Do we focus too much on sexual purity and other things?

[fix]

Amazing, truely amazing. All the cruelty in the world, vulnerable people dying from hunger and denial of their rightful share of the worlds resources, folk in Oriental, Indian and African sweatshops working 18-hours a day for a $1 a day. In some South American countries, computer manufacturers do not pay staff while they are training. They get no sick pay medical care or holiday pay. They work for a poultry sum. The owners are multi-billionares, etc etc and all we worry about are 'sexual sins of the flesh!!!

So, one set of issues is more important than the other? I thought every immortal soul was important? Why can’t we be concerned with all immorality as it all affects the mystical Body of Christ?

I think our sense of morality has gone seriously off track.

It sure has. We now minimize objective mortal sin because we mistakenly think some grave sins simply are not important. Also, do you not think sexual immorality is a central cause of pain and economic hardship in this country? What about all the abortions or all the poor women abandoned with kids from men who treat sex as a commodity or toy?

 

[Creiddylad]

It sure has. We now minimize objective mortal sin because we mistakenly think some grave sins simply are not important. Also, do you not think sexual immorality is a central cause of pain and economic hardship in this country? What about all the abortions or all the poor women abandoned with kids from men who treat sex as a commodity or toy?

I can’t believe you just said that.This economic hardship and pain you speak of has absolutely nothing to do with sexual immorality - not a clue how you made such a ridiculous association. Open your eyes and look at the current state of things. Look at the amount of people who get exploited - I’m talking working class people. What rights do they have, what concessions do they get? The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer and that’s acceptable because that’s capitalism for you, that’s the “democratic way of life” What about the people living big lavish selfish lifestyles when there’s so much poverty in our society? And what about the people who get discriminated against and persecuted for their beliefs on a daily basis in a country where supposed freedom of belief and self-expression is tolerated? Surely you must have seen that. Whatever happened to “love thy neighbour” and equal opportunities and rights? These are only a few examples.

THAT’S pain, that’s hardship, and that’s where the true issues are. Compared to all that, sexual purity seems a little unimportant, wouldn’t ya agree?

 

[thistle]

I can’t believe you just said that.This economic hardship and pain you speak of has absolutely nothing to do with sexual immorality - not a clue how you made such a ridiculous association. Open your eyes and look at the current state of things. Look at the amount of people who get exploited - I’m talking working class people. What rights do they have, what concessions do they get? The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer and that’s acceptable because that’s capitalism for you, that’s the “democratic way of life” What about the people living big lavish selfish lifestyles when there’s so much poverty in our society? And what about the people who get discriminated against and persecuted for their beliefs on a daily basis in a country where supposed freedom of belief and self-expression is tolerated? Surely you must have seen that. Whatever happened to “love thy neighbour” and equal opportunities and rights? These are only a few examples.

THAT’S pain, that’s hardship, and that’s where the true issues are. Compared to all that, sexual purity seems a little unimportant, wouldn’t ya agree?

Stop trying to trivialise mortal sin. You sound like one of those liberation theologists which the Church is against.

 

[setter]

Amazing, truely amazing. …The owners are multi-billionares, etc etc and all we worry about are 'sexual sins of the flesh!!!

I think our sense of morality has gone seriously off track.

Any sin that can send one to hell for all eternity should worry any soul. I agree with you and the late JPII and his predecessor Pius XI that our sense of morality has seriously gone off track as individuals and society as a whole have lost the sense of sin.

1. It is inevitable therefore that in this situation there is an obscuring also of the sense of sin, which is closely connected with the moral conscience, the search for truth and the desire to make a responsible use of freedom. When the conscience is weakened the sense of God is also obscured, and as a result, with the loss of this decisive inner point of reference, the sense of sin is lost. This explains why my predecessor Pius XI, one day declared, in words that have almost become proverbial, that “the sin of the century is the loss of the sense of sin.”(100)

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_jp-ii_exh_02121984_reconciliatio-et-paenitentia_en.html

 

[fix]

I can’t believe you just said that.This economic hardship and pain you speak of has absolutely nothing to do with sexual immorality - not a clue how you made such a ridiculous association.

Really? So, when folks engage in promiscuous sex and children are born into an unstable and unmarried faux unions and the man takes off and the women is forced into poverty with her kids the origin of that situation has nothing to do with the misuse of sexual powers?

