Do We Have to Sing Along During Mass?

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exoflare said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by triumphguy
St Augustine says that “To sing once is to pray twice”

How?
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Singing is a deeper gift of the self. It involves words, it involves melody, breathing, it involves a coming out of oneself, which the ordinary way of communicating doesn’t do. It involves an elevation of the mind body and spirit in a way that speaking does not. It is an attempt at a higher gift to God, “Quality” of the voice is irrelevant. Really , does anyone think God cares about the timber of our voices?

Singing also takes many of us out of our comfort zone, which can be a valuable thing in itself. If we are going to be honest, the real reason we are having a 12 page discussion on singing is that many people are not comfortable doing it and will come up with numerous rationalizations to avoid it. We are embarrassed, shy whatever.

The answer to the OP question would be no, it is not required. But that’s like asking yourself it you should throw your wife a card on her birthday, or give her your full attention, everything you have, out of love. The answer to the question goes beyond obligation into participation out of love.
 
Phemie said:
No. If there was no choir there were no hymns and if the choir was there they were the only ones who sang. There was one student who could sing the responses so if Thérèse was at daily Mass she sang the responses. Nobody else ever said a word.

There are still no hymnals in the pews in many of the parishes where I grew up, particularly the French parishes – the English ones are a bit better because English Canadians have had the various editions of the Catholic Book of Worship (the national hymnal) since 1972. There was nothing similiar available for French parishes until 2002 when ‘D’une même voix’ was published and many parishes have simply not availed of that hymnal because they’re happy with the status quo: choirs sing, people listen. I’m not saying that all parishes are that way, but they are in the majority where I grew up.

I know that if I go to Mass in my birth parish I can be treated to 3 different Mass settings in three weeks. You know how often a Mass setting has to be repeated before it becomes ingrained in people. If the choir switches every week, nobody ever gets familiar enough with a particular setting to join in. From the choir director’s attitude I’ve come to believe that that’s deliberate.
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In my diocese every parish is using the same music for the responses, and various parts of the mass until as a diocese the music ministers learn the new music to the new missal.

So whichever parish you go to the music to the parts of the mass is the same.

Also we all have the same song books and the same new mass book with hymns and parts of the mass.
 
triumphguy said:
In my diocese every parish is using the same music for the responses, and various parts of the mass until as a diocese the music ministers learn the new music to the new missal.

So whichever parish you go to the music to the parts of the mass is the same.

Also we all have the same song books and the same new mass book with hymns and parts of the mass.
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In my diocese there has been no discussion of which setting to use, only the liturgy person insisted that we only use the settings included in the Canadian ‘Celebrate in Song’ (too bad that what I had in my hand was better musically and free, it wasn’t Canadian).

Which setting did your diocese choose? Bet it wasn’t the chant settings that are included in the “Celebrate in Song”, eh?

Our parish is using the Angeles setting but, even though they started doing the Gloria as written, the choir now sings it as if it was a ‘through composition’ and omits the responsorial part. I can’t figure out why the CCCB opted only for responsorial Gloria settings.

I have to admit that I will sorely miss Somerville’s “(New) Good Shepherd Mass” setting. Wish he’d rewritten it for the new translation – as I understand it, his original “Good Shepherd Mass” text is so close to the new translation that it would have been really easy for him to do so. For decades that setting was the one you would encounter in English parishes across Canada – although without a hymnal in the pew you would have had no way of knowing that. It’s only in the last 12 years or so that I came to find that out since Mass settings were rarely pointed out even in parishes that had the CBW in the pew. You learned it by rote by hearing it over and over again.
 
Actually we do use CIS - setting 5.

It’s not the most “musical” but it’s fairly simple.

I’m hoping for some better music soon.

Somerville’s mass setting was good.

My parents were members of his parish in Toronto for a while. He’s a very devout priest. His sister Margaret Somerville is quite influential too in ethics and health care debates.
 
triumphguy said:
Actually we do use CIS - setting 5.

It’s not the most “musical” but it’s fairly simple.

I’m hoping for some better music soon.

Somerville’s mass setting was good.
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Wow, I’m impressed! Our choir director never even looked at that setting – she admitted that she didn’t know what ‘chants’ meant.

