Do Protestants Really Hate Catholicism?

[DavidCatechumen]

Hello it’s the louzy writer again, after reading all that you people put, i was wondering if you go to purgatory to be cleansed then you could not have recieved the Holy Spirit in life because the Holy Spirit wont live where it is not clean and you cannot have both do you see what i am saying?

All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and yet the Holy Spirit is conferred on them. Where in the Bible does it say otherwise?

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and yet the Holy Spirit is conferred on them. Where in the Bible does it say otherwise?

1John:1:9, 1:17 James:5:20 1John:4:10 REV:1:5 Death where is thy sting:Grave where is thy victory? God Bless Nancy

 

[DavidCatechumen]

1John:1:9, 1:17 James:5:20 1John:4:10 REV:1:5 Death where is thy sting:Grave where is thy victory? God Bless Nancy

Protestant Error No. 1: Picking individual verses from the Bible, stripping them of context, and drawing absolute conclusions about them. Read the whole paragraph (1 John 1:5-10):

This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light and in him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him while we are walking in darkness, we lie and do not do what is true; but if we walk in the light as he himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he who is faithful and just will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Everybody sins. This does not drive the Spirit out of them, unless the sin is mortal. This passage is frequently mistranslated to say “the Spirit is not in us,” but that is not correct. If it were so, every sin would be a mortal sin because it would drive the Spirit out of us, and that would contradict 1 John 5.16:

If you see your brother committing what is not a mortal sin, you will ask, and God will give life to such a one—to those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin that is mortal; I do not say that you should pray about that.

You might be surprised to learn that the dogma of mortal/venial sins is Biblical.

 

[tmac1956]

Hello it’s the louzy writer again, after reading all that you people put, i was wondering if you go to purgatory to be cleansed then you could not have recieved the Holy Spirit in life because the Holy Spirit wont live where it is not clean and you cannot have both do you see what i am saying?

Not really. I think the seminal difference here is the man-made position of OSAS to which you hold, versus the ongoing work of salvation position clearly described in scripture. Ref: 1 Cor. 9:27, 10:12; Phil. 2:12-13, 3:11-147; Heb. 3:12-14 just for starters.

If our justification is not ongoing then why bother to go to church, pray, study scripture, evangelize, or perform any of the good works that we are called to perform? After all, did not Christ cleanse us from all unrighteousness in one fell swoop with nothing else to do?

snip…
If Christ cleansed us from all,all,all unrightousness then when we stand before God he will look at us and see his son and we will be able to enter in

Oh really… then why are we to be judged on our works, hmmm? Further, why does Paul tell us to “…work out our salvation in fear and trembling…”? It sounds to me like he wasn’t so sure of his salvation after all.

snip…
But i’m not talking about murder or hanis crimes…

You can’t have it both ways. Either we are saved from, as you said: “…all,all,all unrightousness…” or we are not. If true, then no amount of sin (heinous or otherwise) can remove our salvation, yet you are making exceptions. You are misinterpreting that verse in order to shore up an un-biblical theology.

snip…
let’s face it no one can live without the 10 commandments and no one can live without breaking at least one…

To quote Mr. Regan: “…there you go again.” If we cannot live without the 10 commandments, then OSAS is false. Otherwise, we can live without them, or anything else.

snip…
“For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God If we say we have not sinned then we call Christ a lier and his death would have been in vain.”

First, Christ did not say that – Paul did, and you are attempting to cheery pick that verse as a proof text.
Secondly, you have included your own thoughts in the quotations in an effort to place that in the gospel verse. The bible does not say what you have quoted.

Ref: Romans 3:23-25: “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God.”

Paul is quoting the Old Testament here (Psalm 14: 1-7) and is referring to original sin and not personal sin. Further, those passages make a distinction between “evil doers” and “my people” also called therein, the “company of the righteous”. The context of these verses clearly shows that not all have sinned, but all “evil doers” have sinned. If all had sinned, then there are no righteous, a scenario that would put this scripture in conflict with itself. Clearly, this cannot be and only happens when verses are taken out of context.

snip…
Are you sending God to purgatory? or the Holy Spirit? If we claim God lives in us then why should he go to an unclean place? Please enlighten me Nancy

I don’t respond to non-sequiturs! Refine your point and I’ll take it up.

