Do the Church Fathers really help us understand Christianity better?

  • Thread starter Thread starter JDGaney
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
J

JDGaney

Guest
I heard Fundamentalist Dave Hunt say that we should not look to the Church Fathers, even though they were taught by the Apostles, themselves, because Paul said the Galatians would have heresies arise from themselves, despite that they were taught by Paul, and the epistles were written to correct error…
 
I heard Fundamentalist Dave Hunt say that we should not look to the Church Fathers, even though they were taught by the Apostles, themselves, because Paul said the Galatians would have heresies arise from themselves, despite that they were taught by Paul, and the epistles were written to correct error…
 
JDGaney said:
I heard Fundamentalist Dave Hunt say that we should not look to the Church Fathers, even though they were taught by the Apostles, themselves, because Paul said the Galatians would have heresies arise from themselves, despite that they were taught by Paul, and the epistles were written to correct error…
Click to expand...
That’s a neat little trick on his part. We are to trust his interpretation of scripture over people who knew the apostles.? Is that because Fathers are too "Catholic " for his taste.?
So many Protestants have become Catholic by studying the Fathers.trying to cut them off by a little subterfuge I’d say.
 
JDGaney said:
I heard Fundamentalist Dave Hunt say that we should not look to the Church Fathers, even though they were taught by the Apostles, themselves, because Paul said the Galatians would have heresies arise from themselves, despite that they were taught by Paul, and the epistles were written to correct error…
Click to expand...
Dave Hunt is really reaching with that one. What evidence does he have for the Church Fathers being heretics? His own disbelief in what they taught? Hardly convincing.
 
If the Church Fathers don’t help us to understand Christianity better, then we might as well scrap the faith as a whole. They determined the canon of Scripture, after all, so we wouldn’t even have a Bible. If Protestants would really prefer a 2,000 year gap from Christ to them in terms of understanding Christianity (which honestly wouldn’t surprise me), then the faith they adhere to shows little promise. I’ll keep to understanding my faith through an unbroken history, using it all in context. It’s worked for 2,000 years. Surely we must be doing something right…
 
JDGaney said:
I heard Fundamentalist Dave Hunt say that we should not look to the Church Fathers, even though they were taught by the Apostles, themselves, because Paul said the Galatians would have heresies arise from themselves, despite that they were taught by Paul, and the epistles were written to correct error…
Click to expand...
Unwittingly or not Hunt points out the need for a living magisterium to help keep the Church on the right path. Hunt is right, not everything the Church fathers has been accepted as true or accurate, the fathers occasionally disagreed with each other.

But with a good solid Biblical knowledge and a good base of Church teaching one can read the Church fathers and glean a whole lot of valuable information from them.

ChadS
 
If the Fathers do not understand Christianity, how can we hope that we can? What makes us better than them?

Yes, the Fathers do help us understand Christianity better. In fact, my recent interest and reading on Patristics have helped me understand Scripture better. And I am only beginning. Imagine by the time I have read a few Fathers teachings and writings, the words of Scripture would totally look different and will open my eyes to the true meaning of the words. I suggest this very highly, read up on the teachings of the Fathers.
 
HI JD

The first Christians were not infallible, nor were the Fathers. But the writings of the Fathers help us understand better the tenets of our faith as expressed in the Bible and Tradition. As a matter of fact they are precious witnesses to what we call Tradition, the parts of our faith that are not explicit in the Bible.

There is growing respect of the Fathers on the part of Protestants, but it is not surprising that some of the more radicals evangelicals should be wary as they recognize only the Bible as the source of truth.

It is important to understand that the Church does not accept every writing of a Father as gospel truth, But she recognizes the “consensus of the Fathers” as expressilng the mind of the Church, and that is infallible truth, since Christ guaranteed that he would be with us until the end of time.