Open your eyes and look at the current state of things. Look at the amount of people who get exploited - I’m talking working class people. What rights do they have, what concessions do they get? The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer and that’s acceptable because that’s capitalism for you, that’s the “democratic way of life” What about the people living big lavish selfish lifestyles when there’s so much poverty in our society? And what about the people who get discriminated against and persecuted for their beliefs on a daily basis in a country where supposed freedom of belief and self-expression is tolerated? Surely you must have seen that. Whatever happened to “love thy neighbour” and equal opportunities and rights? These are only a few examples.

That is a strawman argument. You have substituted your position with mine and then proceed to tear it down. How about you state my position correctly before you attempt to refute it?

THAT’S pain, that’s hardship, and that’s where the true issues are. Compared to all that, sexual purity seems a little unimportant, wouldn’t ya agree?

No, I would not agree. All sin is evil. Any mortal sin rejects the entire moral law. I am against poverty and unjust discrimination and racism and sexism and formication and sodomy and lying and stealing and bearing false witness and slavery and idol worship and all other sins.

 

[contramundum7]

Amazing, truely amazing. All the cruelty in the world, vulnerable people dying from hunger and denial of their rightful share of the worlds resources, folk in Oriental, Indian and African sweatshops working 18-hours a day for a $1 a day. In some South American countries, computer manufacturers do not pay staff while they are training. They get no sick pay medical care or holiday pay. They work for a poultry sum. The owners are multi-billionares, etc etc and all we worry about are 'sexual sins of the flesh!!!

I think our sense of morality has gone seriously off track.

Well, since sexual sins r the ones that cause more poeple to go to Hell than any other, maybe a person focusing on overcoming their weaknesses in that area is on the right track… I pray you are on the right track… & God bless you in your work with the poor…

 

[blessedtoo]

No, I’m talking about getting judged, and saying God, I have tried my best to stay away from the deadly sins, and keeping my mind pure, and things that I do holy, etc…

Then He comes back with:
Well, FP, you have focused so much energy on staying pure, and following rules and such, and that is a good thing, but you really failed in the most central message of my love, and that is to love everyone as yourself. If all that energy you took in following rules and fighting temptation were put into helping your less fortunate brothers and sisters turn their lives around and understanding the depths of my love no matter what their dispair may be, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

God KNOWS what your struggles are. It’s not as if you, as an earnest follower trying desperately to stay pure, are going to surpirse or shock Our Lord when you are judged. He already knows the cross you are carrying and how much “energy” it required for you to overcome. Also, I think you are seriously overlooking the impact you have on others when you do in fact live a life of purity and sanctity. It may not be the poor that are directly influenced by the example you set, but what about your children, or your friends, or co-workers? Everything we do has an impact on others. Perhaps that is what God has intended for you.

 

[contramundum7]

I can’t believe you just said that.This economic hardship and pain you speak of has absolutely nothing to do with sexual immorality - not a clue how you made such a ridiculous association. Open your eyes and look at the current state of things. Look at the amount of people who get exploited - I’m talking working class people. What rights do they have, what concessions do they get? The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer and that’s acceptable because that’s capitalism for you, that’s the “democratic way of life” What about the people living big lavish selfish lifestyles when there’s so much poverty in our society? And what about the people who get discriminated against and persecuted for their beliefs on a daily basis in a country where supposed freedom of belief and self-expression is tolerated? Surely you must have seen that. Whatever happened to “love thy neighbour” and equal opportunities and rights? These are only a few examples.

THAT’S pain, that’s hardship, and that’s where the true issues are. Compared to all that, sexual purity seems a little unimportant, wouldn’t ya agree?

 

[contramundum7]

This is just my humble opinion. To answer in a word: YES.

I think that in the United States we have a tendency to think that sexual sins are among the worst. There is sort of a puritanical attitude that says, “Don’t talk about it. Keep it covered up. Sex is dirty.” I think a freer discussion about sexual issues would help, not hinder our spiritual walk. If healthy sexual relations were more freely spoken about, the topic would not have the sensationalism it does. Nor would unhealthy desires and actions have so much appeal. If we could have as easy a discussion on sexual matters as we do on helping the poor, we could all help ourselves when faced with temptation.

Jesus sums up the law with one word LOVE. Love involves doing, more than it involves **not **doing. A Christian should be known by how he/she shows love to others not just by what he /she doesn’t do. God showed His love to us by doing something. He gave His Son and showered His grace down on us as a free gift. That is the example of what love is.