God Bless.

 

[jlhargus]

Originally Posted by Jerry Marino
catholics what i gather here depend on the things that they do or not do, they depend on their penance of their sins to be right with God. they depend on purgatory to get them through to heaven as loved ones pray for their souls. and i know where you all get this from maccabees.

good that you quoted matthew there my friend, you say that is by God’s grace that one is save, AMEN! and AMEN to freely choosing to follow or not follow. so, then where is the difference between us?

so, if God is the one who does the saving why i ask that the catholic church has the sacraments? seriously, i would like to know to better understand your faith cause i am sitting on the outside looking in.

there are seven:
eucharist
marriage
baptism
reconciliation
confirmation
holy orders
anointing of the sick

please tell me what happens if you fail in any of these sacraments?

JL: Water baptism is a necessity, but not an absolute necessity, without exceptions. Natural birth is a necessity, but not an absolute necessity, without exceptions. In exceptional cases the physician intervenes, birthing by cesarean. The Great Physician, in exceptional cases, can intervene in our spiritual birth. The Holy Spirit can circumcise the heart of one who desires to do the will of God, by baptism of desire or blood. When the lack, of baptism by water, is thru no fault of their own, such as the thief on the cross.
2Cor5:17 Therefore, if ANY ONE is IN CHRIST, he IS A NEW CREATION; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come.

Eph 4:22 PUT OFF THE OLD MAN that belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful lusts, 23 and BE RENEWED in the spirit of your minds, 24 and PUT ON THE NEW MAN, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.
Gal 2:20 I have been CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. Gal 5:24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have CRUCIFIED THE SINFUL NATURE with its passions and desires.
How do we die with Christ? How are we crucified with Christ? How are we united to Christ, BAPTISM.
Rms 6:3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were BAPTIZED INTO HIS DEATH? 4 We were therefore BURIED WITH HIM THROUGH BAPTISM INTO DEATH in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, WE TOO MAY LIVE A NEW LIFE. 5 IF we have been UNITED WITH HIM like this in his death, we will certainly also be UNITED WITH HIM in his resurrection. 6 For we know that OUR OLD SELF WAS CRUCIFIED with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin—
Baptism as a sacrament, which brings about the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Thru the action of the Holy Spirit, baptism truly brings about a real inner change, that is how we die and are united with him, becoming a new creation the old man has passed away. One essential thing lost, thru Adam’s original sin, was the indwelling life of God, grace the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. That life is now restored thru the new Adam, Christ, in baptism. Taking us out of old Adam and bringing us into the new Adam, [Rv 1:5 …Jesus Christ …first born of the dead…loved us WASHED US from our sins in his own blood]
TITUS 3:5 … BY the WASHING of REGENERATION and RENEWING OF the HOLY SPIRIT 6 which HE POURED OUT ON US] 1Cor 12:13 …BY ONE SPIRIT we were ALL BAPTIZED INTO ONE BODY … [Christ has one body and one bride]
Matthew 28:19 Therefore GOgo and MAKE DISCIPLES OF ALL NATIONS, BAPTIZING them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and TEACHING them TO OBEY EVERYTHING I have COMMANDED YOU. And surely I AM WITH YOU ALWAYS, TO THE VERY END of the age.

Sacraments do not limit God, he is free to act and bestow grace however, whenever and to whomever he sees fit, but only to those who thru no fault of there own, do not know his will or who cannot do his will, such as the thief on the cross. Sacraments are God’s normative and intended way. They are God’s gift to his immediate household, to provide for their needs, well-being, growth and security. Just as any good earthly father provides for the well-being of his family. Yet he gives to those outside his immediate household, who are in need.

