Do we know we are getting into heaven?

[BrunoMaria]

“Do we know we are getting into heaven?”​

In several forums such as here:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=7575136&posted=1#post7575136
and also in private talks, and even on my weekly regular-table, I was asked:

Do you actually think you are getting into heaven?

I always answer with a firm YES – because I am absolutely convinced of this, and that’s not just my mere hope, but it’s stated in the Holy Bible! The glorious thing is; – this doesn’t just go for me, but for all of us – every Christian on earth!

Now; how do we know this? And why isn’t this just a mere hope?

Simply because - when a friend tells us something, then we don’t just hope that it’s true, but we KNOW it’s true what he said. And how much more than a friend is Jesus Christ, who told us in John 11,25: He who believes in Me, though he die, yet shall he live!
So; it’s not the question if we get into heaven, but

• To believe or not to believe -
  That is the question!
  When we do, we are saved. And that’s all there is to it - because Jesus said so.

Now; to believe is no guarantee not to sin. Hence; to many that will mean purgatory or Limbo (which the same, as hell is neither of the “two”) will be set before heaven to many of us – instead of entering heaven for eternity in the first place.

Some seem to think as stated in the mentioned thread; that purgatory always is where we all have to go before getting into heaven. That’s of course not so! Obviously Jesus forgave the good thug on the cross his sins, and the dying Jesus said to him: “Yet today you will be together with Me at my father’s”!
Jesus did not say; ok, I’ll send you to limbo for a while, but CU in heaven later then.
This word of Jesus is of great joy for all of us, as we from here on know, that there is no “R.I.P.” and “sleeping” until doomsday, but we’ll see God right after we die. All will, for all will be judged immediately after death. R.I.P (rest in peace) means, that we wish that this person who died, now is without any worries and so “rests” in the peace of God in His kingdom. Though we will not at all actually sleep, but we’ll be as awake as we never had been before in our lifetime, with much more awareness and perception and capabilities then even before on earth!

But what do we have the glorious institution of the Roman Catholic Catechism for, which summarizes for us in simple language all of our Church’s teaching. And about the question of “WHEN” – immediately or not before doomsday - the RCC tells us under number 1023 - 1051 as well as several New Testament texts do, that there is IMMEDIATE judgement before Christ right after our death and hereafter we IMMEDIATELY enter either Limbo, Heaven or Hell. Never Limbo in any case, - but EITHER one of the three.
Simply trust in God and live the joy of belief Jesus Christ gave us!

Yours
Bruno

 

[Waiting]

If you die in the grace of God, you will go to heaven. Can any of us know, without a doubt, know what our final disposition will be? Not everyone goes to purgatory. If you’re fortunate enough to have received the last rites, and die soon after, your soul should go straight to heaven. However, you speak of limbo. It’s unlikely that there is such a place, or state of being, now. Before Christ died, no one could enter heaven. Therefore, souls that were ready for heaven before Christ opened the gates, could not enter. We say that they were in a state of limbo. There is no longer a need for limbo, since heaven is now open to receive those who are prepared.

 

[Carlan]

If you die in the grace of God, you will go to heaven. Can any of us know, without a doubt, know what our final disposition will be? Not everyone goes to purgatory. If you’re fortunate enough to have received the last rites, and die soon after, your soul should go straight to heaven. However, you speak of limbo. It’s unlikely that there is such a place, or state of being, now. Before Christ died, no one could enter heaven. Therefore, souls that were ready for heaven before Christ opened the gates, could not enter. We say that they were in a state of limbo. There is no longer a need for limbo, since heaven is now open to receive those who are prepared.

Yea! But the thing is. we ain’t gonna know for sure until we get to those pearly gates. That’s what our hope is all about!
Peace, Carlan

 

[hazcompat]

2 Peter 1:10 Instead of this, brothers, never allow your choice or calling to waver; then there will be no danger of your stumbling,11 for in this way you will be given the generous gift of entry to the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

peace

 

[buffalo]

No. And most of us will undergo purgation. It is certain that if you are in purgatory you will be in heaven in the future.

