Do we know for a fact we are saved

[jericho777]

Ok so we can both agree that ONLY “saved” people are written in God’s book of life.

Really? Then, please address Exodus 32:33. "The LORD replied to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me I will blot out of my book.” Uh-oh. Only saved people are in His book. But it looks like to me that your name can get blotted out of His book! Where is the Bible verse where God says that every single person in his book will be saved. There isn’t one. Clearly, through sin, you can lose salvation and get blotted out of the book of life.

You have miss quoted. It was Moses who asked God to blot his name out if He would not forgive the sins of the people. Ex 32:33 But now, please forgive their sin—but if not, then blot me out of the book you have written.”

Rev 17:8 ……The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.

Your name is written from the foundation of the earth. You’re predestined.

Phil 4:3 Yes, and I ask you, loyal yokefellow, help these women who have contended at my side in the cause of the gospel, along with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.

How did Paul know in the first place these peoples names were written in there?

 

[Catholicgirlie]

Very true but He was not talking only of these two. These were examples of a broader point. If you look at a woman with lust you are guilty of adultery. I think you get the just of it.

Stealing is stealing it is the intent of the heart not the severity. 25 cents might as well be 25 million. When we sin we say we don’t care what God says. The basis for all sin is our rebellion against the sovereignty of God.

That’s the point of this thread does Christ save us in spite of our sin or he can’t save us because we do sin. All people sin every day that‘s a fact and that’s a problem. The catholic point is the latter. That leaves you stressing out because you never really know if you are good enough, not that Christ has promised those who believe that He is the author and finisher of our faith. Bible Christians believe the former.

“These two” What “two”? Sorry but I don’t quite know what you are referring too when you say “these two” And again, how do you interpret 1 John 5:16-17? When we sin we deny God. Yes. But like John says, there are two different types of sin, deadly and non-deadly. Deadly sin completely cuts us off from God. Non-deadly does not. Therefore, all sin is not eternally deadly. I am still not sure where you are getting this…is there a verse in the Bible that says this? That says that God will damn us for the slightest offense?

"That leaves you stressing out because you never really know if you are good enough, not that Christ has promised those who believe that He is the author and finisher of our faith. " haha we stress out? I wouldn’t say that. We know that through mortal sin we can lose our salvation. And this is amply supported by the Bible, whereas OSAS isn’t.

 

[Catholicgirlie]

You have miss quoted. It was Moses who asked God to blot his name out if He would not forgive the sins of the people. Ex 32:33 But now, please forgive their sin—but if not, then blot me out of the book you have written.”

Rev 17:8 ……The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.

Your name is written from the foundation of the earth. You’re predestined.

Phil 4:3 Yes, and I ask you, loyal yokefellow, help these women who have contended at my side in the cause of the gospel, along with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.

How did Paul know in the first place these peoples names were written in there?

Um, I would be very interested in what version of the Bible you use? NIV is where I got my verse…

I don’t see how the Rev. 17:8 passage is relevant…Do you have proof that you’re in the book of life? How so? Did God show it to you? Where in the Bible does it say that as long as you accept Jesus as your personal Savior, you are GUARANTEED salvation no matter what you do.

As long as you do what the Bible instructs, (faith and good works, perseverance, etc) you can have a relative assurance (not 100 percent certainty mind you) that you are on your way to Heaven. That is how Paul knew that the women were in the book of life. He knew the women and knew they were of good quality, if you will. However, NO WHERE does it say that your names can not be blotted out and you can lose your salvation. Quite the contrary actually (Exodus verse and many others) Throughout this thread there has been verse after verse supporting this, and I can give them again if you need them.

 

[jericho777]

“These two” What “two”? Sorry but I don’t quite know what you are referring too when you say “these two” And again, how do you interpret 1 John 5:16-17? When we sin we deny God. Yes. But like John says, there are two different types of sin, deadly and non-deadly. Deadly sin completely cuts us off from God. Non-deadly does not. Therefore, all sin is not eternally deadly. I am still not sure where you are getting this…is there a verse in the Bible that says this? That says that God will damn us for the slightest offense?

"That leaves you stressing out because you never really know if you are good enough, not that Christ has promised those who believe that He is the author and finisher of our faith. " haha we stress out? I wouldn’t say that. We know that through mortal sin we can lose our salvation. And this is amply supported by the Bible, whereas OSAS isn’t.

This is your quote I was referring to. 11He who said, ‘You must not commit adultery’ said also, ‘You must not kill.’ Now if you commit murder, you need not commit adultery as well to become a breaker of the Law.

That is my point we are constantly sinners. You only have to look at Christ on the cross to see first hand what sin does. Stealing is stealing it is the intent of the heart not the severity of the sin. 25 cents might as well be 25 million. When we sin we say we don’t care what God says. The basis for all sin is our rebellion against the sovereignty of God.

