Do we know for a fact we are saved

  • Thread starter Thread starter Bill_Pick
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
What about deadly sin? Can someone who is “saved” commit a deadly sin? If he does, and is not repentant, what are the consequences of deadly sin?
David who was a man after God’s own heart was a great sinner yet God still saved him. Our names were written in the book of life from the foundation of the world. Before we had done good or evil.

No matter what a person does it is God ultimately who saves. He will enable the person to be saved.

Every sin is eternally deadly. When we break one of the smallest commandments we are guilty of breaking them all.

We must live lives before the Lord and seek to do His will.
 
:confused:

So if we steal we commit murder too?

Please explain.
I’m not advocating any should commit any sin. But it is God through His Spirit who leads us to salvation. God is able to save us inspite of our sin. Just as He did for David.

Remember all sin is grave in the eyes of God.
 
David who was a man after God’s own heart was a great sinner yet God still saved him. Our names were written in the book of life from the foundation of the world. Before we had done good or evil.

No matter what a person does it is God ultimately who saves. He will enable the person to be saved.

Every sin is eternally deadly. When we break one of the smallest commandments we are guilty of breaking them all.

We must live lives before the Lord and seek to do His will.
You haven’t answered the question.
 
I’m not advocating any should commit any sin. But it is God through His Spirit who leads us to salvation. God is able to save us inspite of our sin. Just as He did for David.

Remember all sin is grave in the eyes of God.
Again, you haven’t answered the question.
 
Every sin is eternally deadly. When we break one of the smallest commandments we are guilty of breaking them all.
.
Please provide a verse in the Bible that confirms this.

According to John:
1 John 5:
16 If any one sees his brother committing what is not a deadly sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not deadly. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that.
17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not deadly.

You seem to directly contradict this verse.
 
He has not answer the question because he does not have a answer MK8;35,mt24;13,mt10;;22
The OSAS (every version of that belief) falls apart on examination, and yet they still believe. They are trusting in their ministers who teach them OSAS more than they trust what God teaches them in the Bible. And, of course, they reject Tradition, in contradiction of the Bible.

Why do they call their churches “a Bible church”, when it’s so obvious that some of their beliefs contradict the Bible?

IMO, based on what OSAS believers have said on this forum, OSAS is believed out of fear. They’re fearful to trust in God. They have to have the final answer today. God doesn’t give them an answer–He will pass judgement when they die–so they make themselves judges. They judge themselves saved. They say that they put their faith in God, yet they are too fearful to believe that God will judge them at their death. They are afraid that God will not be merciful, so they judge themselves. They judge that because they are in a state of grace at one moment in time, they are “saved”. It’s all about frear, not trust. They know what the Bible says, but insist that those things (deadly sin, for example) somehow don’t count. They ignore what makes them afraid and judge themselves saved.

Where in the Bible does it say that we are our own judges?! :eek:

They say that they give themselves totally to God, yet they can’t relinquish control. They insist that they are the judge of their own salvation. Only God can save or condemn. He doesn’t condemn before we die. We have to persevere to the end. It’s in the Bible, but they ignore those pesky parts and construct a system that is less fearful to them. Fear comes from mistrust. 😦
 
Wow, that was awesome, Kalt. 👍
"In 1 Cor. 6:9-10,Paul says, “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.”

Why would he warn them not to be deceived if there were not certain individuals who would come to them and try to deceive them by telling them the lie, the lie O so pleasing to our itching ears in these latter days, that we can never lose our salvation?
I’m telling you what Paul is telling you: Do not be deceived. Do not embrace that lie that has sent so many millions of souls straight to hell by telling them they can never fall.

I’m telling you: You had better get in a Church that will be honest with you about the reality of mortal sin. And you had better get in a Church that will tell you how to discern which sins are mortal and which are not. And most especially, you had better get in a Church that will tell you what to do once you have fallen and committed a mortal sin. The safety of your soul requires it."

completelybiblical.blogspot.com/2009/06/falling-from-gracemortal-and-venial.html
 
Again, you haven’t answered the question.
If your name is written in the book of life you will be saved. Does that answer your question. Rev 20:15 If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Phil 4:3 Yes, and I ask you, loyal yokefellow, help these women who have contended at my side in the cause of the gospel, along with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life

These people were assurred of eternal life.
 
Please provide a verse in the Bible that confirms this.

According to John:
1 John 5:
16 If any one sees his brother committing what is not a deadly sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not deadly. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that.
17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not deadly.