 

[Boxcar]

In the wilderness, when Jesus was tempted by satan, His answers were “It is Written…” So if He answered questions with Scripture, why isn’t that sufficient for you?

“God breathed” means it comes from God. I did not think that this was questionable. So am I to assume that you think that God, through His Holy Word, doesn’t mean what He says?

You are correct that Scripture is not the only source of truth. One of Scriptures many abilities is to determine truth by comparing a belief to Scripture itself. This is VERY useful in gaining accurate knowledge. However, no additional knowledge is necessary to salvation, ONLY the Scriptures.

Jesus said " I am the way, the TRUTH, and the life, and nobody comes to the Father but by me." Thus the Scripture is not only essential, but exclusive to salvation. (see John 3:3,7,16. etc…)

You are assuming that “useful” is in the context of “sort of…” This is not necessarily true. “Useful” can be applied to essential matters as well.

Hedging? No. I answered you with applicable Scripture. What I will NOT do is be used to set up your next argument. If you have something to say, then say it./QUOTE The negligent sheperd fails to say to the believer,“My Son, come to the service of God, stand fast in fear and in righteousness, and prepare your soul for temptation.”

 

[Ferde_Rombola]

yes i do

"I do"meaning you believe you can commit murder, not repent and still go to heaven. Wow!! You just threw out the Commandment against murder.

I have news for you, Jerry. You are not a Christian.

 

[DavidCatechumen]

"I do"meaning you believe you can commit murder, not repent and still go to heaven. Wow!! You just threw out the Commandment against murder.

I have news for you, Jerry. You are not a Christian.

That’s a bit harsh.

I would just say that Jerry is guilty of Protestant Error No. 1: taking a Bible verse out of context and drawing an absolute conclusion from it in derogation of the rest of Scripture.

John 3:16 does not negate John 14:15. Jesus expects you to keep the Commandments if you love Him. Otherwise, you don’t really believe in Him, therefore you will not be saved. We, as Catholics, understand this as mortal sin (and Protestants should too, see 1 John 5.16).

Does that help?

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

Not really. I think the seminal difference here is the man-made position of OSAS to which you hold, versus the ongoing work of salvation position clearly described in scripture. Ref: 1 Cor. 9:27, 10:12; Phil. 2:12-13, 3:11-147; Heb. 3:12-14 just for starters.

If our justification is not ongoing then why bother to go to church, pray, study scripture, evangelize, or perform any of the good works that we are called to perform? After all, did not Christ cleanse us from all unrighteousness in one fell swoop with nothing else to do?

Oh really… then why are we to be judged on our works, hmmm? Further, why does Paul tell us to “…work out our salvation in fear and trembling…”? It sounds to me like he wasn’t so sure of his salvation after all. CHERRY PICk ISN’T THAT WHAT YOUR LEADERS DO AND THEN CHANGE THE SCRIPTURES TO FIT WHEN THEY WANT? PICK AND CHOOSE PICK AND CHOOSE,MAKE UP LAWS CANNONS DECREES COVENANTS. I’m not saying we are not sinners i’m saying when God looks at us he sees his son and knows he died and not in vain i’m sorry but there justm is not a purgatory,it is not valid and Jesus did not mention it.The Mormons have the same problem they believe in only what the seer say’s.and they dont even know him.I’m not against you people but that is why i left the Catholic church,i was always spooked always afraid,scared of ghosts,evil spirits,i watched my mom with the garlic,mustard seeds,frankinsesce and myrth,salt holy water,rosery beads,statues all over the house,pray to Mother Cabrine,St treasa,St Joseph,pray to the Blessed Virgin (which i do believe she was always a virgin) and then do a Novena for me My God I was up every night of the week praying no wonder i can’t spell good.I usto wake up in the middle of the night with beads in hand and start all over again,and fall asleep praying.Then there was the house blessings and the scaptulars we wore to keep us safe.I’m not scared anymore and i can walk into any church that is not Catholic and recieve the body and blood of Christ . And another thing,Why does the priest at communion hold up the Holy Eucharist and say"Father if it be any way possible except this sacrifice unto thee? I always wondered about that. Can you enlighten me Please? Nancy

You can’t have it both ways. Either we are saved from, as you said: “…all,all,all unrightousness…” or we are not. If true, then no amount of sin (heinous or otherwise) can remove our salvation, yet you are making exceptions. You are misinterpreting that verse in order to shore up an un-biblical theology.