We are damned for the slightest sin. Tell me what sin I can commit and not have to worry about going to hell?

 

[jericho777]

Um, I would be very interested in what version of the Bible you use? NIV is where I got my verse......

I have access to 17 different versions. I was quoting the NIV. How ever I was quoting v32 and stand corrected.

I don't see how the Rev. 17:8 passage is relevant...Do you have proof that you're in the book of life? How so? Did God show it to you? Where in the Bible does it say that as long as you accept Jesus as your personal Savior, you are GUARANTEED salvation no matter what you do.

Rev 17:8 shows your name is written from the foundation of the world. You know before you were even born. Phil 4:3 shows Paul knew their names were in the book of life. How did he know they wouldn’t blotted out ?

As long as you do what the Bible instructs, (faith and good works, perseverance, etc) you can have a relative assurance (not 100 percent certainty mind you) that you are on your way to Heaven. That is how Paul knew that the women were in the book of life. He knew the women and knew they were of good quality, if you will. However, NO WHERE does it say that your names can not be blotted out and you can lose your salvation. Quite the contrary actually (Exodus verse and many others) Throughout this thread there has been verse after verse supporting this, and I can give them again if you need them.

Do you find comfort that you are a pretty good person? It is God who gives the grace to be saved.

 

[Catholicgirlie]

This is your quote I was referring to. 11He who said, ‘You must not commit adultery’ said also, ‘You must not kill.’ Now if you commit murder, you need not commit adultery as well to become a breaker of the Law.

That is my point we are constantly sinners. You only have to look at Christ on the cross to see first hand what sin does. Stealing is stealing it is the intent of the heart not the severity of the sin. 25 cents might as well be 25 million. When we sin we say we don’t care what God says. The basis for all sin is our rebellion against the sovereignty of God.

We are damned for the slightest sin. Tell me what sin I can commit and not have to worry about going to hell?

We are damned for the slightest sin? And again, where is that in the Bible? If you steal 25 cents, you will not go to hell, as that is only a venial sin. Please tell me how you interpret 1 John 5:16-17. I mean, it’s right there! “if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly.” So clearly, we are not damned for non-deadly sins (unless you interpret God’s life with being damned…which…uhh) Thus, the NON-deadly name. Again, if you can find a verse in the Bible that disproves this, certainly let me now. We are only sentenced to hell for mortal sins. All right there in John

 

[Catholicgirlie]

I have access to 17 different versions. I was quoting the NIV. How ever I was quoting v32 and stand corrected.

Rev 17:8 shows your name is written from the foundation of the world. You know before you were even born. Phil 4:3 shows Paul knew their names were in the book of life. How did he know they wouldn’t blotted out ?

Do you find comfort that you are a pretty good person? It is God who gives the grace to be saved.

How fascinating. I got the verse from here: biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%2032:33&version=NIV
where did you get yours?

Even if my name was written in the book of life from the very beginning, where does it say that it will not be blotted out no matter what I do? Nowhere. Quite the opposite really as proven by Exodus 32:33. Paul does not know that they will be blotted out. He can’t tell the future. He is not their judge. God is. God is your judge as well. You aren’t.

Yes, God gives the grace to be saved. But shown through NUMEROUS verses throughout the Bible, which I will remind you of if need be, we can lose this grace!! Please give me a verse that says we will/can never lose God’s grace.

 

[kalt]

How did Paul know those people were saved?

Avoidance again.

 

[kalt]

Thank you for the inside scoop, Anna Scott.

 

[jericho777]

We are damned for the slightest sin? And again, where is that in the Bible? If you steal 25 cents, you will not go to hell, as that is only a venial sin. Please tell me how you interpret 1 John 5:16-17. I mean, it’s right there! “if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly.” So clearly, we are not damned for non-deadly sins (unless you interpret God’s life with being damned…which…uhh) Thus, the NON-deadly name. Again, if you can find a verse in the Bible that disproves this, certainly let me now. We are only sentenced to hell for mortal sins. All right there in John

Is there a dirrerence in stealing 25 cents vs. 25 million or is the underlying fact that they are both sin? Remember Jesus said if you look at a woman with lust you are guilty of adultury.

Would you please share with me some sins that one may commit that don’t lead to death?

It seens pretty harsh that God would make all men die for Adam just eating some fruit?

 

[jericho777]

How fascinating. I got the verse from here: biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%2032:33&version=NIV
where did you get yours?

Even if my name was written in the book of life from the very beginning, where does it say that it will not be blotted out no matter what I do? Nowhere. Quite the opposite really as proven by Exodus 32:33. Paul does not know that they will be blotted out. He can’t tell the future. He is not their judge. God is. God is your judge as well. You aren’t.