You’re in Bishop Henry’s diocese, aren’t you?

I’m familiar with Margaret Somerville and her work and was aware that she was Fr. Somerville’s sister.
 
Phemie said:
Wow, I’m impressed! Our choir director never even looked at that setting – she admitted that she didn’t know what ‘chants’ meant.

You’re in Bishop Henry’s diocese, aren’t you?

I’m familiar with Margaret Somerville and her work and was aware that she was Fr. Somerville’s sister.
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Apparently all the music directors went to the same workshop -so they had to learn it.

Yes, Bishop Henry.
“If one happens to be a Catholic, there cannot be a split between one’s internal kind of views and thoughts … and what one says publicly. One has a duty, whether he likes it or not, to preach the word of God. This is part of the very mission of the Church, which is not confined to guys like myself who wear this funny Roman collar…”
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Quite a combative Bishop! Not above calling the provincial government out if something opposes Catholicity.

Definitely a leader, but has a good sense of humour too.
 
liturgyluver said:
But surely people sang hymns at low mass? This was allowed from 1947 onwards !
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Yes, if memory serves me correctly, it was generally after the Leonine prayers. The priest would start the hymn and everyone followed suit in the same key. This was my experience in London and Chicago. The few songs that were sung, however, were learned mostly in the Catholic schools. And sometimes they were sung at communion as well. Hymnals weren’t that common in church.
 
superamazingman said:
  • It doesn’t really mean anything.
  • It’s tacky.
  • Is narcissistic.
  • It really has nothing to do with the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
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Really. The Beatitudes are meaningless, tacky, and narcissistic?
Gather us in - the rich and the haughty,
gather us in - the proud and the strong.
Give us a heart so meek and so lowly,
give us the courage to enter the song.

I could point to lots of other scripture passages with the other lyrics of the song, but if you care to, you can do the work.

It has nothing to do with the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass? I guess if you’re a congregation of one, you’re correct!!! No need to gather for that one!
This is a gathering hymn, not the consecration or the Agnus Dei.
 
Superam says
It doesn’t really mean anything.
It’s tacky.
Is narcissistic.
It really has nothing to do with the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
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The Psalms are about “us”
They have nothing to do with the sacrifice of the mass
They were written by a known and grave sinner, who by his own admission deserved to die

Yet we sing/chant them between the First and Second reading
 
I’m seriously shocked. Gather us In is being compared in quality to the PSALMS?!?!?
 
clem456 said:
I could point to lots of other scripture passages with the other lyrics of the song, but if you care to, you can do the work.

It has nothing to do with the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass? I guess if you’re a congregation of one, you’re correct!!! No need to gather for that one!
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I don’t know if it means much, but the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass predates the final codification of scripture. And it certainly predates most of the translations of same.
 
superamazingman said:
I’m seriously shocked. Gather us In is being compared in quality to the PSALMS?!?!?
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Some of the lyrics are taken directly from the beatitueds in Matthew 5 and Mary’s Magnificat in Luke 1.

The third verse and chorus are about the Eucharist.
Verse 3
Here we will take the wine and the water,
Here we will take the bread of new birth,
Here you shall call your sons and your daughters,
Call us anew to be salt for the earth.

Chorus 3
Give us to drink the wine of compassion,
Give us to eat the bread that is you;
Nourish us well and teach us to fashion,
lives that are holy and hearts that are true.*

The last two lines echo the liturgy of the Eucharist (nourish us well) and the final dismissal, “Go forth, glorifying God with your lives”.

No one is saying that the lyrics are equal to the inspired word of God. I happen to hate the tune with which it is usually sung. But the lyrics are by no means unrelated to scripture, nor can anyone say that they are some Protestant infiltration of Catholicism.

-Tim-
 
superamazingman said:
I’m seriously shocked. Gather us In is being compared in quality to the PSALMS?!?!?
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He responds to a point you make, and you take him to task.
Maybe the point is, that it’s not about comparisons.
Being shocked can be a good thing in the life of faith.
 
