Do we now live in "interesting times"?

[Economist]

The Constitutional System Is Not Built to Resist Trump’s Defiance of Congress

Trump is leading a political campaign against the legislative branch, and it calls for a political, not just judicial, response.

www.newyorker.com

Is This the Official Trump Constitutional Crisis?

Congress has had numerous standoffs with the executive branch through the years. Is this the big one?

www.newyorker.com

Let’s think about the possible future. Suppose that the standoff between the House of Representatives and Trump will continue. And despite all the subpoenas, Trump will declare some executive order to defy Congress. Suppose that the courts will eventually step in and the cases go all the way to the Supreme Court. Suppose that the Court decides against Trump. (Not impossible at all.) And then Trump refuses to accept the decision. (We are aware of the attitude: “F_ck the law!”)

What will happen next? Can the House declare “inherent contempt”? Yes, I know all this is hypothetical, but knowing Trumps total disregard for the law, it is not impossible. I guess we shall see… the times really look “interesting”.

 

[Ridgerunner]

knowing Trumps total disregard for the law

This is a non-topic because the above premise for it is false. Just one more hit piece by the left. I doubt it will have legs with the public, though. It’s like warning that Trump may be shopping for crowns in the museums of Europe preparatory to declaring himself king. The TRump haters would love to believe that, but nobody else will.

 

[dvdjs]

This is a non-topic

It is a serious topic. It is not the just the left. Many long term Republicans have similar perspectives.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

Welcome to the forum, OP!

Imma just go grab my and .

*looks around for comfy chair

 

[tomarin]

The New Yorker is ridiculous with its political coverage.

 

[7_Sorrows]

I wouldn’t lose any sleep over your concerns.
There are far bigger concerns in the world.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

In my life we’ve had Vietnam, Civil Rights Movement, Watergate, Oil crisis/ economic decline, Reagan + Missiles + Fall of USSR, Gulf War, 9/11, First African-American President and now Trump.

My whole life’s been one long “Interesting Time”. Though not as interesting as my parents who got to live through WWII, Korea and the Cold War plus several of the things above.

Can’t get too excited about it to be honest

 

[tomarin]

In my life we’ve had Vietnam, Civil Rights Movement, Watergate, Oil crisis/ economic decline, Reagan + Missiles + Fall of USSR, Gulf War, 9/11, First African-American President and now Trump.

Then there was the whole ‘Japanese taking over the world’ thing in the 1980’s; that never materialized.

 

[Peeps]

I think I live in “interesting times” because things are happening in my family, my workplace, my city, my state, my country, and my world.

Just today, I had ice cream in a little shop that just opened on a street that only a few years ago, was ruled by “working girls,” winos passed out on the sidewalk, drug pushers, and beggars. But today, I sat in this shop, run by several Hispanic families, and shared a table with strangers who live on that street, and who are THRILLED to have a decent little ice cream shop open and a place to take their kids. We had a wonderful talk–extremely interesting to hear from people who don’t live on the street where I live (which is pretty tough, too–two shootings in the last year, and no ice cream shop yet).

The ice cream is all home-made, BTW. I had Mint Oreo. There were plenty of Mexican flavors that other customers were taste-testing, but I saw that beautiful green ice cream and said, “That’s for me!”

I think that we need to look for interesting things in our time here on earth.

 

[Ridgerunner]

They actually lost their fannies attempting it, and it’s likely the Chinese will do the same.

I suppose liberal rags like the New Yorker want to cause people to fear Trump for no reason, when in actuality this country might have just dodged the worst threat to freedom we’ve ever had. The IRS, the FBI, the CIA and the DOJ had all turned (at least at the top) into servants of the Dem party and first tried to sabotage the election (colluding with Russians to do it) then to criminalize the elected president. Hopefully, though, Trump will be able to clean up those organs of government before leaving office.

But it really was a close thing.

 

[Economist]

Welcome to the forum, OP!

Thank you very much for your kind words.

There are far bigger concerns in the world.

Can’t get too excited about it to be honest

No one asserted that these are the biggest problems in the whole wide world. But right now, here, in these United States, a constitutional crisis seems to be rapidly approaching. And in my humble opinion it is a very serious problem. The whole Constitution is based upon the balance of powers, so that none of the branches of the government can overrule the others. And the totalitarian attitude of Trump is very dangerous. Trump looks at the country as if it were his wholly owned subsidiary.

Of course the OP is just a thought experiment. What will happen if Trump will continue to defy the legislative branch of the government, and if he will also defy the judicial branch - if things will get to that. After all Trump is also the commander in chief, and allegedly the troops MUST follow orders of their superiors. Sure, the Constitution does not allow the military to interfere in civil problems, but that is just one more aspect that can be “trumpled” upon.

If no one is interested in exploring this hypothetical scenario, no problem. But there are the defenders of the Second Amendment, who wish to defend the Constitution against the government - if it ever comes to that. I wonder if they would rise up against a Trump-like despot?

It looks like that some people are not familiar with the ancient Chinese curse: “May you live in interesting times”. Worth to look it up.

 

[7_Sorrows]

My advice is stay away from CNN and MSNBC and all liberal media or you will be in
a constant state of anxiety about these times.
This is exactly how they want you to feel and that you need them to save you. Don’t fall
for it. Go out and live your life and be happy.

 

[Economist]

My advice is stay away from CNN and MSNBC and all liberal media or you will be in
a constant state of anxiety about these times.
This is exactly how they want you to feel and that you need them to save you. Don’t fall
for it. Go out and live your life and be happy.

Thanks for the advice. Maybe it is a good idea to tell a few tidbits about myself.