 

[BrunoMaria]

exactly as you cited 2Peter 1,10:
-then there will be no danger of your stumbling-
which in other languages it’s translated;

• then you will never stumble -

So; when then we never stumble, we know, that we will be in heaven. YES WE KNOW and so might be full of joy!

One member however wrote:
No. And most of us will undergo purgation. It is certain that if you are in purgatory you will be in heaven in the future.

Why the harsh “NO” - when you write “most of us”? This doesn’t exclude, that many will not ever undergo purgatory, but enter heaven immediately.

The question arose:
Can any of us know, without a doubt, know what our final disposition will be?
No, of course not. We can not. But that’s not the point. The point here is:
1. we do know, that we are getting into heaven, when we truly believe in God
2. we also know, that we get to Jesus judgment immediately after death
3. we know of Holy Scriptures, that there are 3 options according to our way of life
Heaven - Hell - Purgatory. First two of the three are eternal. Purgatory is “transitory” tough we don’t know anything about the duration of this “transit” (purification).

Now - what on earth “ain’t we gonna know for sure until we get to those pearly gates”
as one member of the forum interjects? We do know all basics! Jesus told us.

Yours
Bruno

 

[Glorthac]

“Do we know we are getting into heaven?”​

In several forums such as here:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=7575136&posted=1#post7575136
and also in private talks, and even on my weekly regular-table, I was asked:

Do you actually think you are getting into heaven?

I always answer with a firm YES – because I am absolutely convinced of this, and that’s not just my mere hope, but it’s stated in the Holy Bible! The glorious thing is; – this doesn’t just go for me, but for all of us – every Christian on earth!

Now; how do we know this? And why isn’t this just a mere hope?

Simply because - when a friend tells us something, then we don’t just hope that it’s true, but we KNOW it’s true what he said. And how much more than a friend is Jesus Christ, who told us in John 11,25: He who believes in Me, though he die, yet shall he live!
So; it’s not the question if we get into heaven, but

• To believe or not to believe -
  That is the question!
  When we do, we are saved. And that’s all there is to it - because Jesus said so.

Be careful not to exalt your understanding of the Scriptures above the understanding of the thousands of other loyal Catholics before you.

John 3:5 says:
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

You accept John 11:25, you accept John 3:5 right? John 11:25 is to be read alongside the rest of Scripture. Combine John 11:25 and John 3:5, and to be saved you must believe in Christ, and be baptized.

Or Matthew 18:34-35:
And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Combine John 11:25, John 3:5, and Matthew 18:34-35, and you must believe in Christ, be baptized, and forgive your brothers in order to be saved, not believe alone.

If you keep on looking at the whole of Scripture, the way the Catholic Church understands it, and you’ll see that if a Christian dies with serious (mortal) sins left unabsolved by Christ through a priest, he does not enter heaven.

Now; to believe is no guarantee not to sin. Hence; to many that will mean purgatory or Limbo (which the same, as hell is neither of the “two”) will be set before heaven to many of us – instead of entering heaven for eternity in the first place.

You misunderstand Purgatory and Limbo, they’re different. Limbo is the first level of Hell, where there is no suffering apart from the absense of God.

Purgatory is not a part of Hell. It is a place where some Christians go if they haven’t done penance for their sins. Of course, not all Christians need to go to Purgatory. Many go straight to Heaven.

Some seem to think as stated in the mentioned thread; that purgatory always is where we all have to go before getting into heaven. That’s of course not so! Obviously Jesus forgave the good thug on the cross his sins, and the dying Jesus said to him: “Yet today you will be together with Me at my father’s”!
Jesus did not say; ok, I’ll send you to limbo for a while, but CU in heaven later then.
This word of Jesus is of great joy for all of us, as we from here on know, that there is no “R.I.P.” and “sleeping” until doomsday, but we’ll see God right after we die. All will, for all will be judged immediately after death. R.I.P (rest in peace) means, that we wish that this person who died, now is without any worries and so “rests” in the peace of God in His kingdom. Though we will not at all actually sleep, but we’ll be as awake as we never had been before in our lifetime, with much more awareness and perception and capabilities then even before on earth!

