Do Protestants Really Hate Catholicism?

[Lief_Erikson]

Really good explanations, DavidCatechumen!

I also really like your point about Purgatory being a state of being. That is exactly in line with the Church’s teaching about Heaven and Hell, for it teaches that these are states of being, being in the presence of God or being outside the presence of God. Purgatory fits into that same framework very smoothly, as the state of being of a soul that is still attached to the world and hasn’t yet let go of all its sin so that Christ can make Himself one with it entirely.

 

[Jerry_Marino]

The Catholic Church teaches that ANYONE can baptize in an emergency. [CCC 1256] No need to be a priest or even be Catholic! So your Baptism of your grandson was valid.

And what did that Baptism do for your grandson?

Edit: This is Romans 5:3-8. The word of the Lord.

The Catholic Church also teaches that upon passing from this world, one immediately passes into the presence of God. Only God can judge a soul–not me, and certainly no church, even the Catholic Church can do that–but I believe that your grandson passed directly into the arms of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[DavidCatechumen]

Jerry,

There is no inconsistency between my statements. Sorry.

Here is what I said with [emphasis]:

Jesus, the only Judge, either embraces one [Heaven or Purgatory] or casts one away [hell]. However, after He hugs you, He may tell you you aren’t quite ready for Heaven just yet, as I’ll explain [Purgatory].

Remember that baptism remits all sin and attachment to sin. Since Nancy’s grandson was baptized right before he died, he died in the state of grace (perfectly united to Jesus, no sin in the way) and bypassed Purgatory, going straight into Heaven.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Sometimes I wonder if people are really READING posts. It seems like people put words in our mouths. Nancy-when we say we must go through a purgation process to enter Heaven, how does that negate that Jesus died for our sins? This is just an example.

Back to the topic, many years ago, when I was living in Cincinnati, I joined a nondenominational Bible study group for women. I was the only Catholic in the group. When the leader said Catholics changed the Bible by omitting “for the kingdom, the power, and the glory are thine, now and forever.” I spoke up and asked where that was in the Bible because that verse was not in my Revised Standard Version. They couldn’t find it in their Bibles either. Then one of the women said she could never marry anyone who was not a Christian. She went on to say that her husband used to be a Catholic, so of course he needed to be converted. She made him go out onto the balcony and shout, “Jesus is my personal Lord and Savior.” And then renounce the Catholic Church. I was horrified and reported them to the head office. That’s when I found out “nondenominational” meant fundamentalist evangelical. I stayed in the group, because I felt God put me there for a reason. They had many misconceptions about what the CC teaches. I wanted to witness that Catholics really believed in the Bible and in the saving power of Jesus. I was told I was not like most Catholics. They kept interjecting snide little asides about what Catholics believe. After three years, I couldn’t take the put-downs any more. I hope I made a difference. Several of the women privately told me they thought “some Catholics might be in Heaven, and that I was one of them.”

Now, I grew up Catholic, and my dad and his side of the family were Lutheran (MO Synod), and I had never heard any hate of the CC until that Bible study. I never heard any hate from my Catholic school teachers that my dad and nonCatholics would go to Hell. My mother had a great deal of respect for my dad and his faith. My dad had a great love for Jesus and his church. I learned a lot from him.

Josie, Nancy, Jerry, Maranatha, I encourage you to continue participating in these forums. I think you will learn a lot. I learn every day from lurking here. I think a lot of what nonCatholics don’t like is what they THINK Catholic teaching implies. Such as belief in Purgatory somehow denies the saving power of Jesus’ death and resurrection.

God bless, and let’s remember we are all members of the Body of Christ

 

[Jerry_Marino]

remit:
To transmit (money) in payment.
To refrain from exacting (a tax or penalty, for example); cancel.
To pardon; forgive: remitted their sins.
To restore to a former condition or position.
Law
To refer (a case) to another court for further consideration or action.
To refer (a matter) to a committee or authority for decision.

remission:
The act of remitting.
A condition or period in which something is remitted.
A lessening of intensity or degree; abatement.
Medicine Abatement or subsiding of the symptoms of a disease.
The period during which the symptoms of a disease abate or subside.
Release, as from a debt, penalty, or obligation.
Forgiveness; pardon.

now use it with the context of the verse which you all use to defend ‘water baptism’, afterwards use it in the context of what Christ did for you on the Cross.

