G
grannymh
Guest
Welcome to the forums. Thank you for sharing.
Blessings,
granny
All human beings are worthy of profound respect.
- Status
Blessings,
granny
All human beings are worthy of profound respect.
W
wlychan64
Guest
If one read the bible carefully, any hatred or dislike is mostly disapproved in Jesus’s teaching. We must love each other including people with different religious beliefs.
Did Jews kill Jesus? True or not, do not bother. What counts most is what we could learn from the lesson that Jesus died for us. To me, I cannot die with Jesus but I can live with Jesus who is with me right now and encourage me to make the sharing with other belivers.
Did Jews kill Jesus? True or not, do not bother. What counts most is what we could learn from the lesson that Jesus died for us. To me, I cannot die with Jesus but I can live with Jesus who is with me right now and encourage me to make the sharing with other belivers.
J
JosieElaine
Guest
The Old Testament was written and completely finished 400 years before the birth of Christ . Just because they did not call it Bible (biblion, from Greek , meaning a book ) does not mean it did not exist already. What do you think Jesus was reading when he stood up in the Synagogue and read from the Scroll of Jeremiah ? All the four Gospels and the Book of Acts and all the Epistles were already written when John wrote Revelation .Revelation is the last book to be written .The books of the New Testaments were chosen after his death of course . But they are only a part of the Bible . Check your facts , dear …
JosieElaine
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wlychan64
Guest
I agree with the observations of Ms Elaine.
G
gdougher
Guest
What is all this talk of “hate” among Christians? We really should be ashamed of ourselves.
One must consider that there is a broad range of Protestants. Therefore, their relationship with Catholicism varies considerably. I have found that a lot of animosity among Christians is attributable to ignorance. If Catholics can explain their position to Protestants, then Protestants can at least have a respectful attitude toward the Catholic perspective, even if they do not concur.
A lot of the “hate” comes from political rather than religious sources. Who can deny that Christian history in Europe has been tremendously impacted by the political and milaristic relationships of kngs and nations, Catholic and Protestant? Can anyone deny that the interdemoniational relationships in America have been influenced tremendously by the arrival of immigrant groups and the resultant political movements?
One must consider that there is a broad range of Protestants. Therefore, their relationship with Catholicism varies considerably. I have found that a lot of animosity among Christians is attributable to ignorance. If Catholics can explain their position to Protestants, then Protestants can at least have a respectful attitude toward the Catholic perspective, even if they do not concur.
A lot of the “hate” comes from political rather than religious sources. Who can deny that Christian history in Europe has been tremendously impacted by the political and milaristic relationships of kngs and nations, Catholic and Protestant? Can anyone deny that the interdemoniational relationships in America have been influenced tremendously by the arrival of immigrant groups and the resultant political movements?
W
wlychan64
Guest
I must declare that the mail is sent from a small city in South East Asia.
The different between the Roman Catholic Church (RC) and the Protestants (P) are quite substantive as the Chinese translations of the bible used by the RC is very much different from those used by the P.
I was brought up in a Jesuit School run by RC priests. I used to find it difficult to follow the doctrines and formalities as I attended P church on Sunday.
Now, I could say that over 95% of the RC and the P are the same. There cannot be any dislike and hatred between them.
Although I am a Christian attending P churches, I never stop remembering all the good work provided by the Jesuits and the help of the RC to the poor. The acts speak for the Love of Jesus and his church.
I hope the gap between the RC and the P would sooner or later completely come to an end as we love, respect and worship the same Lord, Jesus Christ our Lord.
wlychan64
The different between the Roman Catholic Church (RC) and the Protestants (P) are quite substantive as the Chinese translations of the bible used by the RC is very much different from those used by the P.
I was brought up in a Jesuit School run by RC priests. I used to find it difficult to follow the doctrines and formalities as I attended P church on Sunday.
Now, I could say that over 95% of the RC and the P are the same. There cannot be any dislike and hatred between them.
