Do these images prove that early Christianity had FEMALE priests?

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OK… first off thanks for all the posts… They are exactly what I have come to expect on Catholic Answer Forums… All you rock, and I can’t thank you enough…

In all honesty I am sad for many on Fr. Martin’s FB Wall, there is so much vitriol against the Catholic Church and her teaching… to read the venum is a bit overwehlming at times… I will not be surprised if I remove myself from it… I however think it is an excellent opportunity to evangalize… I often link to Catholic Answers on his wall…

God Bless You all!!!
 
I removed myself promptly. Disagreed with him and received a scathing reply, like how dare you disagree with me. He is not worth my time.
 
Anyone else think the people in the Frescoes look like an early form of a Choir? The woman appears to be holding her hands up in the same manner a cantor or lead singer might, or what Protestants call a “worship leader” or “Music Pastor”.

Far more viable explanation to me…
 
I don’t know anyone who doesn’t agree that women were integral in the formation of early Christianity, from Mary and Mary Magdalene to Perpetua and Felicity and on and on.
There is the question of what their role was vis-vis men, of the importance given to Thecla by EO as as great as(or greater than) an apostle, the selection of Mary Magdalene into the inner circle of Jesus and the effect that that had on early forms of Christianity.
Paul speaks of there being no man or woman in Christ, of full equality of all of us in Christ therefore, and of women prophecying in churches, and Prisca being a leader of her house church mentioned before her husband. (He) also speaks of women needing to be silent in churches, which is inconsistent with his early message of women prophesying.
Clearly then, there were different traditions bubbling up even in the very earliest dates of Scripture composition.
We do know that other Christian traditions, just as early as the proto-orthodox, did have a female ordained priesthood, such as the Marcionites and the gnostics.
Orthodox traditions have not appeared whole cloth, but they have been hammered out from the very beginning, such as was the case between the Biblically recorded dispute between Peter and Paul on the law.
Traditions develop. Origen, the first philosopher of Trinity, certainly is not considered orthodox now, but he was considered fully orthodox in his own lifetime, and the most prominent philosophical orthodox voice in the church of his day. Some of the works of Augustine on free will were fully orthodox until the time of popes censuring the same kinds of ideals in the time of Pascal and the Calvinist development of that Augustinian train of thought.
Traditions and practices develop. Practices that are fallen away from are censured and forgotten.
It is not a settled question of how the ordained priesthood developed, and what priestly functions women themselves may have played in the early churches. Often churches were not bigger than extended families, after all, and the diversity of churches in those early days of a decentralized and fragmented persecuted leadership was great. Indeed we are all members of the priesthood in Catholic theology; we are all a nation of priests.
Priestly functions could be as informal as annointing Jesus’ feet with oil in preparation of his death, for example. As structures became more formalized, as in the letters of Timothy, the structures we have today become more apparent. the early church however was very much in flux.
This discussion is about whether or not there were females ordained to the priesthood, which of course there were not because it is an impossibility, and which of course this image does not depict as Church teaching, much less “prove,” as the sensational headline suggests.
Headlines are to provoke interest and readership and discussion. This headline is a question and not a statement of definite proof. The article itself notes well enough that these findings are open to interpretation and dispute.
As for being impossible, I assume that what you mean is that it is impossible because the HS cannot teach contrary to what he has already taught through magesterium.
There has been strong ruling from as late as JPII on this, and the political controversy is heating up now as Catholic reformers are taking a cue from Pope Francis as the memory of JPII fades, but there is no infallible teaching on the ordination of women.

I have no opinion either way, frankly. Given the very suggestive role that Priscilla played in her own church as recorded in the Bible though, it is not impossible that a church that bears her name may have frescoes that demonstrate that the role that women played in that church at that time may well have been different than what would be the case in Catholic orthodoxy today.
 
There is the question of what their role was vis-vis men, of the importance given to Thecla by EO as as great as(or greater than) an apostle, the selection of Mary Magdalene into the inner circle of Jesus and the effect that that had on early forms of Christianity.
Paul speaks of there being no man or woman in Christ, of full equality of all of us in Christ therefore, and of women prophecying in churches, and Prisca being a leader of her house church mentioned before her husband. (He) also speaks of women needing to be silent in churches, which is inconsistent with his early message of women prophesying.
Clearly then, there were different traditions bubbling up even in the very earliest dates of Scripture composition.
We do know that other Christian traditions, just as early as the proto-orthodox, did have a female ordained priesthood, such as the Marcionites and the gnostics.
Orthodox traditions have not appeared whole cloth, but they have been hammered out from the very beginning, such as was the case between the Biblically recorded dispute between Peter and Paul on the law.
Traditions develop. Origen, the first philosopher of Trinity, certainly is not considered orthodox now, but he was considered fully orthodox in his own lifetime, and the most prominent philosophical orthodox voice in the church of his day. Some of the works of Augustine on free will were fully orthodox until the time of popes censuring the same kinds of ideals in the time of Pascal and the Calvinist development of that Augustinian train of thought.
Traditions and practices develop. Practices that are fallen away from are censured and forgotten.
It is not a settled question of how the ordained priesthood developed, and what priestly functions women themselves may have played in the early churches. Often churches were not bigger than extended families, after all, and the diversity of churches in those early days of a decentralized and fragmented persecuted leadership was great. Indeed we are all members of the priesthood in Catholic theology; we are all a nation of priests.
Priestly functions could be as informal as annointing Jesus’ feet with oil in preparation of his death, for example. As structures became more formalized, as in the letters of Timothy, the structures we have today become more apparent. the early church however was very much in flux.

