Do Protestants Understand Why Jesus Had To Come?

[inJESUS]

My **sincere **apologies for the OP for going off-track can the mods move the irrelevant posts to another thread? sorry again

 

[AgnosTheist]

nop he did not. He wrote:

he was not talking about Jews who killed Jesus.He was not saying Jews knew He is God. He was stressing humanities’ sinfulness, that it was our sinfulness that killed Jesus.

i was reading between the lines. I know he was referring to human nature. But obviously he got that idea from the crucifixion. Either way what he said was an insult to human intellect. We cant be that stupid.

of course not but that was not Manualman’s message

what do you think his message was?

your thought, not the gospels’ authors’, neither the Jewish characters they mention. Yet this proves one thing if it’s correct, that Jesus said He is God.

the stories doesnt really clarify how the jews exactly saw his message. but if anything, his crucifixion prosecutors never argued that he claimed to be God.

yes and what does this have to do with Him saying He is God? your argument about parables gives the impression that Jesus was misunderstood to be saying He is God because of His “difficult” lessons in the parables.

I’m just saying that one of his difficult messages gave jews the impression that he was another God. Thats true to this very day. Jews still interpret “Son of God” as “God junior”, or “God #2”.

 

[manualman]

i was criticizing this point:

its pre-crucifixion. jesus never presented himself as the one god himself. jews never held the idea that they were murdering the god of abraham.

Look closer at my post. It doesn’t MATTER whether Jesus clearly enough delineated who he was to the people. What matters is that He IS God incarnate, lived on earth in perfect love, humility and generosity and we responded by killing him for it. THAT is the point. We have rotted on the inside. While we were created good and retain much of that, we are fatally fallen because of our sinfulness. All of us. (Not just a few Jews or Romans) The GOOD NEWS is that in Jesus, God demonstrated his sustained love for us in SPITE of what we have become and offers us a path to redemption. Christians call that Grace.

 

[blacktiger057]

Having also lived amongst evangelical protestants I think there is also a certain gross oversimplification going on in their teaching. In college with the ‘Navigators’ I was taught that Jesus had to come and die on the cross in order to pay the price for our sins. They expound on that by illustrating that God’s justice was so perfect that He couldn’t just let sinners off. A wrong was done, so SOMEBODY had to be punished. In their teaching, it was God’s creative plan that he would punish himself to satisfy his perfect justice. Thus, we can enter heaven justified.

This always puzzled me. It implies God is less merciful than mere humans can be. I have kids now and I certainly don’t have to punish myself in order to forgive my kids! IMO, this warped description does christianity great harm by making God seem mentally ill! Reading scripture SEEMS to support it until you step back and realize that God works on a scale that boggles human imagination. By coming into this world as a humble carpenter’s son and merely being who He is, he became the object and victim of our collective sinfulness. We learn at the passion that we humans, as we are, are so fallen that will will murder God Himself if He places Himself at our mercy. THAT is what breaks us. That is what makes us realize our need for forgiveness. It wasn’t GOD’S character that required Jesus to die on a cross. It was OURS.

Whoah…Oh my God!!!

I finally get it now…I never had understood why Jesus really died, but thanks to you, I do now!

Thank you sooooooooooooo much! I finally get it now.

God Bless You!!!

Scott

 

[inJESUS]

the stories doesnt really clarify how the jews exactly saw his message. but if anything, his crucifixion prosecutors never argued that he claimed to be God.

 

[manualman]

And please refrain from slandering me with false accusations of antisemitism. I don’t accuse the Jews of killing Jesus. I accuse all of humanity of it.

 

[inJESUS]

And please refrain from slandering me with false accusations of antisemitism. I don’t accuse the Jews of killing Jesus. I accuse all of humanity of it.

actually he misunderstood all your post and was replying accordingly. Others understood it correctly, like me, and agreed with you. But i didn’t know it was a Protestant interpretation.

 

[distracted]

realize that God works on a scale that boggles human imagination. By coming into this world as a humble carpenter’s son and merely being who He is, he became the object and victim of our collective sinfulness. We learn at the passion that we humans, as we are, are so fallen that will will murder God Himself if He places Himself at our mercy. THAT is what breaks us. That is what makes us realize our need for forgiveness. It wasn’t GOD’S character that required Jesus to die on a cross. It was OURS.

Very well said - and necessary…

Also, It explains something that’s being discussed in Spirituality forum, that very few people make it to Heaven… Most people “murder God” all over agian through their sins and unrepentance… and not wanting to let our Holy Savior purify them of the stain left by those sins…

 

[AgnosTheist]

Look closer at my post. It doesn’t MATTER whether Jesus clearly enough delineated who he was to the people. What matters is that He IS God incarnate, lived on earth in perfect love, humility and generosity and we responded by killing him for it. THAT is the point. We have rotted on the inside. While we were created good and retain much of that, we are fatally fallen because of our sinfulness. All of us. (Not just a few Jews or Romans) The GOOD NEWS is that in Jesus, God demonstrated his sustained love for us in SPITE of what we have become and offers us a path to redemption. Christians call that Grace.

of course. that is always the christian point. but by making your point you have insulted the human intellect. no person in his right mind would try to harm god. being human is also being about compassion. in fact we could show compassion to god even though god failed to show compassion to the poor Amalekites.