Although I am a Christian attending P churches, I never stop remembering all the good work provided by the Jesuits and the help of the RC to the poor. The acts speak for the Love of Jesus and his church.
I hope the gap between the RC and the P would sooner or later completely come to an end as we love, respect and worship the same Lord, Jesus Christ our Lord.
wlychan64
B
byrdele
Guest
Hi there, fellow conversationalists! I’ve been reading up on this thread - interesting comments!
To start, I am Catholic.
Some Protestants, being human, even if they are committed Christians might hate Catholics. However, those who are truly Christians should come around and merely hate the doctrine if they will - we’re not supposed to hate each other and we’re known by our fruits. Sometimes people cannot separate the person from the idea. That goes for Catholics, non-Christians. We’re human and sinful, which brings me to my next comment.
I am so sorry that anyone, Catholic or otherwise, called someone a Christ-killer for being Jewish. And it wasn’t the Romans who actually killed Christ either. The sins of humanity killed Christ. And He gave His life willingly and is now alive and standing by the right hand of the Father as our Advocate and High Priest.
I find that strange, but I grew up in the Baptist Bible belt. There Catholics and what few Orthodox were there and Jews were the best of friends because we were all outside the religious mainstream.
I am Catholic but spent time in the Protestant churches. I found that there was a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding about how Catholic doctrine are based on Scripture. Also, if we truly wish to understand Scripture, then we take the modern archeologist’s stance: understand the history/culture/language/use of language of the time. Such as, the “Woman, what have I to do with you? My time has not yet come,” at the wedding feast when Mary tells Jesus that the hosts are out of wine. This is often considered by Protestants to be a rebuke to Mary. I looked up the Aramaic. Aramaic is a very contextual language. So you have to consider the context. First of all, a good Jewish son would have never, ever disrespected his mother - not in public or private. In fact, that goes for most of the gentiles of that period as well. The parents were king and queen always in the family. Secondly, “woman” was really an honorific title, better translated as “dear lady”. Third, the sentence is literally, in the Aramaic “What I…you?” which can mean anything from how we translate it normally (not a good translation, in my opinion) to “Dear Lady, what can I do for you?” That he added that His time had not yet come can be seen as just a comment, not a rebuke. Also, not that she does not ask him to do anything. She simply comes to him and, like a Jewish mother of that time, tells her Son that the wine is running out. She knows He will act on it if she tells Him. When He makes His comment, she doesn’t even wait but tells the servants to do what He tells them to do. He then walks over and performs the miracle. So in context, I’d say that there is no rebuke as is sometimes thought. But it really, in English and other languages, sounds very harsh. One more thing: we don’t hear the tone of voice. Ann Rice, although she uses the traditional translation in her book “Christ the Lord: The Road to Canaa” (historical fiction I’d highly recommend) has him teasing Christ teasing her and His mother teasing Him back. A possibility. Anyway, this is used to denote that Mary was not sinless, that she had no special status as Catholics and Orthodox believe. But if properly looked at, we can see that there is no indication of that.
As far as taking stock in Scripture, at one time yes, Scripture was fed to the people by the priests because so many people were illiterate, books were hard to come by so the Bible was chained to the pulpit in the church, and also there was the belief that there would be schisms after schisms in Christianity if people were allowed to interpret for themselves. That was a big reason for not wanting the Bible translated into the vernacular. It was not just that Latin was considered a sacred language. It was not to keep people from reading the Word. Also, Church officials were afraid that translations might not be accurate. Of course, we now read the Bible in the vernacular, so all of that is in the past.
The Church still believes that people need a lot of guidance while reading: provided by the Holy Spirit AND training to properly interpret the Bible. You should see the footnotes in my Bible - sometimes they take up half the page! But Pope John Paul made the statement “He who despises the Word of Christ despises Christ.” We are encouraged and exhorted to read out Bibles, to attend Bible studies, to read dissertations written on the Word by people who have studied the languages/cultures/history, etc.