To quote Mr. Regan: “…there you go again.” If we cannot live without the 10 commandments, then OSAS is false. Otherwise, we can live without them, or anything else.

First, Christ did not say that – Paul did, and you are attempting to cheery pick that verse as a proof text.
Secondly, you have included your own thoughts in the quotations in an effort to place that in the gospel verse. The bible does not say what you have quoted.

Ref: Romans 3:23-25: “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God.”

Paul is quoting the Old Testament here (Psalm 14: 1-7) and is referring to original sin and not personal sin. Further, those passages make a distinction between “evil doers” and “my people” also called therein, the “company of the righteous”. The context of these verses clearly shows that not all have sinned, but all “evil doers” have sinned. If all had sinned, then there are no righteous, a scenario that would put this scripture in conflict with itself. Clearly, this cannot be and only happens when verses are taken out of context.

I don’t respond to non-sequiturs! Refine your point and I’ll take it up.

God Bless.

 

[Ferde_Rombola]

That’s a bit harsh.

I would just say that Jerry is guilty of Protestant Error No. 1: taking a Bible verse out of context and drawing an absolute conclusion from it in derogation of the rest of Scripture.

John 3:16 does not negate John 14:15. Jesus expects you to keep the Commandments if you love Him. Otherwise, you don’t really believe in Him, therefore you will not be saved. We, as Catholics, understand this as mortal sin (and Protestants should too, see 1 John 5.16).

Does that help?

Hi, David. Does ‘harsh’ mean not true? Jerry said he believes he can commit murder and go to heaven without repenting of his sin. Is it possible for anyone to hold such a belief and be a Christian?

“Otherwise you don’t really believe in Him” means you’re not a Christian. Unless I’ve lost my marbles.

That said, you’re the most knowledgeable not-yet-Catholic person I’ve encountered. You are ready for the Vigil!! I will pray for you.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I have news for you, Jerry. You are not a Christian.
DavidCatechumen;4963090:

That’s a bit harsh.

I agree. Jerry believes in Christ and the forgiveness of sin through the Cross and Resurrection. He does believe in repentence. I’d be carful about slinging attacks like that.

I would just say that Jerry is guilty of Protestant Error No. 1: taking a Bible verse out of context and drawing an absolute conclusion from it in derogation of the rest of Scripture.

John 3:16 does not negate John 14:15. Jesus expects you to keep the Commandments if you love Him. Otherwise, you don’t really believe in Him, therefore you will not be saved. We, as Catholics, understand this as mortal sin (and Protestants should too, see 1 John 5.16).

Does that help?

Yes

 

[DavidCatechumen]

Jerry said he believes he can commit murder and go to heaven without repenting of his sin. Is it possible for anyone to hold such a belief and be a Christian?

For that we would have to ask God, since He alone is the Just Judge. Jerry is at least TRYING to be a Christian–he is here, seeking the Lord. I just don’t want him to be intimidated and to give up.

That said, you’re the most knowledgeable not-yet-Catholic person I’ve encountered. You are ready for the Vigil!! I will pray for you.

Thank you so much! I appreciate your recommendation and prayers to the Lord.

 

[jlhargus]

Hello, after reading all that you people put, i was wondering if you go to purgatory to be cleansed then you could not have recieved the Holy Spirit in life because the Holy Spirit wont live where it is not clean and you cannot have both do you see what i am saying?

JL: Hello Nancy good to see you again. [1Jn1:18 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.] If you are correct then John himself would not have the Holy Spirit. [1Jn5:17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.]

