Do some Catholics take it too far?

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I’m a Catholic but yes, I’ve seen a site called the “Fatima movement” which says that God the father is just “Jewish/Masonic lie” and that Mary, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost is the real trinity. They are break-aways from the second Vatican council.

I love Mary, but I don’t worship her.
 
Sandalwood said:
Regarding the first post in this thread. I asked my Priest this very question during RCIA and he said “YES” with a resounding voice. He said he and fellow Priests discuss this very issue.
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Same here. The priest I went to for my first confession told me he has had to pull some of his parishioners aside from time to time because of it.
 
ESMDHokie77 said:
Well, I would say that the vulgar words that we get from translating from latin, have changed their meaning, but not the latin.

Too much of anything… is possible, but every group has people guilty of this.
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Agreed, on both accounts. On your first point, I would say that perhaps more care should be taken when translating the Latin for the catechism and that words that more accurately reflect what the word used to mean, rather than what it has become, be used.

On another note, I would really like to see the church come out with clearer guidance on the idea of mediatrix and co-redemptrix as it relates to Marian dogma. When I hear those two words used, I get very uncomfortable for some reason.

Personally, I think it is a bad idea for the church to allow those words to be used when describing Mary. Even should the magesterium come out and define them very narrowly, it still opens up Catholics for easy, easy criticism in terms of accusations of Marian worship. Plus, in my view, it would only exasperate issues such as we are discussing in this thread with Catholics who actually do cross that line…
 
zach_dunn said:
This idea that some go too far is a sort of “stumbling block” for them. What would you guys suggest I say to them?
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That you or they do not need to be people who take it too far. As the apostle Paul said, do all things in moderation.
 
zach_dunn said:
Hello all, I’m assuming most Catholics will say no, and that most Protestants will say yes, but I’ll ask anyway. I was talking to my girlfriend and her mother a while ago (both Protestant), and we were talking about praying to and veneration of Mary and the saints. After talking with my girlfriend about the matter, she now understands the idea and thinks that it is tenable and has actually come to believe some things about Mary such as her perpetual virginity. Even so, both her and her mother believe that there are some Catholics who simply take it too far and deify Mary and/or the saints. Any takes on this? What should I say?

Thanks to all of you!
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Some Catholic individuals take it too far.

I’ve never known a Catholic to deify Mary though.
That notion may well be a case of taking the criticism too far.🙂
 
I like this statement from Pope Benedict’s book on Mary:
Mary’s main role is to lead us to union with Jesus, to help us know and love Him much better and to be his true followers
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zach_dunn said:
Hello all, I’m assuming most Catholics will say no, and that most Protestants will say yes, but I’ll ask anyway. I was talking to my girlfriend and her mother a while ago (both Protestant), and we were talking about praying to and veneration of Mary and the saints. After talking with my girlfriend about the matter, she now understands the idea and thinks that it is tenable and has actually come to believe some things about Mary such as her perpetual virginity. Even so, both her and her mother believe that there are some Catholics who simply take it too far and deify Mary and/or the saints. Any takes on this? What should I say?

Thanks to all of you!
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I’m Catholic and I honestly believe that there are some Catholics who do take their Marian devotion way too far. I have yet to meet any Catholic who I think went so far as to deify Mary or the saints, however.
 
Rawb said:
IMO it isn’t your place to try and correct your stepfather. There’s a father/child relationship there that shouldn’t be breached. My father is a protestant and I am Orthodox, but I don’t try and correct his false beliefs. That’s not my place.
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This is a tough one I suppose. I have a desire to obey the fourth commandment, but at the same time I cannot help but believe that even if I do as you say below and educate my siblings, he would lash out at me. I don’t have a desire to argue with him but to at least put the correct information out there . . . I dunno.
However, with my siblings I (and you) have more freedom. Especially if they’re significantly younger than you. Have you thought about getting them a book on your faith? There’s one I used to have as a Catholic…I can’t recall the exact title, but it was something like “The Catholic Guide for Teens” or “The Teen guide to Catholicism”. I think the cover was black and green
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Giving it for a baptismal anniversary would be perfect. Maybe pair it with a Catholic Teen Study Bible, if they have them.
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As I stated above, I believe this would only lead to animosity. Plus, I really don’t think the two siblings would care or even flip through it. They go to church 3 times a week but know nothing about the faith and have virtually no spiritual life. It’s rather sad, actually.
 
When I officially decided to convert to the Catholic Church, I had several key concerns. So I went to the senior Pastor at the area parish. One of the questions I asked was: ** are Catholics ever “required” to pray to someone other than God. The Priest said “absolutely not.”**

He also said, it is not required to pray the rosary, and if you do obtain and use rosary beads, there are many alternate prayers that do not invoke anyone other than God (i.e., the Jesus Prayer, the Our Father, the Doxology, etc.).

Personally, I have no issues with the standard Hail Mary devotions (or the 4 official Marian dogmas), but there are several Marian devotions I refrain from and I draw the line at the 5th doctrine if “Co” is misapplied to mean Associate versus Assistant or Helper.

Hope this helps.
 