But what do we have the glorious institution of the Roman Catholic Catechism for, which summarizes for us in simple language all of our Church’s teaching. And about the question of “WHEN” – immediately or not before doomsday - the RCC tells us under number 1023 - 1051 as well as several New Testament texts do, that there is IMMEDIATE judgement before Christ right after our death

Amen to that! The man on the cross is forgiven by baptism of desire, which washes away his sins and the penance.

Remember, the doctrine of faith alone is not so. If it were so, why would the Scriptures say “work out your salvation with fear and trembling”? If faith were all that was necessary, why fear?

We fear, yet we hope.

 

[Carlan]

exactly as you cited 2Peter 1,10:
-then there will be no danger of your stumbling-
which in other languages it’s translated;

• then you will never stumble -

So; when then we never stumble, we know, that we will be in heaven. YES WE KNOW and so might be full of joy!

One member however wrote:
No. And most of us will undergo purgation. It is certain that if you are in purgatory you will be in heaven in the future.

Why the harsh “NO” - when you write “most of us”? This doesn’t exclude, that many will not ever undergo purgatory, but enter heaven immediately.

The question arose:
Can any of us know, without a doubt, know what our final disposition will be?
No, of course not. We can not. But that’s not the point. The point here is:
1. we do know, that we are getting into heaven, when we truly believe in God
2. we also know, that we get to Jesus judgment immediately after death
3. we know of Holy Scriptures, that there are 3 options according to our way of life
Heaven - Hell - Purgatory. First two of the three are eternal. Purgatory is “transitory” tough we don’t know anything about the duration of this “transit” (purification).

Now - what on earth “ain’t we gonna know for sure until we get to those pearly gates”
as one member of the forum interjects? We do know all basics! Jesus told us.

Yours
Bruno

Bruno, presumption can be a very dangerous road to travel, the Church teaches that we are saved yes, but we are also being saved, and so we, therefore, HOPE to be saved. We live our life in Christ with the help of the Holy Spirit’s gift of sanctifying grace through the Sacraments, Yes! All the time praying for the marvelous gift of grace in perseverance,Peace, Carlan

 

[po18guy]

Yea! But the thing is. we ain’t gonna know for sure until we get to those pearly gates. That’s what our hope is all about!
Peace, Carlan

Romans 8:24 Saint Paul says “for we are saved by hope…”

 

[BrunoMaria]

The question arose after my OP:

Can any of us know, without a doubt, know what our final disposition will be?

Yes we can, because we have Jesus’ promise! When I answer firmly YES I WILL GET INTO HEAVEN! I certainly know there might be Purgatory first, but this doesn’t mean it’s wrong what I said.

We do not have to differ between Purgatory and Limbo, as we are now after Jesus Christ’s resurrection and there’s but one of the two now. In great art-works, the paintings of that place where Christ went to rescue many often are named either, but none is mentioned in the Bible. So, let me say Purgalimbotory it doesn’t matter - let’s simply stick to the Church’s teaching in RCC under number 1023 - 1051. In the Credo however, we believe Christ went to hell rescuing His people. But that’s not the topic here anyhow - theme is “Do we know we are getting into heaven?”

Again and again I hear in many forums as well as in talks as here replied:

Can any of us know, without a doubt, know what our final disposition will be?

Of course we can! It’s only then that we can not - if we do not believe Jesus Christ!
Yes, we do know for sure, that we get into heaven, when we lived in God’s word and believed in God. This does not touch the question of purgatory. Why gaze at purgatory, when knowing we finally are in heaven? Where then would our joy in belief be? Jesus so often said REJOICE. I do! Don’t you?