If Christ cleansed us from all,all,all unrightousness then when we stand before God he will look at us and see his son and we will be able to enter in.

JL: Yes Christ does cleans us of all, all, all unrighteousness. This is done in baptism when we are cleansed of our sins by washing in his blood, as Peter tells us, 1Peter3:21, baptism now saves. We are made righteous by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. We are at that time fit to go into heaven, unfortunately most of us stain our garment after baptism by faults or venially sins, sometimes by deadly or mortal sins, 1Jn5:17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death. The Holy Spirit cannot remain, indwelling, when a deadly sins is committed. The Holy Spirit departs and the soul dies leaving the flesh in control. Venial sins do not cause the lose of the indwelling Holy Spirit, but they do weaken us. We do not need to go to confession for venial sins, although it is good to do so, so as to work on overcoming faults.

Mortal sins require confession, to restore the life of the soul. Our Lord in Jn20:22, breathed on the apostles and said, who’s sins you forgive they are forgiven, who’s sins you retain they are retained. It is that breath that restores spiritual life again to a dead soul, cleansing once again by Christ’s blood. Enabling the Holy Spirit to indwell the soul once again. Remember God’s breath gave life to Adam’s body natural life, that same breath goes out from the priest to restore spiritual life to the dead soul, in confession, God’s breath gives life.

But i’m not talking about murder or hanis crimes,let’s face it no one can live without the 10commandments and no one can live without breaking at least one.For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God If we say we have not sinned then we call Christ a lier and his death would have been in vain.Are you sending God to purgatory? or the Holy Spirit? If we claim God lives in us then why should he go to an unclean place? Please enlighten me Nancy

JL: Purgatory saves no one, those in purgatory are saved already by the blood of Christ, else they would not be in purgatory. Purgatory is not a second chance. Purgatory purges the soul of its inclination to dead works, which spring from the heart and renders it impure. Good works, gold, are those done for love of God, bad works, straw, are done for love of self, such as helping someone, just to be seen, and not forgiving from the heart,

[Heb 12:29 For our GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE. HB 12:22 …ye are come…to the city of the living God the heavenly Jerusalem…23 To the general assembly…to God the Judge of all and TO THE SPIRITS OF JUST MEN MADE PERFECT] Spirits=no body, of just men=saved=died in a state of grace, made perfect They are justified=saved, but yet made perfect, Why? because one must be perfect to enter heaven

[Mt 28: 32 Then his lord … said… I FORGAVE THEE …33… SHOULDN’T YOU…34 his lord delivered him to the tormentors till he should pay all due him 35 …LIKEWISE … MY HEAVENLY FATHER WILL DO TO YOU IF ye FROM YOUR HEARTS FORGIVE NOT every one his brother their trespasses 1 COR 3:13 … FIRE SHALL TRY EVERY MAN’S WORK of what sort it is…if it abide he shall receive a reward…15 IF …BURNED HE SHALL SUFFER LOSS … HE himself SHALL BE SAVED yet so AS BY FIRE.] So if we decrease and let Christ increase within we can purge faults here on earth and have no need to go through purgatory. Unfortunately most people die with dead works. To enter heaven one must be clean and so one passes through purgatory to be purified, made perfectly clean. Everyone does not go to purgatory only those who are not yet MADE PERFECT.

Mt 12:32 And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven EITHER IN THIS AGE OR IN THE AGE TO COME Mt12:36 I tell you on the day of judgment men will RENDER ACCOUNT FOR EVERY CARLESS WORD they utter. Hb12:14 14 Strive for peace with all men and for the HOLINESS WITHOUT WHICH no one will SEE THE LORD. We need to be perfectly purified, TO SEE THE FACE OF THE LORD, and love is what makes one perfect, love your neighbor as yourself totally without reserve, most of us fail in this to some degree. When we were baptized God’s grace regenerated us and made us holy, the slate is wiped clean for the holiness to see the Lord, most do not maintain that purity throughout life. Even in this life the Lord chastises, Hb12:6-13, to correct faults and sins after baptism in his people. His children are in a state of grace and therefore holy, but not holy as he is holy. If we learn and grow from these chastisements we can grow in love and purify our soul, with his help and grace to overcome our faults. We can be perfected on earth with God’s help by taking up our cross daily and dying to self, or in purgatory it is up to us, both are God’s gift of grace and mercy, which flows from the once for all sacrifice of the cross. As Mk7:18-20 tells us, what comes out of a man defiles him, as it comes from the heart.