Yes, God gives the grace to be saved. But shown through NUMEROUS verses throughout the Bible, which I will remind you of if need be, we can lose this grace!! Please give me a verse that says we will/can never lose God’s grace.

God predestines all people Rom 9:11 He chose Jacob before he was even born and hated Esau berfore he was even born. V17 God hardened Pharaoh’s heart that He might show the world His power amd proclaim His name.

V 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

 

[jericho777]

Avoidance again.

Serious question how did Paul even know they were saved in the first place? What confidence did he have in their salvation to make that claim? Was he presumptious to say such a thing?

 

[Carlan]

Hi Bill,

Romans 10:10 for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Rom 1:6 I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

1 Thes 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Hello Jericho and friends, There is nothing wrong in taking comfort in Scripture verses out of context, however presumption can be a very slippery slope. The process in not over till it’s over. *My hope *is in the resurrection of our Savior Jesus Christ.Peace, Carlan

 

[jericho777]

Hello Jericho and friends, There is nothing wrong in taking comfort in Scripture verses out of context, however presumption can be a very slippery slope. The process in not over till it’s over. *My hope *is in the resurrection of our Savior Jesus Christ.Peace, Carlan

Does God predestine all people Jacob, Esau and Pharaoh as in Rom 9? Are you saying because you have hope in the ressurection you have eternal life?

 

[Carlan]

Does God predestine all people Jacob, Esau and Pharaoh as in Rom 9? Are you saying because you have hope in the ressurection you have eternal life?

No Jericho, I am saying that because, Jesus died on the cross for my Sins and was resureccted, I hope to have eternal life with him, the Trinity and all the Saints and Angels, in heaven eternally.:thumbsupeace Carlan

 

[jericho777]

No Jericho, I am saying that because, Jesus died on the cross for my Sins and was resureccted, I hope to have eternal life with him, the Trinity and all the Saints and Angels, in heaven eternally.:thumbsupeace Carlan

So you have assurance in all that Christ has done for you?

 

[Catholicgirlie]

Is there a dirrerence in stealing 25 cents vs. 25 million or is the underlying fact that they are both sin? Remember Jesus said if you look at a woman with lust you are guilty of adultury.

Would you please share with me some sins that one may commit that don’t lead to death?

It seens pretty harsh that God would make all men die for Adam just eating some fruit?

Stealing is a sin no matter what you steal. But God is not going to punish you with the same severity if you stole 25 cents rather than 25 million. He is all-just and will punish you accordingly.

I assume by “death” you mean spiritual death? As I said above, stealing 25 cents isn’t going to send you to hell. Neither is slapping a sibling or uttering one curse word. Things like this. You cannot look me straight in the eye and tell me that for these small offenses, we are going to hell. If you can do this, then please find me a verse in the Bible that says this.

You continue to remain silent on the 1 John 5:16-17 verse. Please, I would like an answer.

God does punish us on account of the sin of Adam. So I take it you don’t believe in original sin? Straight out of the Baltimore Catechism: “Is God unjust in punishing us on account of the sin of Adam?”: No, God is not unjust in punishing us on account of the sin of Adam, because original sin does not take away from us anything to which we have a strict right as human beings, but only the free gifts which God in His goodness would have bestowed on us if Adam had not sinned." So are you saying God is not being just?

 

[Catholicgirlie]

God predestines all people Rom 9:11 He chose Jacob before he was even born and hated Esau berfore he was even born. V17 God hardened Pharaoh’s heart that He might show the world His power amd proclaim His name.

V 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

And how do these verses prove that we can never lose God’s grace?

 

[Carlan]

So you have assurance in all that Christ has done for you?

Yes I believe in all that Christ has done for me,
I believe, because I believe and accept him I am given the sanctifying grace to grow in the holiness our Father in heaven requires of us. This growth in becoming a new person is a life long process of growing into the likeness of Jesus. If we persevere in that growth to the end our hope will be realized, if along the way we fall into unrepentant sin , turn away from God we suffer the consequence. We have a merciful Father, he is there to restore us in his love if in our sin we turn back to him with sorrow, Remember, the younger son, the sorrowful one?

You use the word ‘assurance’, it can mean much…being sure and safe,confident of mind, easy freedom from doubt or uncertainty, or, excessive self confidence, brashness, or presumption ,sooooooooooo:shrug:Lets pray for the grace to keep what he commands of us and persevere to the end. God’s peace and grace to youCarlan

 

[kalt]

Serious question how did Paul even know they were saved in the first place? What confidence did he have in their salvation to make that claim? Was he presumptious to say such a thing?

I’ll ask one more time, and then we will call the debate over since you cannot defend your point.

Do you know that **your **name is in the book. If you do, how do you know. If you know, then we should be able to see the evidence. Please provide us the link to the book where your name is written.