I don’t really worry about who disagrees with my views. I don’t even care if people hate me for my views. I just don’t worry about it anymore. And I don’t even think it’s wrong if people tell me that I am wrong. That is just being honest. Some people believe that many ways lead to God, some don’t. Some people believe that all denominations calling themselves Christians are, some don’t.
As far as Europe being more fractious re Catholicism, it’s hard to say. I know feelings do not die as easily here (I live in the UK right now) as they do in the US. Anti-Catholicism is rife. You scratch the veneer and there it is. I guess about 150 years of legitimacy of the Catholic Church does not wipe out the anger of several hundred years. But even here, people who know me know I’m Catholic and they don’t get bent out of shape about it. It’s mainly the very secular press that does. But, that’s democracy for you, so I don’t let it bother me.
Well, I’ve been very verbal. Time for me to hibernate again. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
To start, I am Catholic.
Some Protestants, being human, even if they are committed Christians might hate Catholics. However, those who are truly Christians should come around and merely hate the doctrine if they will - we’re not supposed to hate each other and we’re known by our fruits. Sometimes people cannot separate the person from the idea. That goes for Catholics, non-Christians. We’re human and sinful, which brings me to my next comment.
I am so sorry that anyone, Catholic or otherwise, called someone a Christ-killer for being Jewish. And it wasn’t the Romans who actually killed Christ either. The sins of humanity killed Christ. And He gave His life willingly and is now alive and standing by the right hand of the Father as our Advocate and High Priest.
I find that strange, but I grew up in the Baptist Bible belt. There Catholics and what few Orthodox were there and Jews were the best of friends because we were all outside the religious mainstream.
I am Catholic but spent time in the Protestant churches. I found that there was a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding about how Catholic doctrine are based on Scripture. Also, if we truly wish to understand Scripture, then we take the modern archeologist’s stance: understand the history/culture/language/use of language of the time. Such as, the “Woman, what have I to do with you? My time has not yet come,” at the wedding feast when Mary tells Jesus that the hosts are out of wine. This is often considered by Protestants to be a rebuke to Mary. I looked up the Aramaic. Aramaic is a very contextual language. So you have to consider the context. First of all, a good Jewish son would have never, ever disrespected his mother - not in public or private. In fact, that goes for most of the gentiles of that period as well. The parents were king and queen always in the family. Secondly, “woman” was really an honorific title, better translated as “dear lady”. Third, the sentence is literally, in the Aramaic “What I…you?” which can mean anything from how we translate it normally (not a good translation, in my opinion) to “Dear Lady, what can I do for you?” That he added that His time had not yet come can be seen as just a comment, not a rebuke. Also, not that she does not ask him to do anything. She simply comes to him and, like a Jewish mother of that time, tells her Son that the wine is running out. She knows He will act on it if she tells Him. When He makes His comment, she doesn’t even wait but tells the servants to do what He tells them to do. He then walks over and performs the miracle. So in context, I’d say that there is no rebuke as is sometimes thought. But it really, in English and other languages, sounds very harsh. One more thing: we don’t hear the tone of voice. Ann Rice, although she uses the traditional translation in her book “Christ the Lord: The Road to Canaa” (historical fiction I’d highly recommend) has him teasing Christ teasing her and His mother teasing Him back. A possibility. Anyway, this is used to denote that Mary was not sinless, that she had no special status as Catholics and Orthodox believe. But if properly looked at, we can see that there is no indication of that.
As far as taking stock in Scripture, at one time yes, Scripture was fed to the people by the priests because so many people were illiterate, books were hard to come by so the Bible was chained to the pulpit in the church, and also there was the belief that there would be schisms after schisms in Christianity if people were allowed to interpret for themselves. That was a big reason for not wanting the Bible translated into the vernacular. It was not just that Latin was considered a sacred language. It was not to keep people from reading the Word. Also, Church officials were afraid that translations might not be accurate. Of course, we now read the Bible in the vernacular, so all of that is in the past.