 

[DavidCatechumen]

CHERRY PICk ISN’T THAT WHAT YOUR LEADERS DO AND THEN CHANGE THE SCRIPTURES TO FIT WHEN THEY WANT? PICK AND CHOOSE PICK AND CHOOSE,MAKE UP LAWS CANNONS DECREES COVENANTS

The Catholic Church does not change Scripture, nor does she teach anything that is against Scripture.

If you can find something that the Church actually teaches that is not scriptural, feel free to tell us and we will pass it on to the Pope.

 

[DavidCatechumen]

CHERRY PICk ISN’T THAT WHAT YOUR LEADERS DO AND THEN CHANGE THE SCRIPTURES TO FIT WHEN THEY WANT? PICK AND CHOOSE PICK AND CHOOSE,MAKE UP LAWS CANNONS DECREES COVENANTS

Matthew 16:19, “And I will give unto thee [the Apostles] the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

When Jesus said this, he knew that the Apostles would not live forever (he is God, you know?) So He obviously intended for this ministry of “the keys” to continue. You can see it continue in the Bible, in Acts 1:18-26, where the eleven remaining Apostles elect Matthias to succeed Judas.

This process has continued down the ages. The Apostles chose Matthias as a bishop to succeed them. The bishops chose other bishops chose other bishops… (skip ahead 1,800 or so years) who elected this guy to lead the Church in the place of Peter. That’s why he’s not just a guy… he is the Vicar of Christ. The Apostles themselves have Catholic Bishops as their successors. (The Orthodox Bishops are also successors of the Apostles, but they are sadly separated.)

Besides binding and loosing (pretty powerful stuff), the Apostles also have authority to make oral Apostolic Tradition–interpretations of the Bible, much as the U.S. Supreme Court interprets the Constitution. (Except the Apostles are backed by the Holy Spirit, so they don’t mess up the way that the Supreme Court does). This authority is Biblical and these decisions cannot contradict the Bible. 2 Thess. 2:15. Hence, everything the Church does and teaches is also Biblical.

No one seriously challenges the apostolic origins of the Catholic Church.

People are just afraid of her. Maybe it’s the confessional, maybe it’s the mistruths that people spread about worshipping saints, maybe it’s the last vestiges of the decrees of anti-Catholic tyrants Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot, and maybe it is the continuing influence of Islam and Gnosticism (which were responsible for introducing heresies like memorialism and iconoclasm).

There is no need to be afraid.

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

Well David you wont have to go far because in the Vatican the Pope has Paper work that say’s He is God On earth,Not that he represents God but that he is God on earth and he stopped wearing the hat in Lattin that had the numbers 666 on it.That was found out about in the 80’s There was a church that went in and took pictures but now everything is differnt. That’s what I know I did have a copy of that when i did a Daniel and Rev.Seminar. You asked I tell you this with love of Christ because he would tell you the same. Nancy

 

[DavidCatechumen]

Well David you wont have to go far because in the Vatican the Pope has Paper work that say’s He is God On earth,Not that he represents God but that he is God on earth and he stopped wearing the hat in Lattin that had the numbers 666 on it.That was found out about in the 80’s There was a church that went in and took pictures but now everything is differnt. That’s what I know I did have a copy of that when i did a Daniel and Rev.Seminar. You asked I tell you this with love of Christ because he would tell you the same. Nancy

Kyrie, eleison. Christe, eleison. Kyrie, eleison.