If we would say “NO, WE DO NOT KNOW WHETHER OR NOT WE GET INTO HEAVEN”; then we’d deny Jesus’ Promise. And again: This does not touch the possibility to undergo purgation before we get into heaven.
Totally incomprehensible to me, when someone mentioned John 3,5 as counter-argument, for John 3,5 is another pro “know we are getting into heaven”, as Jesus here says:

“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God”<
But we are! So, where is the dissent?
All of the New Testament tells us, that we are getting into heaven - when we live in God’s word. How and why on earth would any Christian doubt this??? I wouldn’t even dare to say a single thing, that’s not according to our Church’s teaching.
All the counter arguments who prophesy doom and destruction instead of living in the Glory of God in Heaven , add: “if a Christian dies with serious (mortal) sins left unabsolved by Christ through a priest, he does not enter heaven”.
Didn’t I mention time after time, that he who knows to be getting into heaven, of course lives in God and did as Jesus told us? I did! Don’t we do so to the best of our ability? So: Why still not KNOWING if we get into heaven? How on earth could we even live in the JOY OF BELIEF when we simply keep hoping in despair?
To live in Jesus’ word means to KNOW to be getting into heaven, and that’s joy pure!

Do we say to Jesus Christ, we couldn’t life in the joy you recommended, as we

“worked out your salvation with fear and trembling”< ?

I never read such word anywhere in the Bible. It might be valid to doubters, but never to him who lives in God. (God’s word). On the contrary, the word joy and rejoice are the most used and recommendations Jesus gave us. What fear??? I do not fear but look forward to meet Jesus Christ. How could we love God if we tremble with fear of Him?!
The word “FEAR OF GOD” (in German one word “Gottesfurcht”) is not FEAR of God, but our justified fear to loose God’s love by sinning. We fear to sin and if we did after all; we hope not having lost some or all of God’s love.
But if we live in God’s word of LOVE TO GOD AND LOVE TO OUR NEXT we do neither have to fear anything, and never not just hope to get into heaven, but know to! Oh, how often did Jesus say: Do not be afraid you men of little faith! - But still so many preach fear Is Christianity a fearful thing, or is to be a Christian joy itself?!

I even got acquaintances, who avoid Christianity, because so many talk about it as a threatening thing instead of joy itself, and then it’s damn hard to convince them of the real truth of Jesus - JOY IN BELIEF -

And no; it’s not mere presumption as “Catholic Answers Forums” here mentioned. Presumption really would be dangerous, but it’s instead the 1:1 word of the Bible and Church’s teaching. How could we merely HOPE to be saved, when Jesus did save us?! Of course not all could be saved and Jesus said it’s a minority who make it for heaven. But entering heaven is no lottery one might hope for, but a thing to work for in God’s word in certainty, with deeds by the Holy Spirit’s help and in the two commandments Jesus gave us in Mark 12,31. If we do so, then
WE KNOW WE GET INTO HEAVEN!
Hallelujah!

Yours
Bruno

 

[teachccd]

Satan believes in Jesus but he is not in heaven… I love your enthusiasm but you need to move away from the protestant mindset of “sola fide”. Read James chapter 2. A “said” faith without works is a dead faith. To believe in Jesus is to pick up your cross daily and FOLLOW him. And anytime we choose to put down the cross and follow other gods (money, lust, greed, gluttony, lies etc.) then we choose to be separated from Him.

We will be judged at the end of our lives and we have a hope that Jesus gives us but ultimately He is the final judge. If we “know” that we are in heaven then we just judged ourselves. We have a moral assurance of heaven if we are in the state of grace but only Jesus makes the final call… teachccd

 

[buffalo]

The question arose after my OP:

Can any of us know, without a doubt, know what our final disposition will be?

Yes we can, because we have Jesus’ promise! When I answer firmly YES I WILL GET INTO HEAVEN! I certainly know there might be Purgatory first, but this doesn’t mean it’s wrong what I said.