God bless you.

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

Yes. But that was in A.D. 34, on the original Easter Sunday. Purgatory did not cease to exist at the time that the Old Testament Saints were taken up to Heaven, otherwise it would not be described in 1 Corinthians 3:15, which was written long after Jesus ascended into Heaven. Jesus still does return to minister those who are in Purgatory today, just as He did during His time in the tomb. That is why we pray for the holy souls in Purgatory and ask for Jesus to help them into Heaven. You can only relate one scripture to Purgatory?I Cor:3:15 The Holy Spirit is the flame and God test’s each of us he is a comsuming flame.Jesus took the key to the abyss and opened the gates of heaven I learned that when I was a Catholic yrs.ago.And you cannot do anything for the dead for the dead know nothing they are in a differnt realm.PS No holy soul goes to purgatory.Nancy

Purgatory is not there because God is luke-warm, but because WE are often luke-warm about our love for God! Yes and so he say’s be either hot or cold for if you are luke warm I will spou you out of my mouth Nancy

Because we are still sinners. Jesus’ one sacrifice is sufficient atonement for our sins, therefore, He has the power to set us free. However, Jesus also calls us to pick up our cross and follow Him and to love Him and not the world. Purgatory is not about Jesus not being powerful enough to save us, it is about US not letting go of the world and letting Him into our lives.If you love me you love the Father,when you pray ask the Father anything in my name and it shall be given unto you,ASK WHO? THE FATHER,PRAY to WHO?To the FATHER.All the praise,honor and Glory goes to the Father.You must love the Father first and pray in Jesus name,John:3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whom ever belives on him shall not perish but have everlasting life.God gave theGift.Jesus is the Gift. Nancy When he sets you free you are free indeed.

So this is going back to the whole “Once Saved, Always Saved” thing which you already stated that you do NOT believe in, and rightly so. We have free will, we can reject God, we can sin and we have to be reconciled to Him when that occurs. **Edit: ** Purgatory is what happens when we are not fully reconciled to Christ at our death. (As I think you understand, Purgatory is completely different than hell, which is what happens when someone freely and voluntarily throws Jesus out of their heart…) Well I could speculate on Hell for this is a prelude of it,only it ends when you die,hopefully.I think only those who are wicked dont make it at the end of Rev.:22 you see what he allows and does not allow.I feel he knows us all and knows and searches the heart of all of us,that’s were judgement comes in and only The God head can do that,no one could help Lazures,when he was in the great gulf devide Abraham told him no one could,hear him,so why do you think the people that died before you can hear you? If thier in heaven or even purgatory do you think God would let them be listening to what is happening on the earth? Believe me I died once and was sent back and I was never so sorry in my life,it was peaceful,a feeling that i could never explain i thought of my children for a distant moment but i still did not want to come back,I realy had an experience and I did leave my body through my head and went through a tunnel head first with what looked like water below as i was traveling and the colors were devine,beautiful,when i got out i came out of the water and saw a man in a long white gown on the sand he had a slit in his garment up one leg and i knew i wasn’t afraid and i was not wet either I asked where is everyone! he said look and pointed to the waters and out of it came so many,they had faces but no body’s it was see through yet there was an outline(i can’t explain) but when this man spoke he never moved his mouth and i never moved mine.We could talk,hear,and never move our lips.He was standing near a large white boulder it hid the city that i was not to see for i had to go back,i begged him to stay but he said i was not done with what i had to do on earth yet.I dont know if i have done anything that worhty in my life since,but he would know.What is worhty to him may not be of much worth to us for we did not always see the outcome and he does. Sorry I got off course Love of Christ Nancy

He unlocked the shackles around us, but He will not remove them for us because He created us in His image with free will, and He will never violate our free will. We are always free to choose the world over Him, sad as that may be.