Senecus said:
When I officially decided to convert to the Catholic Church, I had several key concerns. So I went to the senior Pastor at the area parish. One of the questions I asked was: ** are Catholics ever “required” to pray to someone other than God. The Priest said “absolutely not.”**

He also said, it is not required to pray the rosary, and if you do obtain and use rosary beads, there are many alternate prayers that do not invoke anyone other than God (i.e., the Jesus Prayer, the Our Father, the Doxology, etc.).

Personally, I have no issues with the standard Hail Mary devotions (or the 4 official Marian dogmas), but there are several Marian devotions I refrain from and I draw the line at the 5th doctrine if “Co” is misapplied to mean Associate versus Assistant or Helper.

Hope this helps.
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So are you saying that if Mary is declared to be Co-Mediatrix you believe the Church would be in error? Or do you believe it depends on the meaning of Co-Mediatrix?
 
There is no potentiality for error, with the status quo.

The Popes have expressed concern (particularly Benedict), that mis-interpretation of the 5th Doctrine (if Dogmatized) could lead to significant divisions and controversies.

There is a concern, that ultra-Marionism could lead to situations that are unthinkable now - - a false belief that prayer to Mary is required for Jesus to hear us. This belief is actually “dis-empowering the Holy Spirit.”

As Scripture states, the Spirit resides within us and He is more than capable enough of sending our prayers to Mary or to whomever God has delegated such authority (including Saints & Angels of whom we have no knowledge of).

So, bottom line for me is prayer to Mary/Saints “for intercession” can be useful, IF it is the catalyst for encouraging someone to pray when otherwise they might not.
 
Senecus said:
There is no potentiality for error, with the status quo.

The Popes have expressed concern (particularly Benedict), that mis-interpretation of the 5th Doctrine (if Dogmatized) could lead to significant divisions and controversies.

There is a concern, that ultra-Marionism could lead to situations that are unthinkable now - - a false belief that prayer to Mary is required for Jesus to hear us. This belief is actually “dis-empowering the Holy Spirit.”

As Scripture states, the Spirit resides within us and He is more than capable enough of sending our prayers to Mary or to whomever God has delegated such authority (including Saints & Angels of whom we have no knowledge of).

So, bottom line for me is prayer to Mary/Saints “for intercession” can be useful, IF it is the catalyst for encouraging someone to pray when otherwise they might not.
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First of all “Hi Omaha!” I’m just outside of Omaha a little ways 🙂

Second, some believe that prayer to Mary IS required for Jesus to hear us! Just these past few days I received some pm’s from someone telling me that very thing! He also told me that unless I pray to Mary, I can’t get into Heaven because Mary won’t vouch for me before Jesus on the Last Day. This line of thinking concerns me a great deal.
 
Sandalwood said:
Second, some believe that prayer to Mary IS required for Jesus to hear us! Just these past few days I received some pm’s from someone telling me that very thing! He also told me that unless I pray to Mary, I can’t get into Heaven because Mary won’t vouch for me before Jesus on the Last Day. This line of thinking concerns me a great deal.
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If that is accurate then those people are completely out of line in regards to the teaching of the Church.
 
Don’t be concerned . . . if a proxy or other third-party is required to carry our prayers to God, don’t you think Jesus would have instructed us? In the “Our Father”, which is considered the most honored example of how to pray - - we are instructed to pray directly to the Father.

So don’t be distracted or concerned by supposed “additional” prayer requirements. Trust in Jesus, and you’ll be OK.
 
Senecus said:
Don’t be concerned . . . if a proxy or other third-party is required to carry our prayers to God, don’t you think Jesus would have instructed us? In the “Our Father”, which is considered the most honored example of how to pray - - we are instructed to pray directly to the Father.

So don’t be distracted or concerned by supposed “additional” prayer requirements. Trust in Jesus, and you’ll be OK.
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I’m not concerned for myself or anything. And I firmly believe that we can and should pray to Mary and the saints for I believe it will bring each person who does it closer to Christ. BUT, and it’s a big ‘but’, everyone should be praying to the Father. That’s extremely important. My only concern is for the people who do, unfortunately, take it too far.
 
jwinch2 said:
I like a nice healthy 2:1 or 3:1 ratio of praying to the Blessed Trinity versus praying to any saint, including Mary or my patron, Saint Michael, for their intercession. 🙂

Peace,
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I agree, after all, we have a relationship with the Trinitarian God ourselves as I jn notes, we should make the most advantage of this.

Of course some people will claim that were too heavenly minded or something but that is the telos of our salvation, to love the LORD our God with all of our hearts, minds, soul and stregnth.

Mary is the most venerated because she is blessed and all generations are still calling her so.
 
zach_dunn said:
So are you saying that if Mary is declared to be Co-Mediatrix you believe the Church would be in error? Or do you believe it depends on the meaning of Co-Mediatrix?
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This is of particular concern to me. It’s my personal opinion tha Marian devotion is carried too far by many Catholics. Some of them declare themselves to be a Marionite Catholic. To dogmatically declare Mary a Co-Mediatrix (or more disturbingly a Co-Redemptrix) is a step too far and would fuel an already near-apostate position held by some and the perception that Catholics worship Mary.
 
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