Tu Amigo, Pablo

 

[contramundum7]

contramundum7:
i don’t understand you sayig this… How can you say that America sees sexual sins as the worst?? You turn on the TV or go to the movies, that’s all you see is SEX, sex & more sex…
Talk shows - same thing… Sex has been talked to death in this country… I particularly hate “how to” books…
Another thing that no one seems to have brought up in this forum is the fact that eveyrone has their own “place” in life, their own job or vocation. Not everyone, for instance, is called to work with the poor. There are so many good things that need to be done in the world… I feel we are all called to help those who are so poor they don’t have the necessities of life… All of us can send SOME amount of money to the 3rd world countries to help the starving… But as far as spending time, say, working in a soup kitchen, well, not everyone has the time or the “calling” to do that…that doesn’t mean those who don’t are not doing important things that God approves of. I asked God what he wanted from me years ago & you wouldn’t believe what answer i got. I am not going to say here because i don’t want to hear all the negative opinions i might get, the disagreements… In the end, none of us really knows what God wants us to do ( absolutely speaking), as far as a vocation goes… We can pray and ask & sometimes even think God is answering, telling us he wants us to do this or that, but in the end, we never really know 100%… the fact that we are ASKING God… and TRYING to do his will is what counts with God most. The only thing we KNOW He wants is for us to do what the Church (scripture) instructs…

 

[Mintaka]

This is one of the few places available to people to ask about sex-related sins. Often anything sex-related is dismissed by people as “normal” or “kinky and sick”, with very little in between.

However, it’s possible that there are enough sex-related posts here that they need a separate Theology of the Body board, or something like that.

 

[distracted]

No, I’m talking about getting judged, and saying God, I have tried my best to stay away from the deadly sins, and keeping my mind pure, and things that I do holy, etc…

Then He comes back with:
Well, FP, you have focused so much energy on staying pure, and following rules and such, and that is a good thing, but you really failed in the most central message of my love, and that is to love everyone as yourself. If all that energy you took in following rules and fighting temptation were put into helping your less fortunate brothers and sisters turn their lives around and understanding the depths of my love no matter what their dispair may be, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

I tend to fall into camp 1, vs camp 2. I try to do all the things right and to battle temptation 24/7 and live my moral life to what our Church teaches, but I end up so exhausted spiritually from doing that, that I don’t have the time or motivation to do part 2…

I hope my thoughts are clear…it’s just something I think about. I’m not trying to ‘get out’ of behaving morally; just trying to figure things out.

 

[distracted]

distracted:
i am not sure u should criticize yourself for falling into the first category… Everyone has their own walk with the Lord, their own “besetting sins” (a term i heard once in a Protestant “church”) & their own issues… God wants us to work on whatever it is that is causing us the most problems… Sometimes we don’t even have much of a clue as 2 what that is exactly, or what is bothering us… causing us to fall. For example, sometimes i fall into a “negative” place, emotionally, & don’t really know why… All i know is i need 2 pray 2 get beyond that feeling. Once i pray, i begin to understand (by way of the Holy Spirit) what is really bothering me, deep down inside (where things tend 2 get buried… & 2 stay unresolved)… Anyway, i guess what i am saying (among other things) is: it would be a boring world (& a world that didn’t WORK 2 well) if all of us were the same… (in every way)… God bless you.

 

[Jay2]

Yes.

 

[Mirdath]

Never in all my years and all my travels on the internet (and that covers a lot of some pretty ugly ground) have I seen a board so obsessed with masturbation. Where else can one go to see at least half a dozen threads per week started by a man over the age of 25 freaking out over their sinful, lustful thoughts? Or, for that matter, by their wives of several years suddenly discovering their husbands can’t handle only having sex a couple times a month? Oh, and of course women never ever masturbate and apparently rarely, if ever, enjoy sex – there’s a serious inequity here. But nobody can seem to stop talking about it.

So in a word, uh… yeah. Seriously, people. There’s more to life than sex and/or masturbation. It’s like cooking and eating and bathing – things people do, and hopefully do right, but there’s no call to frenzy over a sandwich unless you find a cockroach in it.