:thumbsup:Show me where there is anything mentioned in the bible of free will to do as we please?When we are Christ’s we are free but if we are in Christ as he is in the Father we do the Fathers will for he came to for fill his Fathers will,and the Father gave the laws from the beginning to follow so we can enter into heaven and thus to live with him forever,and we are therefore free(indeed) Gal:5:1 Lovr of Christ Nancy

 

[DavidCatechumen]

So far this debate has been about “Protestant” positions versus Catholic ones. Time to change the rules.

I will answer both Jerry’s and Nancy’s concerns about salvation by referring them to the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification of the Lutheran World Federation and the Catholic Church.

The justified live by faith that comes from the Word of Christ (Rom 10:17) and is active through love (Gal 5:6), the fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5:22f). But since the justified are assailed from within and without by powers and desires (Rom 8:35-39; Gal 5:16-21) and fall into sin (1 Jn 1:8,10), they must constantly hear God’s promises anew, confess their sins (1 Jn 1:9), participate in Christ’s body and blood, and be exhorted to live righteously in accord with the will of God. That is why the Apostle says to the justified: “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, enabling you both to will and to work for his good pleasure” (Phil 2:12f). But the good news remains: “there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus” (Rom 8:1), and in whom Christ lives (Gal 2:20). Christ’s “act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all” (Rom 5:18).

Read it here. That’s right, Evangelical Lutherans and Catholics agree on all of that. So do all of the other denominations in communion with the ELCA in the US, including the Episcopalians, the Moravian Church in America, the Presbyterian Church (USA), the Reformed Church in America, and the United Church of Christ. The Methodists have also independently adopted it. And they are all Protestants.

If you don’t agree with that document, realize that you are in a minority of Christians in the USA whose governing bodies have not ratified it.

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

Sometimes I wonder if people are really READING posts. It seems like people put words in our mouths. Nancy-when we say we must go through a purgation process to enter Heaven, how does that negate that Jesus died for our sins? This is just an example.

Back to the topic, many years ago, when I was living in Cincinnati, I joined a nondenominational Bible study group for women. I was the only Catholic in the group. When the leader said Catholics changed the Bible by omitting “for the kingdom, the power, and the glory are thine, now and forever.” I spoke up and asked where that was in the Bible because that verse was not in my Revised Standard Version. They couldn’t find it in their Bibles either. Then one of the women said she could never marry anyone who was not a Christian. She went on to say that her husband used to be a Catholic, so of course he needed to be converted. She made him go out onto the balcony and shout, “Jesus is my personal Lord and Savior.” And then renounce the Catholic Church. I was horrified and reported them to the head office. That’s when I found out “nondenominational” meant fundamentalist evangelical. I stayed in the group, because I felt God put me there for a reason. They had many misconceptions about what the CC teaches. I wanted to witness that Catholics really believed in the Bible and in the saving power of Jesus. I was told I was not like most Catholics. They kept interjecting snide little asides about what Catholics believe. After three years, I couldn’t take the put-downs any more. I hope I made a difference. Several of the women privately told me they thought “some Catholics might be in Heaven, and that I was one of them.”

Now, I grew up Catholic, and my dad and his side of the family were Lutheran (MO Synod), and I had never heard any hate of the CC until that Bible study. I never heard any hate from my Catholic school teachers that my dad and nonCatholics would go to Hell. My mother had a great deal of respect for my dad and his faith. My dad had a great love for Jesus and his church. I learned a lot from him.

Josie, Nancy, Jerry, Maranatha, I encourage you to continue participating in these forums. I think you will learn a lot. I learn every day from lurking here. I think a lot of what nonCatholics don’t like is what they THINK Catholic teaching implies. Such as belief in Purgatory somehow denies the saving power of Jesus’ death and resurrection.

