Do traditional icons and images of Jesus and Mary as WHITE-SKINNED people harm efforts to evangelize our dark-skinned brethren?

[DylanO]

Chances are that they were darker skinned just because of how they were able to hide out in egypt. That would have been hard for anyone with fair skin.

The Ancient Egyptians were not black, they were Mediterranean Caucasians. The Ancient Israelites were predominately Mediterranean Caucasians, with Alpine and Nordic (mostly in the Northern Kingdom of Israel).

Here are some pictures of the ancient Israelites:



Israelite Slaves in Egypt from before the Exodus. Often described as Hebrews, blond types are present alongside others. The genetic potential of Israelites was variegated from the beginning.



Israelite man: fair-skinned, blue-eyed, slightly reddish beard, fringes on garment, colored striped garment, typical Israelite clothing and hair style.



Subjects from the Ancient Northern Kingdom of Israel.

Ancient tiled pictures have been uncovered in the region of Nazareth (Sepphoris 4 miles away from Nazareth) from the time of Christ which show all white people, workmen and nobles alike.







According to the Shroud of Turin, this is what Jesus looked like:

http://www.operationjesuspictures.com/LargeJesus.jpg

They were from the middle east, not from Ireland, not from Asia, and definately not from America…

Actually, Irish people are descended from the Lost Tribes of Israel, (just as most Europeans are). Irish people are descended from Mil Espaine who was the father of the Milesian Celts; he was from the Tribe of Judah, descended from Judah’s son Zarah.

 

[Patchunky]

In fact even the Muslim church in America is like that–one mosque for American (black) Muslims and another for native (Arabic) Muslims.

From what my Moslem friends explained to me, the form of Islam practiced by African-American Moslems is NOT like any form of Islam practiced in the Middle East and other Moslem countries. It is something “unique” to the US and sometimes brings African-Americans Moslems into friction with other Moslems.

Hope this helps…

 

[ahem]

The Ancient Egyptians were not black, they were Mediterranean Caucasians. The Ancient Israelites were predominately Mediterranean Caucasians, with Alpine and Nordic (mostly in the Northern Kingdom of Israel).

Actually, Irish people are descended from the Lost Tribes of Israel, (just as most Europeans are). Irish people are descended from Mil Espaine who was the father of the Milesian Celts; he was from the Tribe of Judah, descended from Judah’s son Zarah.

These points of view are not archeologically accurate but certainly consistent with both British-Israelism and also white supremacists.

Outside of a section of the North Atlantic, nobody believes this.

 

[ahem]

Chances are that they were darker skinned just because of how they were able to hide out in egypt. That would have been hard for anyone with fair skin.

They were from the middle east, not from Ireland, not from Asia, and definately not from America…

Does it really matter what color they were??

Although it is unlikely they were white like most Europeans, they did not hide in Egypt because they were dark. Egypt had more enclaves of Jews than anywhere in the Mediterranean.

Jesus’ family had to stay among Jews because of kosher laws, anyway.

It matters what color they were only if one wants to be historically accurate, and not abuse their visage for oppressive purposes.

 

[DylanO]

These points of view are not archeologically accurate but certainly consistent with both British-Israelism and also white supremacists.

Outside of a section of the North Atlantic, nobody believes this.

This has indeed been backed up by ancient Irish records and archeology. The same goes for the Israelite anthropology. I recommend a book called Missing Links Discovered in Assyrian Tablets Reveal the Fate of the Lost Tribes of Israel by E. Raymond Capt.

 

[ahem]

This has indeed been backed up by ancient Irish records and archeology. The same goes for the Israelite anthropology. I recommend a book called Missing Links Discovered in Assyrian Tablets Reveal the Fate of the Lost Tribes of Israel by E. Raymond Capt.

Are these the same records that prove “How the Irish Saved Civilization?”

I had never heard of that author but did a search on amazon and his titles debunk the book before I would even consider it–sorry–sheer quackery.

 

[DylanO]

Are these the same records that prove “How the Irish Saved Civilization?”

No.

