Do we all really deserve Hell?

[mikekle]

Self deception is at the heart of sin. The devil’s favorite trick is to make us believe we are enough better than the ‘bar’ that we qualify as “good enough.” But look how you’re kidding yourself! You honestly believe that you’ve never hurt anybody, but you’re funneling money into the illicit drug trade, no? Do you have any idea how many people have been killed over drug money over the years?

ALL sin is like this, not just yours. I’m not singling out your sins, we’re all guilty of causing and contributing to misery, suffering and destruction in this world. You have to realize that Heaven isn’t just Disneyland on speed, it is a place where there IS no suffering, hurt, rejection or any of the other fruits of sin. For it to STAY heaven, we need to be saved not just from our sins, but from our inclination to sin. You and me both have a long ways to go on that front. If we’re let in ‘as-is’ we’ll trash the place and it won’t be heaven anymore. So unless we choose over and over and over again to let Grace transform and renew us, we do indeed deserve hell. Because that’s the only eternal alternative to heaven.

Ive never really though about it like that. it does make sense, but the only reason there is violence related to the drug industry is because of its illegal status in most countries, and this is imposed by the govts of those countries.

What about all the violence and death caused by alcohol? Why are these companies not put in the same category as the drug cartels by the media and general population? While they are not making as much money as the drug cartels, they have still caused alot of misery for alot of people, but in the mainstream business community, they are respected as successful business people. Seems like a double standard when it comes to alcohol and those for produce and distribute it.

Is this solely because all those in power realize prohibition was already attempted and did not work? Why do they not see this when it comes to the current drug prohibition?

Once drugs are made legal, this will remove all the criminal element out of it, compared to alcohol, deaths caused by current street drugs do not hold a candle to that!!! So in the end, we are at the will of our govt leaders and those that make the laws, so just because they feel drugs need to be illegal, then everyone who uses them is guilty and deserves hell? The only ones who deserve hell are the ones who make these laws in the first place.

 

[manualman]

What about all the violence and death caused by alcohol? Why are these companies not put in the same category as the drug cartels by the media and general population?

A worthy question, but a bit of a tangent for this thread. I think it’s actually been done in its own thread before. Try a search.

 

[LegoGE1947]

Self deception is at the heart of sin. The devil’s favorite trick is to make us believe we are enough better than the ‘bar’ that we qualify as “good enough.” But look how you’re kidding yourself! You honestly believe that you’ve never hurt anybody, but you’re funneling money into the illicit drug trade, no? Do you have any idea how many people have been killed over drug money over the years?

ALL sin is like this, not just yours. I’m not singling out your sins, we’re all guilty of causing and contributing to misery, suffering and destruction in this world. You have to realize that Heaven isn’t just Disneyland on speed, it is a place where there IS no suffering, hurt, rejection or any of the other fruits of sin. For it to STAY heaven, we need to be saved not just from our sins, but from our inclination to sin. You and me both have a long ways to go on that front. If we’re let in ‘as-is’ we’ll trash the place and it won’t be heaven anymore. So unless we choose over and over and over again to let Grace transform and renew us, we do indeed deserve hell. Because that’s the only eternal alternative to heaven.

I have a vice. It is one of the tools I have in the basement does anyone here believe it is a sin to grow tobacco.? I am reading a book called “A Philadelphia Catholic In King James Court” by Martin De Porres Kennedy. It is about a young Catholic boy who loses his dad in a fire, goes to Kentucky to spend the summer with his uncle, who is a Fundamentalist pastor. His uncle’s church has a split over whether the Bible condemns tobacco growing as a sin. I am not a tobacco user so I’m not sure whether the Bible condemns it or not. (At our parish we are studying this book as part of an apologetics class). Just wondering what some of you think on this.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Simple answer from the Baltimore Catechism;

Question: Why did God make you?

Answer: God made me to know Him, to love Him, and to serve Him in this world, and to be happy with Him forever in the next.

Don’t try and make it more complicated than this and you’ll be fine.

Jim

 

[mikekle]

Simple answer from the Baltimore Catechism;

Don’t try and make it more complicated than this and you’ll be fine.

Jim

The problem is God made man to be curious, and of course we are going to try and figure out what creation is all about, they ‘whys’ about the entire universe. God knew this would happen, and eventually, given enough time, mankind will probably discover many of the answers, as the years go by, man gets smarter and smarter, discovers more and more, putting 2 and 2 together, etc.