God bless, and let’s remember we are all members of the Body of Christ

Where have you been hiding? I know what you mean,I was shocked when i first learned some demeaning things,but then went the course because i was mad at the Catholic church for not allowing me to recieve communion because of divorce.What do you do when you get beat up all the time?I was told to leave this person. Also what do people who have been Catholic all their lives do in their 80’s and to sick to leave each other or to poor to get seperate places,for them to get remarried so they can recieve communion again.It’s a good thing communion dosent get you into heaven there would be alot of people in Hell GOD is to good to do what people do to his Laws and Church,they deny others and God will deny them some day those who are great on earth will be LOW in heaven.What goes around comes around.I dont believe Catholics will go to hell I dont believe Protestents will. I do believe that correction comes at the PULPIT.The Shepards will be judged not so much the Sheep.Jesus said “do what they say but don’t do what they do” Nancy God Bless

 

[Jerry_Marino]

david my friend, you are loved, my man.
working out your salvation doesn’t mean you are working towards salvation, it is like a professional athlete working out to stay in shape so that he can endure the long race ahead of him. salvation is at hand with me that i am sure of not of what i can do but what he has done for me. the second part of the verse in phillipians tells that it is not us who does the work but GOD! through His Spirit that indwells every believer.

Ephesians 5:18

And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit,

and how can we be filled with the Spirit to the fullest?

Read my friend not books of the world but God’s Word.

God bless you.

 

[DavidCatechumen]

Jerry,

As I said, the majority of Christian denominations in the USA (whether Protestant or Catholic) believe that it is necessary for Christians to voluntarily and constantly hear God’s promises anew, confess sins, participate in Christ’s body and blood, and be exhorted to live righteously in accord with the will of God, to avoid falling into sin. God’s grace makes it possible, but submission to the will of the Lord is necessary.

I hope you understand that you are now arguing against not only Catholic teaching, but that of most American Christians of all denominations. I am going to side with the majority of the Christian faithful on the issue of justification, but I do appreciate your concern for me, as always.

God bless you!

 

[qui_est_ce]

Where have you been hiding? I know what you mean,I was shocked when i first learned some demeaning things,but then went the course because i was mad at the Catholic church for not allowing me to recieve communion because of divorce.What do you do when you get beat up all the time?I was told to leave this person. p

Hi Nancy-
You can still receive Communion if you are divorced. I am divorced. Yes, my husband was abusive, so I left him. No problem. I am now free to worship Jesus without exh disallowing it!

Also what do people who have been Catholic all their lives do in their 80’s and to sick to leave each other or to poor to get seperate places,for them to get remarried so they can recieve communion again.It’s a good thing communion dosent get you into heaven there would be alot of people in Hell

• John 6:54 (New International Version)
  54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.*

GOD is to good to do what people do to his Laws and Church,they deny others and God will deny them some day those who are great on earth will be LOW in heaven.What goes around comes around.I dont believe Catholics will go to hell I dont believe Protestents will. I do believe that correction comes at the PULPIT.The Shepards will be judged not so much the Sheep.Jesus said “do what they say but don’t do what they do” Nancy God Bless

I’m not sure what you are saying here about old poor people. I do know that if you receive the body and blood of Christ unworthily, you condemn yourself.
1 Corinthians 11:27-29 (New International Version)

27Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.28A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. 29For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself.
*

 

[qui_est_ce]

working out your salvation doesn’t mean you are working towards salvation, it is like a professional athlete working out to stay in shape so that he can endure the long race ahead of him. salvation is at hand with me that i am sure of not of what i can do but what he has done for me. the second part of the verse in phillipians tells that it is not us who does the work but GOD! through His Spirit that indwells every believer.

Nobody said works save you. CC teaches we are saved by God’s Grace alone. But we must ABIDE in that Grace. We can accept or reject. Where did anyone say that we are saved by our works alone? What happens when the professional athlete stops working out? He loses what he had.

Do you believe in OSAS, Jerry? Do you believe that you can commit murder and still be saved if you don’t repent?

 

[qui_est_ce]

Where did anyone say that we are saved by our works alone?

This is what David wrote:

for it is God who is at work in you, enabling you both to will and to work for his good pleasure" (Phil 2:12f).