The Church still believes that people need a lot of guidance while reading: provided by the Holy Spirit AND training to properly interpret the Bible. You should see the footnotes in my Bible - sometimes they take up half the page! But Pope John Paul made the statement “He who despises the Word of Christ despises Christ.” We are encouraged and exhorted to read out Bibles, to attend Bible studies, to read dissertations written on the Word by people who have studied the languages/cultures/history, etc.
I don’t really worry about who disagrees with my views. I don’t even care if people hate me for my views. I just don’t worry about it anymore. And I don’t even think it’s wrong if people tell me that I am wrong. That is just being honest. Some people believe that many ways lead to God, some don’t. Some people believe that all denominations calling themselves Christians are, some don’t.
As far as Europe being more fractious re Catholicism, it’s hard to say. I know feelings do not die as easily here (I live in the UK right now) as they do in the US. Anti-Catholicism is rife. You scratch the veneer and there it is. I guess about 150 years of legitimacy of the Catholic Church does not wipe out the anger of several hundred years. But even here, people who know me know I’m Catholic and they don’t get bent out of shape about it. It’s mainly the very secular press that does. But, that’s democracy for you, so I don’t let it bother me.
Well, I’ve been very verbal. Time for me to hibernate again. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
W
wlychan64
Guest
The last post is good
I guess that there is little problem in the UK as the Church of England followed closely the Roman Catholic Church.
However, in the US, I guess the difference between the two churches are much bigger and obvious.
Am I right? anyone from the US and the UK could assist me?
I guess that there is little problem in the UK as the Church of England followed closely the Roman Catholic Church.
However, in the US, I guess the difference between the two churches are much bigger and obvious.
Am I right? anyone from the US and the UK could assist me?
T
ted_ray
Guest
I think the church of england has accepted openly homosexual clergy, and is there-fore losing lots of members to the Catholic Church.
W
wlychan64
Guest
Once again, I find the so called ‘hatred’ silly and discouraging. To cut a long story short, I take the view that the Catholic church and Protestants are brothers/sisters and we are 95% the same.
As a protestant, I have some reservations about ‘Holy Mary’ and ‘the Pope’ but I respect them especially the last pope. I also admire the courage and faith showen by Mary when she was told that she will be the mother of our salvation Jesus.
In conclusion, let us look forward and hope that there are more positive discussions.
By the way, I learn that the Church of England is going to be reunited with the Roman Catholic Church. If this is true, this is a good news
As a protestant, I have some reservations about ‘Holy Mary’ and ‘the Pope’ but I respect them especially the last pope. I also admire the courage and faith showen by Mary when she was told that she will be the mother of our salvation Jesus.
In conclusion, let us look forward and hope that there are more positive discussions.
By the way, I learn that the Church of England is going to be reunited with the Roman Catholic Church. If this is true, this is a good news
G
gookykookypig
Guest
It’s my time to speak I guess.
Yes, that post of mine is geographically and culturally influenced, and it mirrors the condition of the dealings of both Roman Catholics and Protestants here in the little corner of South East Asia and to the wall of the Western Pacific.
Sorry for having generalized the term. Although the Pentecostal bus thing is a different story to my conversation with a young Baptist, it seems to me that the moderator had merged those two originally distinct aspects and I thank the moderator for that.
The problem with the social flora and fauna of the Philippines regarding religious tolerance is very abyssal. There is a deep grudge between the two religious fraction. I think it is a cultural tendency we have as Filipinos. Filipinos, being colonized by three foreign powers in succession had incubated and suppressed negative emotions inside them and like a metal spring, the more force it is pressed the more it will counter the force. The attitude was retained but with a pinch of tolerance and understanding it was neutralized.