Headlines are to provoke interest and readership and discussion. This headline is a question and not a statement of definite proof. The article itself notes well enough that these findings are open to interpretation and dispute.
As for being impossible, I assume that what you mean is that it is impossible because the HS cannot teach contrary to what he has already taught through magesterium.
There has been strong ruling from as late as JPII on this, and the political controversy is heating up now as Catholic reformers are taking a cue from Pope Francis as the memory of JPII fades, but there is no infallible teaching on the ordination of women.

I have no opinion either way, frankly. Given the very suggestive role that Priscilla played in her own church as recorded in the Bible though, it is not impossible that a church that bears her name may have frescoes that demonstrate that the role that women played in that church at that time may well have been different than what would be the case in Catholic orthodoxy today.
Actually the Church has dogmatically and clearly pronounced that she cannot ordain female priests, the priestly role of women is the honorable one of the royal priesthood. You may have a different view, but it would be yours and not Church teaching.
 
Actually the Church has dogmatically and clearly pronounced that she cannot ordain female priests, the priestly role of women is the honorable one of the royal priesthood. You may have a different view, but it would be yours and not Church teaching.
My view is neither more nor less than what the RC’s is.
The ruling for a male only priesthood is strong, doctrinal, but not dogmatic.
As for what it was long before such formal statements could even have been possible and universally applied, that is an open question, far from settled as historic fact.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_doctrine_on_the_ordination_of_women
 
What do you mean by the bolded?
You would have to go to my wiki link for the answer to that:
In 1976, the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith discussed the issue of the ordination of women and issued a Declaration on the Question of the Admission of Women to the Ministerial Priesthood which concluded that for various doctrinal, theological, and historical reasons, the church “… does not consider herself authorized to admit women to priestly ordination.” The most important reasons stated were first, the church’s determination to remain faithful to its constant tradition, second, its fidelity to Christ’s will, and third, the idea of male representation due to the “sacramental nature” of the priesthood. In April 1976, the Pontifical Biblical Commission released a study examining the exclusion of women from the ministerial priesthood from a biblical perspective. They made the following points: “The masculine character of the hierarchical order which has structured the church since its beginning…seems attested to by scripture in an undeniable way.” “As a matter of fact, we see in the Acts of the Apostles and the epistles that the first [Christian] communities were always directed by men exercising the apostolic power.”[18] However, in the conclusion of the document, they write:
"It does not seem that the New Testament by itself alone will permit us to settle in a clear way and once and for all the problem of the possible accession of women to the presbyterate.
In the early years, as I have pointed out in previous posts-and a majority opinion of the above commission agrees to, the Scriptural evidence points inconclusively in diverse directions, and indeed what was or was not considered orthodoxy before creeds came to the fore was as diverse as the Scriptural record suggests it was.

Like in the controversy between Peter and Paul over the Law, like in the Origen formulations on the nature of Trinity, the orthodox position is one that develops. Before the position is laid out, what exists is a diversity of practice, which may or may not fade over time, depending on the strength of the now orthodox position to enforce/persuade/proselytyze the conclusion that it has drawn.
 
The ruling for a male only priesthood is strong, doctrinal, but not dogmatic.
It is dogmatic that the Church cannot ordain a woman because it is impossible. The natural resemblance demanded in a sacrament requires a male to fill the role of Christ, the bridegroom. The first quote below contains all the requirements for a statement of infallibility. And the following two quotes are from each Pope since, confirming that it was such a dogmatic teaching.
*Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful. (Pope John Paul II, speaking ex cathedra, Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, 1994)

Recently a group of priests from a European country issued a summons to disobedience, and at the same time gave concrete examples of the forms this disobedience might take, even to the point of disregarding definitive decisions of the Church’s Magisterium, such as the question of women’s ordination, for which Blessed Pope John Paul II stated irrevocably that the Church has received no authority from the Lord. (Pope Benedict XVI, April 5, 2012)

And, with reference to the ordination of women, the Church has spoken and she said : “No.” John Paul II said it, but with a definitive formulation. That is closed, that door is closed. (Pope Francis I, July 28, 2013)*
 
Why is it always Fr. James Martin with these things? He’s the one that made up the women Cardinals thing too :confused:
He wrote a book (From memory: My life with the Saints?) in which the title suggested it would be meditations about catholic saints and how the author found them profoundly relevant to his life. Unfortunately, he mixed in actual saints with other distinguished people piecemeal with the unwritten suggestion that distinguished lives and sanctity are the same thing.
 
This post is satirical
VATICAN–Newly restored frescoes from the Catacombs of Priscilla were unveiled by the Vatican on Tuesday, some of which reveal that women in early Christianity were able to lift their hands in the air. This has led some to conclude that if a woman was able to lift her hands above her shoulders as the image suggests, then early Christians must have allowed women to become priests. The Catacombs, which are located in the northern part of Rome, and are better known as the “Queen of the catacombs” features 4th century paintings from biblical scenes, one showing an image of a woman able to raise her arms above her shoulders, like a man. For 48-year-old Desiree Gibson of New Haven, Connecticut, this raises the question, “If women are no different than men with regards to upper limb dexterity, then why can’t women become priests now?” According to Fabrizio Bisconti, the superintendent of the Vatican’s Sacred Archaeology Commission, the woman on the picture “is indeed celebrating Eucharist.” “I would not have believed it had I not seen it with my own eyes. The image is clearly one of a woman celebrating Mass. I feel so stupid. All these years we were led to believe that women have never been and can never become priests. But this image of the woman raising her hands just above her shoulders is undeniable proof that women were priests in the early Church.”
eyeofthetiber.com/2013/11/22/newly-revealed-catacomb-painting-undeniable-proof-that-women-were-able-to-raise-hands-in-air-in-early-church
 
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