C
cazayoux
Guest
Those Jews were given the chance.
Paul went to the temples first in every town he visited, then to the gentiles.
Those Jews chose not to believe and separated themselves.
michel
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Paul went to the temples first in every town he visited, then to the gentiles.
Those Jews chose not to believe and separated themselves.
michel
A
AgnosTheist
Guest
Those arent the words of Jesus. Show me something wherein Jesus told his audience. “I AM GOD!”.
The context implies ‘one in purpose’, NOT ‘one and the same’.
those are just your interpretations. anyway even the apostles did not start calling him ‘god’ until after they saw him survive the crucifixion.
C
cazayoux
Guest
The reference used to know of a man named Jesus is the same reference that discusses the miracles.
Why only believe a part of that reference?
If you do not believe the reference is correct about one thing, why trust it for another?
any chance you could read the scriptures and be inspired by them to follow Jesus’ teaching?
michel
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AgnosTheist
Guest
And Jesus had his chance. But as point#4 goes, Jesus failed to restore the 12 tribes of Israel.
C
cazayoux
Guest
Why is your interpretation more correct than mine?
God refers to himself in the old testament as “I AM” just as you point out above.
Jesus also calls himself this.
michel
C
cazayoux
Guest
What is your litmus test to say he failed?
Is it because all Jews are not Christians right now?
Those individuals that exercised their God-given free will to ignore or reject Jesus is by no means a failure to be laid on Jesus head.
michel
A
allischalmers
Guest
Do Baptist understand why Jesus had to come? Of course we do
John 3: 16 For God so loved the world, etc.
John 3: 16 For God so loved the world, etc.
A
AgnosTheist
Guest
its not uncommon to find myths intermixed with historical accounts. In reality there is no objective evidence of the supernatural. So i shave off that miracle part as myth and the rest as historical. Nothing is further from the truth.
A
AgnosTheist
Guest
yes thats it.
Then how can anyone say that jesus succeeded in restoring the 12 tribes of Israel when much of Israel’s 3 tribes dont even recognize him?
C
cazayoux
Guest
Yes, they doubted.
In fact, we see over and over again that the apostled didn’t get something that Jesus said.
(even after his resurrection)
Matthew 28:
10 When they saw him, they worshiped, but they doubted.
11 Then Jesus approached and said to them, "All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
(some that weren’t even disciples knew that this man was more than just a man)
Matthew 27:54
The centurion and the men with him who were keeping watch over Jesus feared greatly when they saw the earthquake and all that was happening, and they said, “Truly, this was the Son of God!”
C
cazayoux
Guest
But many did and became Christians … as well as many from all of the gentile nations that had remants of the lost tribes within them.
All people are given the chance to decide to follow the Christ.
It is not Jesus’ fault that not all chose to come to the feast.
The feast will happen, and I believe it will include people from every tribe, even some from the ‘lost’ tribes.
I think we may just have a different idea of that restoration.
Your idea that requires 100% inclusion denies free will.
In my thinking, the restoration will include people from every tribe, but I do not expect that all that hear Jesus will choose to follow Him.
(by the way … this has been a really good exchange … thank you for being kind to me … it’s been a while since i posted anything at all)
michel
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cazayoux
Guest
but the guys that wrote this are the ones that ‘claimed’ the miracles happened.
really … aside from the bible itself, other documents from that time (and since) should be reviewed.
Help me with the meaning of AgnosTheist.
I’m terrible at languages so I can’t tell if this means atheist or Agnostic.
Thanks.
I’m curious now to know if you believe that God doesn’t exist … or … that he might, but if so he definitely didn’t prove it with miracles through the man Jesus.
michel
C
cazayoux
Guest
et cetera, et cetera, et cetera …
There’s quite a bit to that ‘et cetera’.
“You yada’d through some of the best parts.”
(sorry Seinfeld)
hahaha
Z
zerocrossing
Guest
Actually, Benjamin was part of the Southern Kingdom. It’s not one of the lost tribes. The Southern Kingdom was comprised of Judah, Benjamin and those Levites who were in Judah and Benjamin. Descendents of the Southern Kingdom are the modern day Jews.
St. Paul, incidentally, was of the tribe of Benjamin.
A
AgnosTheist
Guest
if only it was that simple. tbut the authorship was vague, it was written down many decades after the alleged event, there was no original document, there was a long chain of transmission, and there are inconsistencies. by those i dont think its worth gambling your life over.
Its short for Agnostic Theist. It means that I believe in God even though there is no verifiable knowledge of him.
even though i strongly believe that all religions are man made, i still chose to believe in the Divine for 2 reasons:
- The complexities & mysteries of life.
- The hope that there is more meaning to how i lived long after I’m dead.
Z
zerocrossing
Guest
John 8:58: “Before Abraham was, I AM.”
I AM is the name by which God revealed Himself to Moses.
In the Gospel narrative, Jesus’ listeners CLEARLY understood that He was referring to Himself as God. In the very next verse, they pick up rocks in order to stone Him to death for blasphemy. And He made no claim that they misunderstood Him.
There’s no question that Jesus called Himself God in the Gospel narrative. You do have the option, of course, of arguing with the validity of the text. But the text itself is not ambiguous on this point.
I
inJESUS
Guest
A
AgnosTheist
Guest
thats not even in the gospels. we are talking pre-crucifixion here.
show me those verses. the rest of what you said are just personal interpretations. like hey, any human life is more important than the temple too!
I
inJESUS
Guest
A
AgnosTheist
Guest
a matter of opinion.
in the verse 54 he referred to God as a separate entity. In the larger context, the jews got a low opinion of jesus when it appeared to them that he was making himself equal to God. ‘equal to god’ is not ‘god himself’.
the bottom point, he got crucified, not for claiming to be god himself, but for competing with the god of the jews.
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