 

[Jerry_Marino]

Jerry,

As I said, the majority of Christian denominations in the USA (whether Protestant or Catholic) believe that it is necessary for Christians to voluntarily and constantly hear God’s promises anew, confess sins, participate in Christ’s body and blood, and be exhorted to live righteously in accord with the will of God, to avoid falling into sin. God’s grace makes it possible, but submission to the will of the Lord is necessary.

I hope you understand that you are now arguing against not only Catholic teaching, but that of most American Christians of all denominations. I am going to side with the majority of the Christian faithful on the issue of justification, but I do appreciate your concern for me, as always.

God bless you!

i am not arguing with anyone until now letting you know that i am not arguing

catholics what i gather here depend on the things that they do or not do, they depend on their penance of their sins to be right with God. they depend on purgatory to get them through to heaven as loved ones pray for their souls. and i know where you all get this from maccabees. the work i speak of is not done of me but of God cause before i came to know Christ all of this did not mean a thing but now i live for Him this is not an argument my friend this is my faith on the promises of God not the interpretations of individuals who want to hold others in bondage, a believer is free my friend.

God bless you.

 

[Jerry_Marino]

Nobody said works save you. CC teaches we are saved by God’s Grace alone. But we must ABIDE in that Grace. We can accept or reject. Where did anyone say that we are saved by our works alone? What happens when the professional athlete stops working out? He loses what he had.

Do you believe in OSAS, Jerry? Do you believe that you can commit murder and still be saved if you don’t repent?

yes i do

 

[DavidCatechumen]

Jerry,

catholics what i gather here depend on the things that they do or not do, they depend on their penance of their sins to be right with God. they depend on purgatory to get them through to heaven as loved ones pray for their souls. and i know where you all get this from maccabees.

Nobody ever mentioned Maccabees. We have quoted copiously from Protestant translations of the New Testament. I even explicitly told you I would not use it out of respect for your faith.

James Chapter 2:

You do well if you really fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, ‘You shall love your neighbour as yourself.’ But if you show partiality, you commit sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it. For the one who said, ‘You shall not commit adultery’, also said, ‘You shall not murder.’ Now if you do not commit adultery but if you murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty. For judgement will be without mercy to anyone who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgement.

…

But someone will say, ‘You have faith and I have works.’ Show me your faith without works, and I by my works will show you my faith. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder. Do you want to be shown, you senseless person, that faith without works is barren? Was not our ancestor Abraham justified by works when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was brought to completion by the works. Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, ‘Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness’, and he was called the friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. Likewise, was not Rahab the prostitute also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by another road? For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is also dead.

It is really, REALLY hard to accept that something you have “always known” Scripture to say is, in fact, not scriptural at all. It’s not a fun position to be in. It is the position I found myself in before I decided to become a Catholic.

I will be praying for you as you discern the Catholic Faith in your heart.

 

[grannymh]

click here for further information:

Quote How To

I really appreciate the link. However, for some reason, it won’t display the page.

Do you have the “address” or another way I can get to it?

Thanks so much.

Blessings,

All humanity belongs at the foot of Christ on the cross.

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

Jerry,

As I said, the majority of Christian denominations in the USA (whether Protestant or Catholic) believe that it is necessary for Christians to voluntarily and constantly hear God’s promises anew, confess sins, participate in Christ’s body and blood, and be exhorted to live righteously in accord with the will of God, to avoid falling into sin. God’s grace makes it possible, but submission to the will of the Lord is necessary.

I hope you understand that you are now arguing against not only Catholic teaching, but that of most American Christians of all denominations. I am going to side with the majority of the Christian faithful on the issue of justification, but I do appreciate your concern for me, as always.

God bless you!