You seem to directly contradict this verse.
James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

Please tell me which sin you may commit that is not ultimately deadly or does not seperate you from Christ?
 
He has not answer the question because he does not have a answer MK8;35,mt24;13,mt10;;22
MK 8:35 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will save it.

Mt 24:13 but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Mt 10:22 All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Bill could you please tell me how you will endure to the end? Is it not the Holy Spirit dwelling in the believer that gives them the grace to endure? You can not endure in your flesh and be saved.
 
If your name is written in the book of life you will be saved. Does that answer your question. Rev 20:15 If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Phil 4:3 Yes, and I ask you, loyal yokefellow, help these women who have contended at my side in the cause of the gospel, along with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life

These people were assurred of eternal life.
How do you know that your name is in the book of life? If you do, can you prove it? Can you show us the book and your name in it?

Does God judge you at your death? Why does he?
 
MK 8:35 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will save it.

Mt 24:13 but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Mt 10:22 All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Bill could you please tell me how you will endure to the end? Is it not the Holy Spirit dwelling in the believer that gives them the grace to endure? You can not endure in your flesh and be saved.
We are saved by God, of course. That God is the one who saves (we can’t do it ourselves or declare it ourselves, because we don’t have that power ,and we are not our own judges) doesn’t mean that we can’t turn away from God.

And what of those who don’t stand firm to the end? Will they be saved? It’s clear that the decision is made at “the end”?
 
The OSAS (every version of that belief) falls apart on examination, and yet they still believe. They are trusting in their ministers who teach them OSAS more than they trust what God teaches them in the Bible. And, of course, they reject Tradition, in contradiction of the Bible.

Why do they call their churches “a Bible church”, when it’s so obvious that some of their beliefs contradict the Bible?

IMO, based on what OSAS believers have said on this forum, OSAS is believed out of fear. They’re fearful to trust in God. They have to have the final answer today. God doesn’t give them an answer–He will pass judgement when they die–so they make themselves judges. They judge themselves saved. They say that they put their faith in God, yet they are too fearful to believe that God will judge them at their death. They are afraid that God will not be merciful, so they judge themselves. They judge that because they are in a state of grace at one moment in time, they are “saved”. It’s all about frear, not trust. They know what the Bible says, but insist that those things (deadly sin, for example) somehow don’t count. They ignore what makes them afraid and judge themselves saved.

Where in the Bible does it say that we are our own judges?! :eek:

They say that they give themselves totally to God, yet they can’t relinquish control. They insist that they are the judge of their own salvation. Only God can save or condemn. He doesn’t condemn before we die. We have to persevere to the end. It’s in the Bible, but they ignore those pesky parts and construct a system that is less fearful to them. Fear comes from mistrust. 😦
A +
 
James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

Please tell me which sin you may commit that is not ultimately deadly or does not seperate you from Christ?
You need to take that verse and context and read the next verse:
11He who said, ‘You must not commit adultery’ said also, ‘You must not kill.’ Now if you commit murder, you need not commit adultery as well to become a breaker of the Law.

If you commit a mortal sin, then you are guilty of breaking God’s law. I don’t see how this verse proves that all sins are equal in God’s eyes. However, the 1 John 5:16-17 verse disproves this notion. How do you interpret that verse? Why are you contradicting the Scripture and stubbornly insisting that all sins are “eternally deathly” when the Bible clearly says this is not the case?
Say you steal steal 25 cents from somewhere. Is that sin DEADLY? Are we going to go to hell because we did that? I thought Christians, once saved, don’t go to hell, no matter how badly they sin.
 
The OSAS (every version of that belief) falls apart on examination, and yet they still believe. They are trusting in their ministers who teach them OSAS more than they trust what God teaches them in the Bible. And, of course, they reject Tradition, in contradiction of the Bible.

Why do they call their churches “a Bible church”, when it’s so obvious that some of their beliefs contradict the Bible?

IMO, based on what OSAS believers have said on this forum, OSAS is believed out of fear. They’re fearful to trust in God. They have to have the final answer today. God doesn’t give them an answer–He will pass judgement when they die–so they make themselves judges. They judge themselves saved. They say that they put their faith in God, yet they are too fearful to believe that God will judge them at their death. They are afraid that God will not be merciful, so they judge themselves. They judge that because they are in a state of grace at one moment in time, they are “saved”. It’s all about frear, not trust. They know what the Bible says, but insist that those things (deadly sin, for example) somehow don’t count. They ignore what makes them afraid and judge themselves saved.