And please refrain from slandering me with false accusations of antisemitism. I don’t accuse the Jews of killing Jesus. I accuse all of humanity of it.

antisemitism??? oh boy, you are being too paranoid dude.

accused all of humanity, LOL! too paranoid indeed.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Most people “murder God” all over agian through their sins and unrepentance… and not wanting to let our Holy Savior purify them of the stain left by those sins…

Your logic is just sick. We are the way we are, and when we succomb to our NATURAL flaws and give in to sin, we get the blame and not God? Sick. Me, I dont blame anyone for being human.

 

[manualman]

of course. that is always the christian point. but by making your point you have insulted the human intellect. no person in his right mind would try to harm god. being human is also being about compassion. in fact we could show compassion to god even though god failed to show compassion to the poor Amalekites.

antisemitism??? oh boy, you are being too paranoid dude.

accused all of humanity, LOL! too paranoid indeed.

I direct your attention to your own post #52, where you falsely insist that I accused the JEWS of killing Jesus. That’s not paranoia, it is called reading.

And you might consider the possibility that God might have some insights that you lack. The reason we show compassion on our fellow man is because they remain created in the image and likeness of God and have the potential for redemption, regardless of how corrupt they seem. Having the advantage of omniscience, God knows the future. If the future holds no redemption, than it is not a lack of compassion for God to end their lives when He chooses. I’m fairly sure you haven’t met any Amalekites, so you really have no idea of the level of their depravity, do you?

It is not the human intellect that tries to kill God. It is the human will. (and it deserves the insult, because it is true) Perhaps a little reading of history will demonstrate for you the lows to which humanity can sink. Only the christian explanation fits history. Those that insist that men are purely evil cannot explain the many instances of human virtue in history. Those that insist on the innate goodness of humanity cannot explain the myriad of atrocities in our past and present. Only the explanation that we are created good, but have fallen through sin explains our complex behavior.

 

[inJESUS]

of course. that is always the christian point. but by making your point you have insulted the human intellect. no person in his right mind would try to harm god. .

why is it that you are the only one who does not understand what Manualman is talking about?

 

[inJESUS]

Your logic is just sick. Sick. Me, I dont blame anyone for being human.

who is Distracted blaming, in your opinion?

 

[AgnosTheist]

I direct your attention to your own post #52, where you falsely insist that I accused the JEWS of killing Jesus.

How was that ‘anti-semitism’? Even I recognize the fact that in the bible it was the jews who had Jesus killed. Now am i accusing myself of anti-semitism? Dude, you are too paranoid. Why, whatever gave you the idea that Jesus got killed?

And you might consider the possibility that God might have some insights that you lack.

I believe in the Divine so of course I believe that. I just dont think that Jesus was the Divine.

I’m fairly sure you haven’t met any Amalekites, so you really have no idea of the level of their depravity, do you?

I am absolutely certain that infants have ZERO level of depravity.

Perhaps a little reading of history will demonstrate for you the lows to which humanity can sink.

The lowest of what humanity can sink into was as low as the Israelites slaughtering innocent infants. Thank God? For me that is the strongest evidence that the bible God is merely a reflection of human nature. Man invented the bible God, not the other way around.

 

[AgnosTheist]

why is it that you are the only one who does not understand what Manualman is talking about?

really? was it misunderstanding that I gave credit to the biblical crucifixion account for manualman’s comment that we are “so fallen that will will murder God Himself if He places Himself at our mercy”. Perhaps what you mean is that why am I the only one that gives a damn about this? Maybe because the rest of the few infidels here did not find it worthwhile to respond to. Or perhaps they think I got it covered.

who is Distracted blaming, in your opinion?

everyone who sins and are unrepentant.

 

[inJESUS]

really? was it misunderstanding that I gave credit to the biblical crucifixion account for manualman’s comment that we are “so fallen that will will murder God Himself if He places Himself at our mercy”.

He is emphasizing how sinful we are. I still fail to see where is your problem with this.

Perhaps what you mean is that why am I the only one that gives a damn about this? Maybe because the rest of the few infidels here did not find it worthwhile to respond to. Or perhaps they think I got it covered.

 

[inJESUS]

I am absolutely certain that infants have ZERO level of depravity.
.

why do infants die in volcanoes and earthquakes? you believe in the Divine so where is His mercy here?

 

[whatistruth]

Most of you have completely veered away from the original thread. Please get back on and stick to the original statement! we are suppose to be talking about why Jesus had to come and restore the Davidic Kingdom!

Ego te Amo to all!

 

[inJESUS]

so easy to get distracted

 

[zerocrossing]

believe it or not I’m being as honest as I could. I have nothing to lose by agreeing or disagreeing with you. I have no agenda. All that really matters for me here is whether or not the Jews saw jesus as claiming to be the God of their forefathers. If anything the only evidence I see is that Jews are seeing jesus as a demigod (being the son of god).

I didn’t think you were being serious until I saw in another thread that you are planning to attend adoration. May God bless your time with Him.