 

[fix]

Never in all my years and all my travels on the internet (and that covers a lot of some pretty ugly ground) have I seen a board so obsessed with masturbation. Where else can one go to see at least half a dozen threads per week started by a man over the age of 25 freaking out over their sinful, lustful thoughts? Or, for that matter, by their wives of several years suddenly discovering their husbands can’t handle only having sex a couple times a month? Oh, and of course women never ever masturbate and apparently rarely, if ever, enjoy sex – there’s a serious inequity here. But nobody can seem to stop talking about it.

So in a word, uh… yeah. Seriously, people. There’s more to life than sex and/or masturbation. It’s like cooking and eating and bathing – things people do, and hopefully do right, but there’s no call to frenzy over a sandwich unless you find a cockroach in it.

The search for truth is a deep longing in man. These questions, that are genuine, are part of that search. What disturbs me is that so many seem to miss the horror of sin. Atheism, relativism, and scientism have allowed man to assume he is a god.

In order to recognize illness I guess one first needs to study normal health.

 

[Sixtus]

Mirthdath wrote:

Never in all my years and all my travels on the internet (and that covers a lot of some pretty ugly ground) have I seen a board so obsessed with masturbation. Where else can one go to see at least half a dozen threads per week started by a man over the age of 25 freaking out over their sinful, lustful thoughts?

While I have criticised the amount of time we spend discussing sex when there are so many other issues on the agenda. I will be the first to admire my beloved sisters and brothers for so doing.

We all aspire to live the sort of life the the Lord called us to.

This moral code was further endorced by St Paul and St Peter. Being a man [and no doubt a woman], the sex drive is very powerful. It is easy to see how satan [small ‘s’ intended] uses this very beautiful gift from God, to turn it into an occasion for sin in order to draw ‘all men to himself’. These couragious men are trying to reject satan and live holy, chaste lives emulating our Master.

These issues are very real issues. They stand between us and perfection. Unbridled sex can also be seen as one of the root causes of much evil in the world today [rape, murder, child abuse, abortion, devaluing human life]. It is not only right and proper, but is our duty to deal with these issues, particularly how they impinge on us as individuals.

It is also entirely consistent with the nature of being ‘Catholic’: we are a family. Catholicism is not just a religion it is also a ‘way of life’ ‘family life’. We discuss problems with others who have overcome their problems in order to help us deal with our weaknesses.

Threads on masturbation belong here for as long as masturbation is problematic to people striving to be saints. The discussions belong here. This is the real world. At least we have the courage to strive for the highest ideal and the humility to deal with it when we fail

 

[Chancellare]

Never in all my years and all my travels on the internet (and that covers a lot of some pretty ugly ground) have I seen a board so obsessed with masturbation. Where else can one go to see at least half a dozen threads per week started by a man over the age of 25 freaking out over their sinful, lustful thoughts? Or, for that matter, by their wives of several years suddenly discovering their husbands can’t handle only having sex a couple times a month? Oh, and of course women never ever masturbate and apparently rarely, if ever, enjoy sex – there’s a serious inequity here. But nobody can seem to stop talking about it.

So in a word, uh… yeah. Seriously, people. There’s more to life than sex and/or masturbation. It’s like cooking and eating and bathing – things people do, and hopefully do right, but there’s no call to frenzy over a sandwich unless you find a cockroach in it.

I don’t think the ratio is that high. If anything, it only shows the prevalence of these issues about sexuality among the faithful (and the non) and what CC doctrine say about these things. This site is unique in the sense that it provides unimpeded exchange of ideas and what the Magisterium says about them. If not in this site, I don’t know where else this could be possible on a similar scale.

 

[AngelicDoctor]

ForwardProgress,

This is a valuable post. I can see where you are coming from. In some ways, it is easier to deal with our own sins and our own efforts to glorify God in our bodies, personal actions, family relations, etc. It is easier, in some ways, than glorifying God through serving Christ in the poor, etc. That takes more effort and more creativity some time. However, the point was made the two go hand in hand. If our own personal lives are marred in sin… how well will we be able to expend ourselves in lives of charity for the whole body of Christ.

Still, I do have to fault myself with being to focussed on my self and my own problems rather than remembering to be Christ to others. Good post.

 

[AngelicDoctor]

In addition, I would say that, from a purely psychological perspective, it is easier to identify and attempt to rectify sins of commission (aka deeds done that offend God) vs. sins of ommission (deeds to glorify God that we failed to do). Generally speaking, personal moral life (including the sins of the flesh, lying, etc.) usually fall into the category of sins of commission… failing to serve the poor into sins of ommission.