We do not have to differ between Purgatory and Limbo, as we are now after Jesus Christ’s resurrection and there’s but one of the two now. In great art-works, the paintings of that place where Christ went to rescue many often are named either, but none is mentioned in the Bible. So, let me say Purgalimbotory it doesn’t matter - let’s simply stick to the Church’s teaching in RCC under number 1023 - 1051. In the Credo however, we believe Christ went to hell rescuing His people. But that’s not the topic here anyhow - theme is “Do we know we are getting into heaven?”

Again and again I hear in many forums as well as in talks as here replied:

Can any of us know, without a doubt, know what our final disposition will be?

Of course we can! It’s only then that we can not - if we do not believe Jesus Christ!
Yes, we do know for sure, that we get into heaven, when we lived in God’s word and believed in God. This does not touch the question of purgatory. Why gaze at purgatory, when knowing we finally are in heaven? Where then would our joy in belief be? Jesus so often said REJOICE. I do! Don’t you?

If we would say “NO, WE DO NOT KNOW WHETHER OR NOT WE GET INTO HEAVEN”; then we’d deny Jesus’ Promise. And again: This does not touch the possibility to undergo purgation before we get into heaven.
Totally incomprehensible to me, when someone mentioned John 3,5 as counter-argument, for John 3,5 is another pro “know we are getting into heaven”, as Jesus here says:

“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God”<
But we are! So, where is the dissent?
All of the New Testament tells us, that we are getting into heaven - when we live in God’s word. How and why on earth would any Christian doubt this??? I wouldn’t even dare to say a single thing, that’s not according to our Church’s teaching.
All the counter arguments who prophesy doom and destruction instead of living in the Glory of God in Heaven , add: “if a Christian dies with serious (mortal) sins left unabsolved by Christ through a priest, he does not enter heaven”.
Didn’t I mention time after time, that he who knows to be getting into heaven, of course lives in God and did as Jesus told us? I did! Don’t we do so to the best of our ability? So: Why still not KNOWING if we get into heaven? How on earth could we even live in the JOY OF BELIEF when we simply keep hoping in despair?
To live in Jesus’ word means to KNOW to be getting into heaven, and that’s joy pure!

Quick question - if I declare Jesus my Lord and Savior from that moment on am I guaranteed heaven even if I murder someone?

 

[Carlan]

Bruno, I have a lovely fundamentalist neighbor who argues the same point you do and I keep trying to get her to see it the from a whole point of view and all she does is quote Scripture out of context .
We can, if our lives display a pattern of perseverance and spiritual fruit, have not only a confidence in our present state of grace but also of our future perseverance with God. Yet we cannot have an infallible certitude of our own salvation, as many Protestants will admit. There is the possibility of self-deception The (cf. Matt. 7:22-23). As Jeremiah expressed it, “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately corrupt; who can understand it?” (Jer. 17:9).
There is also the possibility of falling from grace through mortal sin, and even of falling away from the faith entirely, for as Jesus told us, there are those who “believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away” (Luke 8:13).*** It is in the light of these warnings and admonitions that we must understand Scripture’s positive statements concerning our ability to know and have confidence in our salvation. Assurance we may have; infallible certitude we may not. ***

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Bruno, I have a lovely fundamentalist neighbor who argues the same point you do and I keep trying to get her to see it the from a whole point of view and all she does is quote Scripture out of context .
We can, if our lives display a pattern of perseverance and spiritual fruit, have not only a confidence in our present state of grace but also of our future perseverance with God. Yet we cannot have an infallible certitude of our own salvation, as many Protestants will admit. There is the possibility of self-deception The (cf. Matt. 7:22-23). As Jeremiah expressed it, “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately corrupt; who can understand it?” (Jer. 17:9).
There is also the possibility of falling from grace through mortal sin, and even of falling away from the faith entirely, for as Jesus told us, there are those who “believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away” (Luke 8:13).*** It is in the light of these warnings and admonitions that we must understand Scripture’s positive statements concerning our ability to know and have confidence in our salvation. Assurance we may have; infallible certitude we may not. ***

I was intrigued with the title of this thread because these are statements and Scripture quotes I hear from Protestants all the time (I listen to their radio programs quite a bit), but we as Catholics are a lot less presumptuous about our eternal future…I wonder if Bruno really is a Catholic or if he is, he’s been listening to Protestants about being “saved through grace alone.”