Unlike some people, we Filipinos are very conscious of our identity. It is inevitable for us to talk about religious differences. The best part in us is that we don’t push the vault too much further when we see the floor cracking. That’s how sensitive the Filipino is.
Unlike Western nations, the Philippines had never been seeded by the effects of the reformation that had done horribly to the face of Europe in the past. However, it seemed to me that Filipino Protestants acquired the same degree of the original Protestant animosity . In America and in other countries, I think it is different (?). There, some people might exchange positive views with each other’s beliefs (?). Here in the Philippines, we do not. We exchange gossips about religious imperfections inside and outside of our own respective affiliations, and even if we do not, we do not want to hear of any thing about outsiders.
The term “animosity to Satan itself” although presented there (in my first post) to look like my own opinion, is actually the opinion of my Baptist friend. I had realized what made him talk that way. People here are afraid of committing mistakes much more of finding himself** inside** a very big mistake. Being under supreme foreign rulers through a long time, Filipinos are afraid of being looked down by anybody even by fellow Filipinos. However, the fear of having committed a mistake is man’s nature inherited from our first parents. Remember the finger-pointing of Brad and Ange… ow, I mean Adam and Eve ? Pride is man’s inner sadist and people here are unaware of this.
To clear things up, my original intention for this is to present to you the social barometer that we have here and my second purpose for this is to know if the same is happening beyond our Philippine shores. I have read some positive and correctional replies and I am happy that I had realized things more than I expected.
God bless you all! By the way I am a Filipino ex-Protestant. Please visit our Filipino Catholic Blog below.
i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq143/katolikongtunay/visit.gif
Yes, that post of mine is geographically and culturally influenced, and it mirrors the condition of the dealings of both Roman Catholics and Protestants here in the little corner of South East Asia and to the wall of the Western Pacific.
Sorry for having generalized the term. Although the Pentecostal bus thing is a different story to my conversation with a young Baptist, it seems to me that the moderator had merged those two originally distinct aspects and I thank the moderator for that.
The problem with the social flora and fauna of the Philippines regarding religious tolerance is very abyssal. There is a deep grudge between the two religious fraction. I think it is a cultural tendency we have as Filipinos. Filipinos, being colonized by three foreign powers in succession had incubated and suppressed negative emotions inside them and like a metal spring, the more force it is pressed the more it will counter the force. The attitude was retained but with a pinch of tolerance and understanding it was neutralized.
Unlike some people, we Filipinos are very conscious of our identity. It is inevitable for us to talk about religious differences. The best part in us is that we don’t push the vault too much further when we see the floor cracking. That’s how sensitive the Filipino is.
Unlike Western nations, the Philippines had never been seeded by the effects of the reformation that had done horribly to the face of Europe in the past. However, it seemed to me that Filipino Protestants acquired the same degree of the original Protestant animosity . In America and in other countries, I think it is different (?). There, some people might exchange positive views with each other’s beliefs (?). Here in the Philippines, we do not. We exchange gossips about religious imperfections inside and outside of our own respective affiliations, and even if we do not, we do not want to hear of any thing about outsiders.
The term “animosity to Satan itself” although presented there (in my first post) to look like my own opinion, is actually the opinion of my Baptist friend. I had realized what made him talk that way. People here are afraid of committing mistakes much more of finding himself** inside** a very big mistake. Being under supreme foreign rulers through a long time, Filipinos are afraid of being looked down by anybody even by fellow Filipinos. However, the fear of having committed a mistake is man’s nature inherited from our first parents. Remember the finger-pointing of Brad and Ange… ow, I mean Adam and Eve ? Pride is man’s inner sadist and people here are unaware of this.
To clear things up, my original intention for this is to present to you the social barometer that we have here and my second purpose for this is to know if the same is happening beyond our Philippine shores. I have read some positive and correctional replies and I am happy that I had realized things more than I expected.