Hello David,You are right we should study to show ourselfs approved,we should go to the church of our choice or faith,we should pray and fast,when needed,and recieve the body and blood of Christ,we should avoid anything that will cause us to sin,We can confess our sins to one and other or to the Lord.I think why they do it one and other is your more likely not to want to sin and have to tell someone the terrible thing you might have done,so that’s ok.And I have not seen anyone realy oppose what you say here I think at least most of us should agree,because it is biblical.lol Nancy

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

Hi Nancy-
You can still receive Communion if you are divorced. I am divorced. Yes, my husband was abusive, so I left him. No problem. I am now free to worship Jesus without exh disallowing it!* John 6:54 (New International Version)
54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.*
I’m not sure what you are saying here about old poor people. I do know that if you receive the body and blood of Christ unworthily, you condemn yourself.
1 Corinthians 11:27-29 (New International Version)

27Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.28A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. 29For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself.
*

You know you almost had me convinced until i saw John:6:54 My dad cannot recieve communion after he was a dedicated Catholic all his life and my mother divorced him,he remarried,and cannot recieve unless he seperates from her and get married all over again.That is stupid,and not in the bible it was conveintly made up,to stop divorce proberly.I know alot of Catholics who will not divorce but they live with another or cheat on their wives,That’s been going on for centry’s. I’d never deny anyone to recieve if they were old and sickly and they cannot leave their home because there is no family to help them where they are. God s laws are good but mans laws stink and they will answer to GOD HORAY for that! Nancy

 

[grannymh]

You know you almost had me convinced until i saw John:6:54 My dad cannot recieve communion after he was a dedicated Catholic all his life and my mother divorced him,he remarried,and cannot recieve unless he seperates from her and get married all over again.That is stupid,and not in the bible it was conveintly made up,to stop divorce proberly.I know alot of Catholics who will not divorce but they live with another or cheat on their wives,That’s been going on for centry’s. I’d never deny anyone to recieve if they were old and sickly and they cannot leave their home because there is no family to help them where they are. God s laws are good but mans laws stink and they will answer to GOD HORAY for that! Nancy

Please excuse me – I wrote this before I read your other post about your Dad in his 80’s. See last paragraph. Send me a private message if you have difficult questions. However, I will be out of town until Friday.

Regarding your comment about old people being stuck at home. Catholic Churches have people who will bring Holy Communion to the hospitalized and the home-bound. If you know of anyone who can’t get to church for any reason, call the Parish office and let them know.

In the Catholic Church, a sacramental marriage is for life. Even if there is a legal divorce, the partners cannot commit adultry because the original marriage is sacramentally intact. A second marriage would be considered adultry.

I don’t know if this is possible – but the word “annulment” comes to mind in the case of your Dad. Older people sometimes have two misconceptions. 1. that annulment means that their children are illigetimate. That is not true. and 2. that one cannot receive an annulment when one has been married for years. That is also not true.

In most dioceses, there is usually someone at the main office (chancery) who helps people figure out if they are eligible for an annulment. Your Dad doesn’t have to go see this person. You or a Catholic friend can seek information. Be sure to have with you at least some of the following information: the date of the original marriage, where it took place, who performed the marriage, i.e., priest, minister, judge, etc., the ages of your Dad and Mother when they married, when (if it was at birth or later) they were baptized and where, i.e., in a Catholic ceremony, or in some other religion’s ceremony. You could bring some facts as to why they divorced. However, this may be too painful for you to do which is understandable. You might just mention things in general.

The idea of an annulment is that the original marriage was not a sacramental marriage in the first place. Please remember that it was a legal marriage with all the legal rights, Also, an annulment can be filled by only one of the parties.

My son was seeking an annulment and I was one of the witnesses regarding the state of the marriage. In our diocese, occasionally someone comes to the parish to answer annulment questions. I met with this woman so I could get an idea of what was involved, etc. This worked. My son did receive the annulment.

This is another delicate area that most older people do not consider. And I am not sure I can bring it up politely. My apology. More older couples than we realize are sexually active. If your Dad is not sexually active and is in effect living as brother and sister, there may be a possibility that he could be in good standing with the church. You would need to talk to a priest about this or if this is embarassing, get someone else to do it for you. Your Dad and his wife would still live together. If you run into problems, send me a private message and I will see what can be done.

Blessings,
granny

All human life is worthy of profound respect.