It just so happens that I was born in one of the old communist countries, and lived there for over 30+ years. And then escaped, and eventually I became an American citizen. And now I have lived here in these beautiful United States for more than 40 years. So this country is my chosen home, and I feel very “protective” about our freedom.

I learned to separate the wheat from the chaff, to separate the “BS” from real truth. Back then we listened to Radio Free Europe and BBC, along with the local broadcast. So I am more than well equipped to find out which kind of news cover the real events. Obviously I watched the right wing stations here, too. Listened to Rush Limbaugh, and watched Fox as well. At the beginning I considered myself a Republican, until I learned that they are exactly as hypocritical as the Democrats.

I found two wonderful bumper stickers. On the left side I used: “Vote Democrat! It’s easier than working!”. And on the right side: “Vote Republican! It’s easier than thinking!” They describe both parties perfectly. Not to mention that both parties what to take our money, and spend it on their preferred goals. The Republicans want weapons, and more weapons… The Democrats want to spend on social programs. I despise both parties. Right now I despise the Republicans more… the reason is the spineless types of Lindsey Graham, who change their principles as the wind blows. Just look up his words about Trump.

But I don’t need to listen to the interpreters. I can hear the words straight from the horse’s mouth, directly from Trump. And that is extremely disheartening. Lies, and more lies every day. When it cannot be explained away, the supporters say: “It was just a joke!” Sorry, juvenile locker room jokes cannot be accepted. When he says about women: "Grab them by the *** " - it cannot be forgiven. When he said: “I can go shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and will not lose even one vote” - it may be true, but if it is true, it is horrible indictment of his core supporters.

And to those who think that his economic policies are a generic panacea, they have a lot to learn. Tariffs are detrimental for both parties.

 

[tomarin]

The nice thing about growing older is that you’ve ‘seen it all.’

 

[Cathoholic]

Economist . . . .

I found two wonderful bumper stickers. On the left side I used: “Vote Democrat! It’s easier than working!”. And on the right side: “Vote Republican! It’s easier than thinking!” They describe both parties perfectly. Not to mention that both parties what to take our money, and spend it on their preferred goals.

First of all, welcome to CAF.

You said . . .

both parties what to take our money, and spend it on their preferred goals.

.

“Politicians bad.”

That is the message I am hearing from you.

I am a small government type of person.

When we see programs resulting in increasing Government size, it is usually (not always) worrisome…

Please feel free to join me in the arena of ideas to attempt to get people on the same page as myself (and others too) looking for ways to make Government SMALLER.

After all. If you are down on BOTH parties, it sounds like the solution is to give them less power all around.

God bless.

Cathoholic

 

[Victoria33]

Trump will go down as one of the greatest presidents, the gripers I have no time for.

The Christians in the MIddle East, especially Syria and Iraq were being slaughtered. They may never come back to full force but Trump got out of the way and let the Military do their job and yes, now they have a chance.

All those speaking against Trump did nothing about this, if they didn’t vote for him. They would have let Christians who have been there since the New Testament was written possibly die out as a people, at least in their homeland, Assyrians and Chaldeans. The list goes on but I’m glad I’m a part of it.

Of course, no one is perfect.

Lies? Who hasn’t told lies? What president? “If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor” and this is concerning a matter very important to people, their health. Not some mix up on where there father was born.

Lowest unemployment rates for minorities. We just have to keep supporting him to bring about the best possible. North Korea is still on the horizon but they’ve been largely quieted but are acting up a bit again.

And, if one researches it, Bush 43 and Clinton actually helped these people with their nuclear development. Obama gave the Iranians billions.

 

[7_Sorrows]

And here I thought you weren’t much
older than a teenager!

 

[dvdjs]

The IRS, the FBI, the CIA and the DOJ had all turned (at least at the top) into servants of the Dem party

The great threat to the US is that more than a few people, albeit a minority, believe this hogwash and turn a blind eye to the assault on our institutions and constitution by the current regime…

 

[DENNYINMI]

But I don’t need to listen to the interpreters. I can hear the words straight from the horse’s mouth, directly from Trump. And that is extremely disheartening. Lies, and more lies every day. When it cannot be explained away, the supporters say: “It was just a joke!” Sorry, juvenile locker room jokes cannot be accepted. When he says about women: "Grab them by the *** " - it cannot be forgiven. When he said: “I can go shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and will not lose even one vote” - it may be true, but if it is true, it is horrible indictment of his core supporters.

I love your second sentence, how true. He will run the country like he ran his business he said, scary thought…Lets believe him.

The thing is he’s not a conservative, I’m not actually sure what you’d call him. Conservatives love their deficit hawk principles and it’s not what we have right now. He can’t be called the moral pillar of the community they traditionally have held up as the Biblical face of America (God is on our side) so not quite sure where their ship is being steered, but I gotta tell you, a lot of people are all on board.

Regarding the “I could shoot someone and still not loose voters” statement is true and proves this administration is a culture war because it’s certainly not an efficient government for which the dems will most certainly be blamed…hahaha…welcome to the community.

in the mean time back home on the farm, soy beans are stored a mile high and the GM plant closings are gearing up to hurt…but lets bring back coal and manufacturing jobs till we’re tired of winning!~… sure… righto!~

 

[PickyPicky]

The question is an interesting one, @Economist, but the answer is, I think, we simply don’t know what happens in a democracy if the Executive declines to follow a decision of the Judiciary. It’s hardly possible for a Constitution to settle the question since, by definition, the President in your thought experiment would be one who would be unconcerned about a breach of the Constitution.

Usually, in a democracy, as such a constitutional crisis nears, we would expect those around the President, his officers, his congressional supporters etc, to manoeuvre the President away from the crisis point. If they don’t: it may be that democracy has lost.

In those circumstances, you’d better hope that the general who takes over as chairman of the Committee of National Safety is a good fellow.