God bless you all! By the way I am a Filipino ex-Protestant. Please visit our Filipino Catholic Blog below.
i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq143/katolikongtunay/visit.gif
B
Boxcar
Guest
I read on Love this last week , that if we hate one person we have to hate them all…
J
JosieElaine
Guest
You are absolutely right !
I am a Baptist and I have never , never heard a word against Catholics in my church . We do not even speak about them in the church . We speak about God . My whole family is Catholic and of course I do not hate them . All this talk about supposedly hating one another perpetuates the idea of hate .
I am a Baptist and I have never , never heard a word against Catholics in my church . We do not even speak about them in the church . We speak about God . My whole family is Catholic and of course I do not hate them . All this talk about supposedly hating one another perpetuates the idea of hate .
B
bksumm
Guest
I humbly write this as a 47 year-old Catholic convert from Evangelical Protestantism from the Southern US. Still wet from swimming the Tiber.
My experience informs me that:
Finally, in this dangerous time, we need to stand together for Christian values in an ever secularized society.
In Christ
My experience informs me that:
- Many mainline Protestants (Episcopalian, Lutheran, Methodist) don’t hate Catholics or Catholicism. I have heard some good, productive theological dialogue from those people.
- Most Evangelical Christians in the South don’t hate Catholics…they hate what they think is Catholic doctrine. I say what they “think” because their knowledge of Catholic doctrine is usually based upon anti-Catholic propaganda. I believe they have good intentions, I cannot judge them, but they are misinformed.
- Both sides take cheap shots.
Finally, in this dangerous time, we need to stand together for Christian values in an ever secularized society.
In Christ
B
Bellus
Guest
As a Christian who is also a non-Catholic I can truthfully say that I do not hate Catholics. What I dislike is the idea that only Catholics will go to heaven. If that is true, then the statement that Jesus made to call upon His name and you SHALL be saved would have been useless. I have the assurance that I WILL be in heaven with my Father. I can honestly say that I do believe that the Catholic church was the very first organized church and that I hold much respect for that organization. But I disagree with the concept of having to officially belong to it in order for God to accept me into His Holy family. I know who my Father is and I accept His free gift of Grace through the shed blood of Jesus.
N
nancy_dalrymple
Guest
Then theres the answer to the question!!! He surely does not hate the Catholics and is willing to stand up for them,see why it does not realy matter what you are as long as you believe in Christ we are not all from the same tribe or country but we all love Christ.The correction will come from the pulpet first and all those who cause others to fall will be harshly judged by God, it’s the SHEPARDS who are wrong not the SHEEP.My Sheep follow me where ever I go not the Shepards Jesus said “Do as they say,but do not do what they do”
God Bless Nancy
F
Ferde_Rombola
Guest
Timothy 3:16 doesn’t say Scripture means what it says, nor does it say Scripture is the only source of truth. It doesn’t even say Scripture is essential to an understanding of truth. It says Scripture is “useful.” Not really much to hang our hats on.
You’re still hedging. You seem reluctant to answer a ‘yes-or-no’ question with yes or no. Once again, do you believe Scripture means what it says?
N
nancy_dalrymple
Guest
POINT!!!
iT DID NOT SOUND LIKE WE WERE DISCUSSING MEMBERS BUT LOVE No one looses anyone. People are known to migrate alot and some never stay put.There are many differnt reasons people go to differnt churches,many reasons.and vise-versa. Love of Christ Nancy
F
Ferde_Rombola
Guest
Excellent message, Rob. That has been my experience as well. ‘Willful and obstinate ignorance’ is my way of expressing it. With a robotic certainty they are right fueled by a consistant rejection and re-writing of the words of Scripture. And, yes, there is much hate and ill will there, too. Other than that, some of them are nice people.
F
Ferde_Rombola
Guest
Piusx;4924894**The Jesuits have caused more damage to the Holy Church than all the protestants combined in the last 50 yrs. [/quote said:
- Status