 

[BrunoMaria]

Quick question - if I declare Jesus my Lord and Savior from that moment on am I guaranteed heaven even if I murder someone?

Quick answer:
He who murders - does he live in God’s word? Didn’t I explicitly point out IF WE LIVE ACCORDING TO JESUS’ WORD? – So; why do you ask such impossible thing?

There is also the possibility of falling from grace through mortal sin, and even of falling away from the faith entirely

Didn’t I state in all previous posts, that the certainty of knowing about getting into heaven, depends on a life according to Jesus’ word? Did he who fell away, remain in God?

these are statements and Scripture quotes …from Protestants … but we as Catholics are a lot less presumptuous about our eternal future… I wonder if Bruno really is a Catholic or if he is, he’s been listening to Protestants about being “saved through grace alone.”

Is our joy in belief of so little issue? Who is taking more joy of belief – Catholics or Protestants? Is still not clear, that protestant pietism lacks all the joy in belief Jesus recommended? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pietism
Why do you think, that someone being sure and full of joy of his certainty that he gets into heaven, would believe in the wrong Lutheran doctrine “saved through grace alone”?
Did I not mention all preconditions? TO LIVE IN GOD’S WORD

Was it all in vain, that Jesus said so often rejoice…. ?
Can you rejoice when at the same time you tremble with fear of God?

I repeat: WE KNOW WE GET INTO HEAVEN!
Hallelujah!

Bruno

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

with all due respect, bruno, your posts are WAYYYY too long. I quit reading them after the first fifty pages

The question arose after my OP:

Can any of us know, without a doubt, know what our final disposition will be?

Yes we can, because we have Jesus’ promise! When I answer firmly YES I WILL GET INTO HEAVEN! I certainly know there might be Purgatory first, but this doesn’t mean it’s wrong what I said.

We do not have to differ between Purgatory and Limbo, as we are now after Jesus Christ’s resurrection and there’s but one of the two now. In great art-works, the paintings of that place where Christ went to rescue many often are named either, but none is mentioned in the Bible. So, let me say Purgalimbotory it doesn’t matter - let’s simply stick to the Church’s teaching in RCC under number 1023 - 1051. In the Credo however, we believe Christ went to hell rescuing His people. But that’s not the topic here anyhow - theme is “Do we know we are getting into heaven?”

Again and again I hear in many forums as well as in talks as here replied:

Can any of us know, without a doubt, know what our final disposition will be?

Of course we can! It’s only then that we can not - if we do not believe Jesus Christ!
Yes, we do know for sure, that we get into heaven, when we lived in God’s word and believed in God. This does not touch the question of purgatory. Why gaze at purgatory, when knowing we finally are in heaven? Where then would our joy in belief be? Jesus so often said REJOICE. I do! Don’t you?

If we would say “NO, WE DO NOT KNOW WHETHER OR NOT WE GET INTO HEAVEN”; then we’d deny Jesus’ Promise. And again: This does not touch the possibility to undergo purgation before we get into heaven.
Totally incomprehensible to me, when someone mentioned John 3,5 as counter-argument, for John 3,5 is another pro “know we are getting into heaven”, as Jesus here says:

“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God”<
But we are! So, where is the dissent?
All of the New Testament tells us, that we are getting into heaven - when we live in God’s word. How and why on earth would any Christian doubt this??? I wouldn’t even dare to say a single thing, that’s not according to our Church’s teaching.
All the counter arguments who prophesy doom and destruction instead of living in the Glory of God in Heaven , add: “if a Christian dies with serious (mortal) sins left unabsolved by Christ through a priest, he does not enter heaven”.
Didn’t I mention time after time, that he who knows to be getting into heaven, of course lives in God and did as Jesus told us? I did! Don’t we do so to the best of our ability? So: Why still not KNOWING if we get into heaven? How on earth could we even live in the JOY OF BELIEF when we simply keep hoping in despair?
To live in Jesus’ word means to KNOW to be getting into heaven, and that’s joy pure!