For a good article in the Catholic Encycklopedia on this subject, go to
newadvent.org/cathen/06001a.htm

You might also consider buying the book by our own Jimmy Aklns : The Fathers Know Best. See catholicism.about.com/u/reviews/Catholic-Book-Reviews/Write-A-Review-Of-A-Catholic-Book/The-Fathers-Know-Best-by-Jimmy-Akin.htm
 
Hi JD,

Don’t be surprised if this thread is expunged. You started the same one elsewhere, and I contributed an answer.

Verbum
 
JDGaney said:
I heard Fundamentalist Dave Hunt say that we should not look to the Church Fathers, even though they were taught by the Apostles, themselves, because Paul said the Galatians would have heresies arise from themselves, despite that they were taught by Paul, and the epistles were written to correct error…
Click to expand...
And Dave Hunt is not one of those heresies, since he directly and obstinately violates 2 Thessalonians 2:14? Really… 🤷
Della said:
Dave Hunt is really reaching with that one. What evidence does he have for the Church Fathers being heretics? His own disbelief in what they taught? Hardly convincing.
Click to expand...
He discovered to his horror, shock and revulsion that they were Catholic. :eek:
juliamajor said:
That’s a neat little trick on his part. We are to trust his interpretation of scripture over people who knew the apostles.? Is that because Fathers are too "Catholic " for his taste.?
So many Protestants have become Catholic by studying the Fathers.trying to cut them off by a little subterfuge I’d say.
Click to expand...
Old Dave is simply protecting his income. I see that as a good thing - right up to the point where truth is compromised.
JDGaney said:
I heard Fundamentalist Dave Hunt say that we should not look to the Church Fathers, even though they were taught by the Apostles, themselves, because Paul said the Galatians would have heresies arise from themselves, despite that they were taught by Paul, and the epistles were written to correct error…
Click to expand...
You’ll have to cut Dave a little slack. He has only 90% of the bible. Even so, he has done all right. No Joel Osteen, but he gets by.
 
Verbum said:
HI JD

The first Christians were not infallible, nor were the Fathers. But the writings of the Fathers help us understand better the tenets of our faith as expressed in the Bible and Tradition. As a matter of fact they are precious witnesses to what we call Tradition, the parts of our faith that are not explicit in the Bible.

There is growing respect of the Fathers on the part of Protestants, but it is not surprising that some of the more radicals evangelicals should be wary as they recognize only the Bible as the source of truth.

It is important to understand that the Church does not accept every writing of a Father as gospel truth, But she recognizes the “consensus of the Fathers” as expressilng the mind of the Church, and that is infallible truth, since Christ guaranteed that he would be with us until the end of time.

For a good article in the Catholic Encycklopedia on this subject, go to
newadvent.org/cathen/06001a.htm

You might also consider buying the book by our own Jimmy Aklns : The Fathers Know Best. See catholicism.about.com/u/reviews/Catholic-Book-Reviews/Write-A-Review-Of-A-Catholic-Book/The-Fathers-Know-Best-by-Jimmy-Akin.htm
Click to expand...
The radial evangelical position is very illogical. There is often a resistance to listening to the Fathers because they are not ‘inspired’, but neither do they listen to the Church that declared which books were inspired!

The Fathers make the evangelical non sacramental Christianity I used to be involved with untenable as far as I’m concerned. I don’t think Dave Hunts position has any merit, especially if we listen to the concensus of the Fathers. It’s basically saying the Church is apostate; and if that’s true then why would you trust an apostate Church to discern the cannon.
 