Where in the Bible does it say that we are our own judges?! :eek:

They say that they give themselves totally to God, yet they can’t relinquish control. They insist that they are the judge of their own salvation. Only God can save or condemn. He doesn’t condemn before we die. We have to persevere to the end. It’s in the Bible, but they ignore those pesky parts and construct a system that is less fearful to them. Fear comes from mistrust. 😦
kalt,

You make very good points here. Having come from the Baptist Church, I know the passages of Scripture used to justify the OSAS doctrine.

Fear is truly an element on many levels. First, many are presented the “plan of salvation” in the context of a question: If you die tonight, do you know if you will go to heaven or hell?

In recent years, some evangelistic efforts steer away from the threat of hell, and point to the reward of heaven. Either way, it is a narcissistic approach to salvation. Accept Christ to avoid the horrors of Hell; or accept Christ to receive the reward of Heaven–not that we deserve any kind of reward, since there is nothing good or Holy or righteous within us that does not come from Christ.

When you are indoctrinated within this OSAS framework, you don’t realize the narcissism involved in this line of thinking. I think the OSAS doctrine must surely have been born through the unbearable fear of Hell. In our humanity, we want certainty. We want certainty so badly, we actually demand it of God. Of course, we have no right to demand any such thing from God.

Christ did atone for our sins; and by God’s grace we are reconciled to God through the atonement of Christ. Yet, salvation is not an “event,” which gives us a free pass to Heaven, regardless of the behavior that follows our acceptance of Christ as Messiah and Son of God.

Salvation is a journey with many twists and turns, as we are refined through Christ. Indeed, we would not be able to endure to the end without God’s grace. However, we are given free will to either accept that grace or reject that grace. We are given free will in our choices regarding sin, repentance, turning from sin, and keeping the commandments of Christ–which include loving God with all our heart, mind, and soul; and loving our neighbors as ourselves. Again, these things are accomplished through submission to Christ, and according to the measure of grace God bestows upon us.

Salvation is not contained in a few passages of Scripture carefully selected and grouped together to support one’s preconceived beliefs.

Salvation is revealed from Genesis forward. We must look to the Bible as a whole in order to even begin to understand the elements necessary for salvation. Still, we are limited in our human understanding, and fall into error by imposing finite limits on an infinite God.

I trust in God’s mercy and righteous judgment. I pray that I will have the strength to serve Him and endure to the end. I pray for God’s mercy, when I face Him on the day of judgment.
 
How do you know that your name is in the book of life? If you do, can you prove it? Can you show us the book and your name in it?

Does God judge you at your death? Why does he?
How did Paul know those people were saved?
 
Ok so we can both agree that ONLY “saved” people are written in God’s book of life.
If your name is written in the book of life you will be saved. Does that answer your question. Rev 20:15 If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Really? Then, please address Exodus 32:33. "The LORD replied to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me I will blot out of my book.” Uh-oh. Only saved people are in His book. But it looks like to me that your name can get blotted out of His book! Where is the Bible verse where God says that every single person in his book will be saved. There isn’t one. Clearly, through sin, you can lose salvation and get blotted out of the book of life.
 
You need to take that verse and context and read the next verse:
11He who said, ‘You must not commit adultery’ said also, ‘You must not kill.’ Now if you commit murder, you need not commit adultery as well to become a breaker of the Law.

If you commit a mortal sin, then you are guilty of breaking God’s law. I don’t see how this verse proves that all sins are equal in God’s eyes. However, the 1 John 5:16-17 verse disproves this notion. How do you interpret that verse? Why are you contradicting the Scripture and stubbornly insisting that all sins are “eternally deathly” when the Bible clearly says this is not the case?
Say you steal steal 25 cents from somewhere. Is that sin DEADLY?
Very true but He was not talking only of these two. These were examples of a broader point. If you look at a woman with lust you are guilty of adultery. I think you get the just of it.

Stealing is stealing it is the intent of the heart not the severity. 25 cents might as well be 25 million. When we sin we say we don’t care what God says. The basis for all sin is our rebellion against the sovereignty of God.
Are we going to go to hell because we did that? I thought Christians, once saved, don’t go to hell, no matter how badly they sin.
That’s the point of this thread does Christ save us in spite of our sin or he can’t save us because we do sin. All people sin every day that‘s a fact and that’s a problem. The catholic point is the latter. That leaves you stressing out because you never really know if you are good enough, not that Christ has promised those who believe that He is the author and finisher of our faith. Bible Christians believe the former.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top