 

[BrunoMaria]

Simply ignore it
Nobody said you’d have to read it at all?

 

[BrunoMaria]

How could we attract anyone about and for Catholicism, if we instead of talking (the absolute truly existing) joy of belief, spread just a mere hope, overlaid by fear as in: “work out your salvation with fear and trembling”? which the bible doesn’t say (Paul mentioned the word in Eph 6,5 in a much different relation). Jesus kept saying over and over again to those who believed in Him: “Do not be afraid!”

Isn’t it then surprising, when belief is preached as a fearful thing, that many parents say - as I startled actually witnessed on a TV-interview: “No, I will not teach my children Christianity, for life’s got enough fears and I won’t add these of belief too!” Who’s fault is it then, when so many grow up without belief? Not this mothers, but it lays on those who told her - belief is but hope and fear instead of certainty.

This anti-religious rubbish then grows in our young generations and we such kept them off belief! Belief is NOT a matter of fear, but of joy! Of greatest possible joy! When will this be understood?! When will the world and even our own fellow Catholics understand and believe Jesus’ words of: “Do not be afraid, for I am with you!”

The absolute truth is:
BELIEF IS THE MOST JOYFUL THING THE EARTH POSSESSES!

No, we all know, and I never said so, that faith alone makes salvation. Jesus often underlined, that our deeds makes true belief; among others in Mt 7,20-21: Thus you will know them by their fruits. Not every one who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven.

The point here is, that he who hears Jesus Word and lives in God, certainly fulfills these preconditions to the best of his ability - and so KNOWS, HE WILL GET INTO HEAVEN! (Disregarding if across purgatory or immediately).

So, we really must sets out pointers to help not only our children discover the joy of belief, but obviously even Catholics among us.

Yours
Bruno

 

[Carlan]

How could we attract anyone about and for Catholicism, if we instead of talking (the absolute truly existing) joy of belief, spread just a mere hope, overlaid by fear as in: “work out your salvation with fear and trembling”? which the bible doesn’t say (Paul mentioned the word in Eph 6,5 in a much different relation). Jesus kept saying over and over again to those who believed in Him: “Do not be afraid!”

Bruno, Catholics do not talk about “MERE HOPE” our hope is in the the resurrection of Christ.
Refer to Philippians2:12 …‘work in fear and trembling,’ It is God,for his own loving purpose, who puts both the will and action into you…(The Jerusalem Bible)

As Catholics we rejoice in the Lord always, We are not afraid!
Fear of God in the Bible is approximately what we call the virtue of religion, or devotion to God. The beginning of wisdom. Peace, Carlan

 

[teachccd]

How could we attract anyone about and for Catholicism, if we instead of talking (the absolute truly existing) joy of belief, spread just a mere hope, overlaid by fear as in: “work out your salvation with fear and trembling”?* which the bible doesn’t say* (Paul mentioned the word in Eph 6,5 in a much different relation). Jesus kept saying over and over again to those who believed in Him: “Do not be afraid!”

Philippians Chapter 2 verse 12—

12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act** in order to fulfill his good purpose**.

Your reference of Ephesians 6:5-----

5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.

Can you elaborate on how this gift of the Holy Spirit (fear of the Lord) is negated in these passages? Can we not see how in Philippians Paul is exhorting those to maintain their obedience to their Master as though this is a lifelong process to which there is no guarantee? We do have a moral assurance of heaven but then in Matthew 25:31-46 we find that God is the final judge. The crucifixion is where we witness infinte mercy and infinite justice. How could we ever stand before the cross and claim the same for ourselves. Jesus is the only One who can claim that for us when we are judged at the end of our lives. We can never judge ourselves with that kind of mercy and justice. How can you ignore all that scripture says about our judgment? And how would this apply with your sense of self-judgment?