I had never heard of that author but did a search on amazon and his titles debunk the book before I would even consider it–sorry–sheer quackery.

His titles debunk the book? Wow, how pathetic!

Which titles would that be?

Missing links discovered in Assyrian tablets: Study of Assyrian tables that reveal the fate of the Lost tribes of Israel?

Jacob’s Pillar?

Study in Pyramidology?

Stonehenge and Druidism?

King Solomon’s Temple?

Scottish Declaration of Independence?

or

Petra?

I see nothing looking like ‘quackery’ here. Afraid of what you might find?

 

[ahem]

No.

His titles debunk the book? Wow, how pathetic!

Which titles would that be?

Missing links discovered in Assyrian tablets: Study of Assyrian tables that reveal the fate of the Lost tribes of Israel?

Jacob’s Pillar?

Study in Pyramidology?

Stonehenge and Druidism?

King Solomon’s Temple?

Scottish Declaration of Independence?

or

Petra?

I see nothing looking like ‘quackery’ here. Afraid of what you might find?

YES!! Very afraid. I am a scholar and am discreet about what I read. Life is too short to read junk knowingly. This guy is an unknown in anthropology and archeology. And he has access to a “lost chapter of the Book of Acts?” Oooh! Didn’t he know the Mormons already have that? A special revelation? The Da Vinci code is no less appealing to me. It’s nothing but history’s most common deception: Gnosticism.

If here has so much to offer why don’t you start a wikipedia page on him and see what kind of edits you get?

 

[Apryl]

It cannot accept that people in general are not affected by the images, especially if they think they represent deity.

The true images of God are not icons, but rather humanity, which is accurately racially diverse, and also male and female. Jesus was the true and essential Israelite and since Israel was the ambassador people to the nations (historically failing but ultimately succeeding in Christ) it is important that he was Jewish.

In my view, if the icon is not of a Palestinian Jew, there need be no icon at all, and anything otherwise is racist, deceptive, and as such, sinful.

Let me be sure that I understand you: you think that ‘traditional’ images do affect evangelization efforts?

 

[ahem]

Let me be sure that I understand you: you think that ‘traditional’ images do affect evangelization efforts?

Yes, and it smacks of imperialism. Converts are less likely to be genuine, rather responding to the wealth and sophistication of the presenting culture.

 

[Apryl]

Yes, and it smacks of imperialism. Converts are less likely to be genuine, rather responding to the wealth and sophistication of the presenting culture.

And I agree with you… even though I really don’t know what ‘imperialism’ means - I’ve seen the word, but like many other ‘isms’, I think that I have yet to encounter someone with some unbiased definition.

 

[ahem]

And I agree with you… even though I really don’t know what ‘imperialism’ means - I’ve seen the word, but like many other ‘isms’, I think that I have yet to encounter someone with some unbiased definition.

By the word I mean in the sense offered in any standard dictionary.

 

[Nino]

Hmm… It seems the idea for many of us is that historical accuracy is non-essential.

Yes…we must all be PC now …Gen.Custer is shown usually with long hair in paintings of the little big horn battle…when he actually had a haircut…as did all officers and men during the summer months…but it somehow looks ‘right’. Jesus has been pictured mostly as a long-haired hippie type…with a sorrowful look,no muscle and caved in chest…but He was a carpenter and mason in an age of no power tools…why do you think the money changers did not challenge Him…Jesus was one well built laborer!!! We know the spikes were driven thru His wrist for the palms of the hand would not hold and support His weight…we know He was whipped some 39 lashes…His body had to have been covered with scars and blood…how many scenes do we see of this…most show the crucifixion as a day in the park…etc etc…Lets remember for Jesus to be able to approach sick people and convince them to …“stand and walk you are cured!” He had to look healthy and strong and vibrant or else the sick one would moan…'doctor heal thyself!"