If I was to address his statement about the Fathers as if it were asked by a curious/confused non-Catholic, I would reply: “If the Church was so misdirected, why would the Church have included Galatians in the NT canon? Wouldn’t they have discarded it, ignored it, or otherwise swept it under the proverbial rug? Since this isn’t the case, maybe your interpretation of Galatians is misdirected…”

Though, it is funny that the problems Paul’s letter to the Galatians does sound sort of Anti-Modern-Day-Western-Unevangelized-Not-Well-Formed-“Catholic”… doesn’t it?
 
may_they_be_one said:
If I was to address his statement about the Fathers as if it were asked by a curious/confused non-Catholic, I would reply: “If the Church was so misdirected, why would the Church have included Galatians in the NT canon? Wouldn’t they have discarded it, ignored it, or otherwise swept it under the proverbial rug? Since this isn’t the case, maybe your interpretation of Galatians is misdirected…”

Though, it is funny that the problems Paul’s letter to the Galatians does sound sort of Anti-Modern-Day-Western-Unevangelized-Not-Well-Formed-“Catholic”… doesn’t it?
Click to expand...
Remind them that the bible was not finalized until well after many of the early Church fathers provided their influence. It’s a both-and deal here and not an either-or.
 
Absolutely! More information is ALWAYS better than less. If they are in fact early Christians; and were in fact far closer to the origin than we are; and were in fact students of the Apostles themselves… how can that NOT be a help???

ALSO… Mr. Dave Hunt (an embarassingly anti-Catholic ‘apologist’) recomends NOT reading the Early Church Fathers. So… to me that means the Fathers are VERY helpful to understanding Christianity! 🙂 Read away, my brother!
 
rfournier103 said:
Absolutely! More information is ALWAYS better than less. If they are in fact early Christians; and were in fact far closer to the origin than we are; and were in fact students of the Apostles themselves… how can that NOT be a help???

ALSO… Mr. Dave Hunt (an embarassingly anti-Catholic ‘apologist’) recomends NOT reading the Early Church Fathers. So… to me that means the Fathers are VERY helpful to understanding Christianity! 🙂 Read away, my brother!
Click to expand...
Honestly… I wrote this reply without even seeing Dave Hunt’s name. I heard him say he doesn’t encourage reading the Church Fathers while I was watching a video about why so many Evangelicals were becoming Catholic. The old man just doesn’t get it. I’d LOVE to know where the ‘Early Church’ got it’s guidance from BEFORE the Bible was compiled? Mr. Hunt has NEVER even touched THAT one… He’s got NOTHIN’! He seems to think that the BIBLE is everything. Sadly for him, that is not so. GOD is everything.
 
JDGaney said:
I heard Fundamentalist Dave Hunt say that we should not look to the Church Fathers, even though they were taught by the Apostles, themselves, because Paul said the Galatians would have heresies arise from themselves, despite that they were taught by Paul, and the epistles were written to correct error…
Click to expand...
The reason why Dave Hunt - whoever that is - would say not to look at the Church Fathers is that almost every interview on the Journey Home with Marcus Grodi of an Evangelical or Fundamentalist Protestant Minister states the fact that when they started studying the Fathers they started their own journey home.
 
JDGaney said:
I heard Fundamentalist Dave Hunt say that we should not look to the Church Fathers, even though they were taught by the Apostles, themselves, because Paul said the Galatians would have heresies arise from themselves, despite that they were taught by Paul, and the epistles were written to correct error…
Click to expand...
These same fundamentalists also never read aloud or comment on 1 Timothy 3:15:

“But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.” To be sure, they teach that Christ was two weak to protect His Church from error.

I am from the former so-called “Church of Christ” heretical sect, so I know. Christ was weak, but Stone and Campbell were strong!
 
ConstantineTG said:
If the Fathers do not understand Christianity, how can we hope that we can? What makes us better than them?

Yes, the Fathers do help us understand Christianity better. In fact, my recent interest and reading on Patristics have helped me understand Scripture better. And I am only beginning. Imagine by the time I have read a few Fathers teachings and writings, the words of Scripture would totally look different and will open my eyes to the true meaning of the words. I suggest this very highly, read up on the teachings of the Fathers.
Click to expand...
I would not have found Christ’s Catholic Church without the writings of the ancient Church Fathers. From the 1st century onward they taught the catholic faith, while protestant teaching was nowhere to be found. This is how we know ours is the correct faith. Christ made His Holy Church the pillar and ground of the truth.
 
I’ll keep to understanding my faith through an unbroken history
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top