE NEVER SAW A CHURCH FOR A LONG TIME AND THEY KEPT THE FAITH AND PRAYED AND SANG SONGS UNDER THE STARRY SKY’S AND DANCED AROUND THE CAMP FIRES.THEY TAUGHT THEIR CHILDREN FAITH LOVE AND VALUES,DO UNTO OTHERS,TURN THE OTHER CHEEK ETC I’M SURE ALOT OF THEM WENT TO THE LORD.GOATS ARE A SIGN OF SATAN NOT OF DENOMINATIONS AND BELIEVERS,LOVE YOUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN CHRIST WEATHER YOU THINK THEY ARE SAVED OR NOT THAT IS UP TO GOD TO DECIDE.OUR JOB IS TO LOVE AND BE KIND AND GENTLE,YOU CAN DRAW ALOT OF BEES WITH HONEY,HONEY. LOVE OF CHRIST NANCY

 

[Jerry_Marino]

**HOPE:

1: to cherish a desire with anticipation
trust
transitive verb
1: to desire with expectation of obtainment
2: to expect with confidence : trust**

thank you and the biblical definition would be defined in hebrews 11:1 Faith is the realization of what is hoped for and evidence of things not seen.

 

[DavidCatechumen]

Hi again Nancy,

WHEN THE COVERED WAGON PEOPLE (SETTLERS) TRAVELED AND Set UP A TOWN etc ALOT OF PEOPLE NEVER SAW A CHURCH FOR A LONG TIME AND THEY KEPT THE FAITH AND PRAYED AND SANG SONGS UNDER THE STARRY SKY’S AND DANCED AROUND THE CAMP FIRES.

It’s not like you miss one Mass and go to hell as a result; God is much more merciful than that. (see my next post). Jesus judges each person according to their place in life, the graces they are given, and ultimately their love for Jesus Himself, since people are known by their fruits. See LizS’s excellent posts above.

Salvation is NOT by works alone (unless, perhaps, you are Jewish and follow the Old Covenant, but even then faith is implied by works). Faith is required for Baptism, which brings grace, the means of salvation.

THEY TAUGHT THEIR CHILDREN FAITH LOVE AND VALUES,DO UNTO OTHERS,TURN THE OTHER CHEEK ETC I’M SURE ALOT OF THEM WENT TO THE LORD.

Ditto.

I detect some subtext here, that you think that Catholics think that only Catholics go to heaven. That is a common myth.

This is the one Church of Christ which in the Creed is professed as one, holy, catholic and apostolic, which our Saviour, after His Resurrection, commissioned Peter to shepherd, and him and the other apostles to extend and direct with authority, which He erected for all ages as “the pillar and mainstay of the truth”. This Church constituted and organized in the world as a society, subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him, although many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside of its visible structure. These elements, as gifts belonging to the Church of Christ, are forces impelling toward catholic unity.

Lumen Gentium, II Vatican Council. There is no salvation outside the Church, but the Church’s saving power is not confined to the visible structure of the Catholic Church.

GOATS ARE A SIGN OF SATAN NOT OF DENOMINATIONS AND BELIEVERS

Note that Jesus refers to His Kingdom (not satanists) as containing both weeds and wheat. The weeds were planted by the devil, but they grow alongside the wheat. No goats here.

LOVE YOUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN CHRIST WEATHER YOU THINK THEY ARE SAVED OR NOT THAT IS UP TO GOD TO DECIDE.OUR JOB IS TO LOVE AND BE KIND AND GENTLE,YOU CAN DRAW ALOT OF BEES WITH HONEY,HONEY. LOVE OF CHRIST NANCY

No one is judging anyone here. We are out to seek the Truth with charity.

Judging is for God alone.

Love of Christ.

 

[LizS]

GOATS ARE A SIGN OF SATAN NOT OF DENOMINATIONS AND BELIEVERS,LOVE YOUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN CHRIST WEATHER YOU THINK THEY ARE SAVED OR NOT THAT IS UP TO GOD TO DECIDE.OUR JOB IS TO LOVE AND BE KIND AND GENTLE,YOU CAN DRAW ALOT OF BEES WITH HONEY,HONEY

Not sure I get your meaning. I was discussing good works being part of the equation of salvation, ie. doctrine, and whether we are saved by faith alone. I said nothing at all about other denominations not being saveable, and dont hold that view. Goats may be a sign of satan, but I did not link them with other denominations. Not sure how on earth you made that leap.

I was simply giving a scriptural reference to Jesus’ insistance that we will be judged on our deeds (as well as our faith). Nothing more!!

Not sure what point you are making re people praying and signing round camp fires either(or who you are referring to).