 

[ahem]

Yes…we must all be PC now …Gen.Custer is shown usually with long hair in paintings of the little big horn battle…when he actually had a haircut…as did all officers and men during the summer months…but it somehow looks ‘right’. Jesus has been pictured mostly as a long-haired hippie type…with a sorrowful look,no muscle and caved in chest…but He was a carpenter and mason in an age of no power tools…why do you think the money changers did not challenge Him…Jesus was one well built laborer!!! We know the spikes were driven thru His wrist for the palms of the hand would not hold and support His weight…we know He was whipped some 39 lashes…His body had to have been covered with scars and blood…how many scenes do we see of this…most show the crucifixion as a day in the park…etc etc…Lets remember for Jesus to be able to approach sick people and convince them to …“stand and walk you are cured!” He had to look healthy and strong and vibrant or else the sick one would moan…'doctor heal thyself!"

PC stands for “politically correct” in my lexicon. I am thinking of historical accuracy. They may or may not be homologous.

 

[inthecloud]

Quote:
Originally Posted by DylanO
The Ancient Egyptians were not black, they were Mediterranean Caucasians. The Ancient Israelites were predominately Mediterranean Caucasians, with Alpine and Nordic (mostly in the Northern Kingdom of Israel).

Actually, Irish people are descended from the Lost Tribes of Israel, (just as most Europeans are). Irish people are descended from Mil Espaine who was the father of the Milesian Celts; he was from the Tribe of Judah, descended from Judah’s son Zarah."

All this is false.

1. DNA and antropological evidence shows that the Jews of 1 century Palestine were indentical to the sephadic jews and palestinian, syrians an lebanese arabs of today. Jesus, Mary and the Apostles looked like that.
2. DNA evidence shows that the Irish and the Welsh are related to the northern spaniards and south western french and the Basques.
   Please kept the WP stuff out of your mind.

 

[ahem]

Quote:
Originally Posted by DylanO
The Ancient Egyptians were not black, they were Mediterranean Caucasians. The Ancient Israelites were predominately Mediterranean Caucasians, with Alpine and Nordic (mostly in the Northern Kingdom of Israel).

Actually, Irish people are descended from the Lost Tribes of Israel, (just as most Europeans are). Irish people are descended from Mil Espaine who was the father of the Milesian Celts; he was from the Tribe of Judah, descended from Judah’s son Zarah."

All this is false.

1. DNA and antropological evidence shows that the Jews of 1 century Palestine were indentical to the sephadic jews and palestinian, syrians an lebanese arabs of today. Jesus, Mary and the Apostles looked like that.
2. DNA evidence shows that the Irish and the Welsh are related to the northern spaniards and south western french and the Basques.
   Please kept the WP stuff out of your mind.

I am with you–that garbage is fuel of White Supremacists.

 

[inthecloud]

About the DNA testing linking the Irish, the Welsh and the Basques read this:

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/1256894.stm

goldenageproject.org.uk/92basques.html

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celts
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Basques

freerepublic.com/forum/a3ad3d5dd6874.htm

“Dr. Goldstein said he and his colleagues found the same genetic signature in Basque men, suggesting that the Scots, Irish, Welsh and Basques all derive from the same, possibly very homogeneous, population that inhabited Europe in Paleolithic times. This finding implies that the Celtic language must have arrived in Britain largely by cultural diffusion, displacing the original, presumably Basque-type language spoken by the first settlers.”

In other words, the Scots, Irish, Welsh and Basques are direct decendants of the Cro-Magnon men that lived in prehistoric Europe and built the monoliths.

prospect-magazine.co.uk/article_details.php?id=7817

Everything you know about British and Irish ancestry is wrong. Our ancestors were Basques, not Celts. The Celts were not wiped out by the Anglo-Saxons, in fact neither had much impact on the genetic stock of these islands

And the Jews of Biblical times where middle easterners.

 

[deb1]

Yes, and it smacks of imperialism. Converts are less likely to be genuine, rather responding to the wealth and sophistication of the presenting culture.

How do you know this? Have you done studies on converts mental states to gauge the depth of their beliefs?

 

[Petergee]

Are these the same records that prove “How the Irish Saved Civilization?”

That book was written by Thomas Woods and is impeccably researched. It has no relation to the supposed “lost tribes of Israel”. Yes, the Irish monks basically did save civilisation during the 5th to 10th centuries.