TimothyH said:
No one is saying that the lyrics are equal to the inspired word of God. I happen to hate the tune with which it is usually sung. But the lyrics are by no means unrelated to scripture, nor can anyone say that they are some Protestant infiltration of Catholicism.

-Tim-
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Our folk choir does this song occasionally. I also do not personally care for the musical setting, but our personal tastes are irrelevant, as you point out.
 
I’ve been thinking about this thread a lot today.

My job was tough today. Last week, our hospital cut around 100 positions to try to save money, and we lost one of our staff, so all of us are stepping up to do the work she used to do. It’s hard. I was hot, tired, thirsty, hungry, and I had to go to the bathroom, but couldn’t find a break time. My knee hurt awfully, as I was taken off of Celebrex last week after I had a severe allergic reaction (ER visit, IV with meds, stayed home from work a day to rest, etc.)

It was also rather lonely, as we were all too busy to chat back and forth. (We are also still rather sad over the loss of our staff person.)

But I tried to be cheerful and encouraging to others, and be grateful to God for all the good things about my job. Hey, it’s a job! And I have a paycheck coming in–there are many in the U.S. who can’t say that. And it’s inside, so no bugs or sunburns. And it’s a job that helps other people get well, so it’s fulfilling.

My point is, we become saints not through having smooth sailing and happy trails, but through suffering, pain, discouragement, loneliness, etc. It is when we are at our weakest that we are forced to rely totally on Jesus, and then He is able to make us more like Him.

Perhaps some of you who “suffer” through singing, or hate the hymns that are selected in your parish, would like to consider the possibility that maybe the Lord is trying to help you to give up your likes and pleasures, and instead, submit meekly to others in authority (e.g., the priest and his hired staff), and in so doing, learn to submit to Jesus Himself. Maybe the fact that the hymns are unpleasant to you could help you to become more like Christ–IF you will stop struggling against something that you really can’t change anyway, and rest in the Lord and allow HIM to be your music, your song, your hymn.

One suggestion that I have for those of you who hate the contemporary hymns like Gather Us In is to use the congregational singing time to meditate upon the words of the hymns that you hate. Often the composer/lyricist is one of the St. Louis Jesuits–think about the Jesuits, about Ignatius Loyola, and what they have accomplished and are accomplishing on this earth for the Church and for Christ.

Or perhaps the author is Marty Haugen, the Lutheran. Think about the Lutherans and what they believe, and why their beliefs are flawed. Pray for them, and for Mr. Haugen.

Or perhaps you don’t know the author–try to imagine what the author was thinking and experiencing when they wrote the hymn.

Try to think of Bible verses that the hymn refers to.

I hope these suggestions are helpful to some of you. I can’t imagine going through Mass in misery. I agree with one of the first priests I ever knew, back when I first became Catholic–he used to say, “I’m grateful for ANY music in the Mass!” What a sweet, reasonable attitude.
 
Thanks for the contributions everyone, on all sides of the discussion. This has been a very interesting discussion. Even in the last two pages there’s much that I’d like to acknowledge and comment on, but I think that I’ll have to call it a day.

I’ve learned a lot about liturgy, and also about people’s personal approaches to it.

Hallelujah, He is risen indeed!
 
triumphguy said:
The Psalms are about “us”
They have nothing to do with the sacrifice of the mass
They were written by a known and grave sinner, who by his own admission deserved to die

Yet we sing/chant them between the First and Second reading
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I said that I was done here, but as I was closing my tabs I just saw this again, and realised that it answers so well one of the arguments I often hear on a liturgical matter, namely “It’s all about us”. Thanks! 🙂

I read the psalm once a week as lector at daily Mass, and each time I recite I make a decision as to who I’m going to have in mind as the “Me” first person who is usually the subject of the psalm. (If it’s not “Me”, then it’s usually “Us”). Sometimes I pick myself, sometimes I pick the priest, and, most often, the congregation. Most of the psalms are “all about a Me” (or “Us”), and work best when read that way.
  • Thou hast given me joy, greater than they have with corn and new wine.
  • I hate them with a perfect hatred
  • I lie down to sleep, and peace comes at once
  • The work of our hands do thou prosper
  • I will fulfill my vows in the presence of those who worship you.
  • etc…
.*
 
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