 

[DavidCatechumen]

Not sure what point you are making re people praying and signing round camp fires either(or who you are referring to).

Nancy is stating that a baptized person can miss Sunday Catholic Mass (due to distance or ignorance) and still go to Heaven without absolution, which is true so long as the other conditions for a mortal sin are not met (and so long as it wasn’t deliberate, which is a given here.)

 

[Jerry_Marino]

their has to be a proper thread for the debates about the law and all, God is Love and if one is of God then that person also Loves and i love you all.

1 John 4:16
So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.

 

[LizS]

Thank you DavidCatechumen. I am new to the Catholic Answers forum, and new to the Catholic faith too … still much to learn as was a long time with no faith at all, and not much knowledge of scripture.
God bless

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

Hi again Nancy,

It’s not like you miss one Mass and go to hell as a result; God is much more merciful than that. (see my next post). Jesus judges each person according to their place in life, the graces they are given, and ultimately their love for Jesus Himself, since people are known by their fruits. See LizS’s excellent posts above.

Salvation is NOT by works alone (unless, perhaps, you are Jewish and follow the Old Covenant, but even then faith is implied by works). Faith is required for Baptism, which brings grace, the means of salvation.
I’m not Jewish but the 10 commandments are a work of their own and they try to live by them.

Ditto.

I detect some subtext here, that you think that Catholics think that only Catholics go to heaven. That is a common myth.

Lumen Gentium, II Vatican Council. There is no salvation outside the Church, but the Church’s saving power is not confined to the visible structure of the Catholic Church.2NDTHES:2:13

Note that Jesus refers to His Kingdom (not satanists) as containing both weeds and wheat. The weeds were planted by the devil, but they grow alongside the wheat. No goats here.
I dont think anything can grow by the devil for all life comes from God.

No one is judging anyone here. We are out to seek the Truth with charity.

Judging is for God alone.

Love of Christ.

If faith is required for Baptism then baby Baptism is wrong? Nancy God Bless

 

[SteveGC]

If faith is required for Baptism then baby Baptism is wrong? Nancy God Bless

Infants are baptized on the faith of the parents, biblically shown as entire “households” were baptized.

 

[DavidCatechumen]

If faith is required for Baptism then baby Baptism is wrong? Nancy God Bless

No. (But I should have explained better–this is an apologetics forum, after all, and any omission will be used against you.)

As part of the rite of Baptism, the person being baptized confesses their faith. That is what I meant. Some sacraments require a disposition of the believer for validity (e.g. Confession requires contrition) but Baptism doesn’t–it’s just part of the rite. In the case of an infant, the (god)parents do this on behalf of the infant. The infant then grows up and renews the baptismal promises at Confirmation. (Baptism and Confirmation were originally administered together, but the Church splits them up for infant baptism.)

Baptism also forgives ALL sin, original and actual, and confers faith which is a grace from God. That, in a nutshell, is why it is OK to baptize an infant.

Here’s the CA explanation of infant baptism with more detail.

 

[DavidCatechumen]

I dont think anything can grow by the devil for all life comes from God.

Well, Jesus said the devil is the one planting the weeds. I take Him at His word.

2NDTHES:2:13

Here’s 2 Thes. 2:13:

But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth

Salvation is through faith and works, but the medium is grace. You might be thinking “predestination!” but nothing in the Bible states that God’s election is restricted to any group of people, or that people cannot choose to reject God’s love and go to hell instead.

 

[Jerry_Marino]

sigh:banghead:

 

[LizS]

Originally Posted by nancy dalrymple
If faith is required for Baptism then baby Baptism is wrong?

Infants have no faith but are baptised. Sanctifying grace is still received through baptism, at whatever age. All sins are washed away, including original sin - with an infant this would only be original sin.

The Church teaches that baptism is necessary for salvation as this is what the Lord himself affirms. He commanded his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptise them (cf CCC 1257; Mtt 28:19f)

As DavidCatechumen pointed out, there is no salvation outside the Church (cf CCC 846)
Additionally the Church states …

“Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of the conscience – those too may achieve eternal salvation” (CCC 847, LG 16).

but also note …

Christ “explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it, or to remain it”
(CCC 846; cf LG14; Mk 16:16; Jn 3:5)

[CCC = Catechism of the Catholic Church, LG = Lumen Gentium]

 

[SteveGC]

sigh:banghead:

Talk to us, Jerry. We don’t want you to be frustrated (or hurt your head )

 

[Jerry_Marino]

Talk to us, Jerry. We don’t want you to be frustrated (or hurt your head )

i can’t, i am speechless my friend this thread has taken on it’s own life, i’m not frustrated. there is another thread about being born again which would fit in with the topic of baptism.