Do we as Catholics worship Mary

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thecoach said:
Hmm, interesting question…though doesnt really matter since they are both God in two distinct persons. Still has nothing to do with Mary.
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Yes, same God, three distinct persons, and we know that through Christ all was created.
Do we agree on “From God the Father through Jesus Christ, God the Son.”?
 
cfrancis said:
Yes, same God, three distinct persons, and we know that through Christ all was created.
Do we agree on “From God the Father through Jesus Christ, God the Son.”?
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This, I believe, was a sticking point between the Eastern and Western churches. No, I think I tend toward from them both equally, it is their roles that differ.
 
thecoach said:
This, I believe, was a sticking point between the Eastern and Western churches. No, I think I tend toward from them both equally, it is their roles that differ.
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OK, this line of thought is drifting. There is no implication of superiority and/or subordination when we say “From God the Father through God the Son.”
Heb 1:2
in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

All that to say, do we agree all grace, goodness, blessings, and salvation come from Jesus Christ?
 
cfrancis said:
OK, this line of thought is drifting. There is no implication of superiority and/or subordination when we say “From God the Father through God the Son.”
Heb 1:2
in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

All that to say, do we agree all grace, goodness, blessings, and salvation come from Jesus Christ?
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It has nothing to do with superiority but rathher teology…but ok…for sake of discussion lets have it you way
 
thecoach said:
It has nothing to do with superiority but rathher teology…but ok…for sake of discussion lets have it you way
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Doesn’t have to be my way.

You and I believe all grace, goodness, blessings, and salvation come from God.

What, then, is Jesus’ role in all grace, goodness, blessings, and salvation?
 
cfrancis said:
Doesn’t have to be my way.

You and I believe all grace, goodness, blessings, and salvation come from God.

What, then, is Jesus’ role in all grace, goodness, blessings, and salvation?
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Can we cut to the chase and get to the point? Are you building this all up to just say that Mary is His mother, thus ipso facto, all grace comes through/from her? If so, save your time, because you would be in error and possibly heresy.
 
OK, then we can also agree that Jesus Christ came to us through Mary, right?
 
MH84 said:
Calliope and tiemry bring up interesting points. I quite simply say that in general Catholics know more about Mary than they do about the Blessed Trinity, especially the Holy Spirit and God the Father. I dare say the average Catholic hardly knows the basic understanding of the Trinity.

If people pray its normally the Rosary and the Chaplet of Divine Mercy. Besides through the Mass, the Blessed Trinity is not worshipped by Catholics as They should be. However, Ive even heard that many people used to pray the Rosary during the Mass!

I think there is too much emphasis on praying to Jesus and Mary, and not enough foucus on God (the Trinity) alone. Even the Eucharistic benediction includes honouring Mary and the St. Joseph.

I think that Mary and the saints should be freely venerated, but I wonder if there’s enough focus on God, like the Apostles and early disciples use to have.

Our prayer life is quite different to the Christianity of say 2000 years ago. Im not sure but I think the Muslims have prayed the same over the last 1500 or so years.
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Praying the rosary, we pray the Our Father! How can you say then that God the Father is left out?!?!?! We also say “Glory be to the Father, and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit” The Holy Spirit is not left out either. What the problem may be, though, I will state it in a prayer:
“Forgive us, o Lord, for we don’t know what we have been saying!”
 
Maybe it has been said earlier, but this would be worth repeating even so…
There is a difference between “veneration” and “adoration”.
The people often say: “I adore my children”, “I adore this house”, “I adore Montreal”, and I doubt they would “adore” them as God is supposed to be adored (Oops! … worshipped, rather!) Veneration would be like that, while worshipping is even much more… People can be venerated, but only God can be worshipped!
 
myredeemerlives said:
Why try and model Mary when we are supposed to be becoming Christlike as Christians?

I find it interesting that you’d rather be like His mother. Speaks volumes in terms of the argument of the thread I think.
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She’ll lead you right to HIM so that you can become more Christ-like.
 
thecoach said:
and THAT is exactly the problem. You see nothing bordering on equation with God in a statement like, "“In every miracle we must recognize the mediation of Mary, through whom, according to God’s will, every grace and blessing comes to us.” or "“For God has committed to Mary the treasury of all good things, in order that everyone may know that THROUGH HER are obtained every hope, every grace, and ALL SALVATION. For this is his will, that we obtain everything through Mary.” This second one borders on blasphemous. Where is Scripture is there anything even remotely like this?
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Ahem! Where is the blasphemy there? I don’t see it. Please explain: what is near blasphemous? how?
Moreover, if it’s God who “committed to Mary the treasury of all good things”, it means it’s His decision! Anything wrong with decisions made by God Himself ?
 
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