The Pope is not God on earth. Otherwise, wouldn’t we have the Pope on our crucifixes instead of the Lord Jesus? And the Papal Tiara does not say “Vicarius Fillii Dei” or “666.” It never has. The only people who believe these claims are cults that are far outside the mainstream of Christianity.

Would you believe those ridiculous claims against 2,000 years of history?

The Catholic Church built Western civilization. If not for the Church, we would not be here.

The Catholic Church prevented Europe from being overrun by the Muslim Turks. If not for the Church, you would be a Muslim, like it or not. (If you ARE a Muslim by your own will, that’s fine, but you could have told us straight away so as not to offend you).

The Catholic Church ended the Cold War. If not for the Church, you might have been Comrade Nancy. Or we might even be dust after a nuclear holocaust.

I could go on and on. And oh, by the way, the Orthodox Church believes the same things the Catholic Church does, but you ignore them. Are you going to call the Ecumenical Patriarch the antichrist too?

If you honestly believe that the Church is the Antichrist, then all I can do is pray for you.

 

[tmac1956]

. CHERRY PICk ISN’T THAT WHAT YOUR LEADERS DO AND THEN CHANGE THE SCRIPTURES TO FIT WHEN THEY WANT? PICK AND CHOOSE PICK AND CHOOSE,MAKE UP LAWS CANNONS DECREES COVENANTS. I’m not saying we are not sinners i’m saying when God looks at us he sees his son and knows he died and not in vain i’m sorry but there justm is not a purgatory,it is not valid and Jesus did not mention it.The Mormons have the same problem they believe in only what the seer say’s.and they dont even know him.I’m not against you people but that is why i left the Catholic church,i was always spooked always afraid,scared of ghosts,evil spirits,i watched my mom with the garlic,mustard seeds,frankinsesce and myrth,salt holy water,rosery beads,statues all over the house,pray to Mother Cabrine,St treasa,St Joseph,pray to the Blessed Virgin (which i do believe she was always a virgin) and then do a Novena for me My God I was up every night of the week praying no wonder i can’t spell good.I usto wake up in the middle of the night with beads in hand and start all over again,and fall asleep praying.Then there was the house blessings and the scaptulars we wore to keep us safe.
snip…

Ladies and gentleman – what we have here is a perfect example of the doctrinal dance. Nancy never even attempted to refute my arguments from scripture – she simply changed the topic; a typical protestant tactic when backed into a corner.

I’m not scared anymore and i can walk into any church that is not Catholic and recieve the body and blood of Christ. snip…

Hang on a minute here… The only Church that I know of that believes in the real presence is the Catholic Church. Please tell me what protestant church you attend that holds to and has the ordinations for that. Even Lutherans hold to consubstantiation and NOT transubstantiation.

And another thing,Why does the priest at communion hold up the Holy Eucharist and say"Father if it be any way possible except this sacrifice unto thee? I always wondered about that. Can you enlighten me Please? Nancy

I don’t know what you are talking about with that. Below is what is spoken at our parish:
“May the Lord accept this sacrifice at your hands;
for the praise and glory of His name;
for our good and for the good of all his Church.”

I hope this helps.

 

[DavidCatechumen]

Ladies and gentleman – what we have here is a perfect example of the doctrinal dance. Nancy never even attempted to refute my arguments from scripture – she simply changed the topic; a typical protestant tactic when backed into a corner.

I am beginning to have my doubts as to Nancy’s sincerity due to her use of the appeal to fear, but please be careful about framing this discussion in confrontational terms.

 

[tmac1956]

I am beginning to have my doubts as to Nancy’s sincerity due to her use of the appeal to fear, but please be careful about framing this discussion in confrontational terms.

David:
Point taken. However, I am only attempting to discuss theology here. Since most Protestants hold to Sola Scriptura (SS), they should honestly be able to defend their position from that ground. While discussing her statements, I was simply giving her the benefit of using scripture alone when addressing her points. One can only expect a rational response from her based on SS. By using her “yardstick” as the primary vehicle for discussion, I believe that I am giving her a charitable advantage. What say you?
Thanks.