I wonder what our world will be like in another 200, 500, 1000 yrs, this is based on God not having his second coming during this time period, Our world in another 1000 yrs would probably look like an alien world if we could see it today, and one can only guess what kinds of things we will know for a fact then, What happens when man kind of becomes Gods? Im sure eventually we may try to create beings on another world, once we conquer space travel, mankind will be all over the universe, Im not sure God meant for all this though, as the bible ONLY refers to events happening on the earth. Will that change things if man starts living all over the solar system?

Something else to ponder…what happens when mankind gets the ability to go to where God and/or Satans domains are(heaven, hell) without dying? I read an article about our military and DARPA, they have been experimenting with other dimensions and trying to figure ways of creating openings to take a peek into other dimensions, EVENTUALLY, mankind WILL gain these technologies, it is crazy to think about!!

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Hell is mentioned in the Bible much more often than heaven

I don’t think so.

When Jesus talked about the Kingdom, he was speaking about heaven and he spoke more about his Kingdom than he did hell.

Jim

 

[perro_sarnoso]

A better question and one that will help define the title of this thread:

Are we so holy that we deserve to go to heaven? Or…is “deserve” truly the humble approach to the desire to be in heaven?

A man dies and goes to heaven and meets St. Peter at the pearly gates. The man start his way past St. Peter and St. Peter says,

-Whoa just a minute, where do you think you’re going? You need to meet the 100 point criteria.

The man is befuddled but decides not to argue with St. Peter. -What does the 100 point criteria mean?
-Certain acts bring with them a certain amount of points. Says Peter.
-Well, I was a deacon of the Catholic church
-1 point. Says Peter.
-I taught catechism and was the spiritual director of the Legion of Mary.
-1 point. Says Peter.

The man is deeply troubled at his low score in comparison with the important things he’s mentioned thus far.

I visited the sick every week and gave to the poor and gave my inheritance to the church.

-That makes 4 points. Says St. Peter in a very stoic manner.

Finally, the man in complete acceptance and a bit of sarcasm says, "well I guess the only way anybody is going to get into heaven is by the grace of God!!

-96 points…welcome home son.

 

[perro_sarnoso]

I know “all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God”, but does this really mean that we would all deserve to spend eternity in Hell, no matter what we do in this life? I know of several people who have rejected Christianity in part because they were told “You deserve Hell, and they only way to avoid it is to do what I say” which does not strike me as being very Christ like, and could easily be used by a member of the clergy who is abusing their position to manipulate those put under his authority. What do you think?

To believe in God and profess Jesus Christ as the Word Incarnate, one must believe completely and not selectively.

There is a line from an old 70’s song by Blood, Sweat and Tears…“I swear there ain’t no heaven but I pray there ain’t no hell…”

God did not spare the sin of the Angels and so they were cast into Hell…

We must have a life of prayer and a life of the spirit, nurtured by the Sacraments of Confession and Communion. Pray the Rosary everyday and be open to God’s grace.

 

[rcwitness]

A better question and one that will help define the title of this thread:

Are we so holy that we deserve to go to heaven? Or…is “deserve” truly the humble approach to the desire to be in heaven?

A man dies and goes to heaven and meets St. Peter at the pearly gates. The man start his way past St. Peter and St. Peter says,

-Whoa just a minute, where do you think you’re going? You need to meet the 100 point criteria.

The man is befuddled but decides not to argue with St. Peter. -What does the 100 point criteria mean?
-Certain acts bring with them a certain amount of points. Says Peter.
-Well, I was a deacon of the Catholic church
-1 point. Says Peter.
-I taught catechism and was the spiritual director of the Legion of Mary.
-1 point. Says Peter.

The man is deeply troubled at his low score in comparison with the important things he’s mentioned thus far.

I visited the sick every week and gave to the poor and gave my inheritance to the church.

-That makes 4 points. Says St. Peter in a very stoic manner.

Finally, the man in complete acceptance and a bit of sarcasm says, "well I guess the only way anybody is going to get into heaven is by the grace of God!!

-96 points…welcome home son.

Cute story, but not good teaching! We do not receive grace after all that we can do to receive everlasting life. Im not saying this is what you believe. But thats the impression of the story, and an accussation given to me from anti-Catholics. I try to reasure them we receive freely, and because of nothing we earned, God’s association with us and His life giving grace. We have a duty to accept and remain in this free grace. We then receive merit in our new life, wheather it is eternal punishment for abandoning the grace given, purging for the unrepented sins that do not lead to complete seperation from our Lord, and/or heavenly treasures for the participation through faith which the Lord has prepared for us out of His goodness.

I am not trying to be overly serious with your story, which I can take as a joke. But it has the elements of a wrong understanding that anti-Catholics pounce on and take as our true faith. I hope you understand where im coming from in fact, I think your good point is that the humble person does not think his works can get him into heaven.

Peace
Michael