Do we really need all these different Masses?

[Fitswimmer]

I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. I grew up in the early 70’s and I remember there being several Masses on a Sunday-but they were all pretty much the same. The early Sunday AM mass didn’t have music, but other than that if you missed one and went to another the only thing different was the Priest that said it.

Now, we have Children’s Masses, Teen Masses, Rock Masses, Organ Masses…not to mention the Masses said for non-English speaking folks. Then there are the special Masses during the year to celebrate different populations.

I can’t help thinking that we’re fragmenting ourselves too much with all this. Any thoughts?

 

[JimG]

I guess it depends on the parish and the Mass attendance at each Mass. Our parish has two Saturday vigil Masses and five on Sunday and most are pretty packed, so we probably wouldn’t be able to easily reduce the number of Masses without some overcrowding.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I guess it depends on the parish and the Mass attendance at each Mass. Our parish has two Saturday vigil Masses and five on Sunday and most are pretty packed, so we probably wouldn’t be able to easily reduce the number of Masses without some overcrowding.

I’m not suggesting reducing Masses. It’s a blessing that a parish can have so many and be pretty packed! I’m suggesting that by having Masses geared to specific populations we’re creating a kind of segregation within our communities where we should be striving for unity.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

I can see arguments both ways.

On the one hand it would be nice to think that everyone could worship together and get to know each other and truly be a community. That won’t happen if the people who attend the Spanish Mass never meet the people who attend the children’s Mass or the people who attend the Lifeteen Mass.

But the truth is that we don’t mix things up all that much anyway. People get into a routine and pretty much always attend the 9am Mass or whichever is their favorite. Even if the Masses are the same they don’t get to know people at the 10:30 or noon Masses because they seldom attend them.

It would be nice if we all knew each other, but considering the size of Catholic churches that’s not going to happen. So then I guess the question is whether we meet people’s spiritual needs by having different languages or musical styles at different Masses.

I have to admit that I have this mischievous idea about mixing up my parish’s 9am Mass (which has the RCIA folks) and 10:30 Mass (which has the children’s Liturgy of the Word). We’d start the Mass then call the children up for their dismissal. Then continue through the homily and call up the catechumens for their dismissal. Soon after that the children would return for the remainder of the Mass. And visitors would be totally flummoxed.

 

[MrS]

It is a very drastic extension of the Mass intention.

It is one thing to ask a priest (and provide a stipend) to include one or more special intentions in the Mass. The small amount of the stipend proves this is not done for money.

It is one thing to have special readings for a Mass… like a wedding or funeral.

But I think we have gone to far when the language or postures or music or “active participation” is interjected into the entirty of the Mass.

You want a “Polish” Mass? Fine… Say the Mass with the special intention of praying for the Polish in the parish.

You want a “Teen” Mass? Fine… Say the Mass with the special intention of our young people.

You want a “Children’s” Mass?.Fine…Say the Mass with the chilcren up front and as the special intention.

The extreme abuses may be rare… but they are getting more common.

.

 

[MrS]

I can see arguments both ways.

On the one hand it would be nice to think that everyone could worship together and get to know each other and truly be a community. That won’t happen if the people who attend the Spanish Mass never meet the people who attend the children’s Mass or the people who attend the Lifeteen Mass.

But the truth is that we don’t mix things up all that much anyway. People get into a routine and pretty much always attend the 9am Mass or whichever is their favorite. Even if the Masses are the same they don’t get to know people at the 10:30 or noon Masses because they seldom attend them.

It would be nice if we all knew each other, but considering the size of Catholic churches that’s not going to happen. So then I guess the question is whether we meet people’s spiritual needs by having different languages or musical styles at different Masses.

I have to admit that I have this mischievous idea about mixing up my parish’s 9am Mass (which has the RCIA folks) and 10:30 Mass (which has the children’s Liturgy of the Word). We’d start the Mass then call the children up for their dismissal. Then continue through the homily and call up the catechumens for their dismissal. Soon after that the children would return for the remainder of the Mass. And visitors would be totally flummoxed.

It’s a MIRACLE… the Church turned all those older folks into kids again…

“…unless you come to me as little children…”

W W

 

[hilde_the_dog]

We don’t reall have that many different masses. One vigil mass on Sat. and five masses on Sunday. the 1pm Sun is in Spanish. Other than that, less singing at 7:30am Sun, piano and maybe acustic guitar at 9am. Rare special children mass during the week for the school children, but not on Sunday. I have not problem with the Spanish mass. In the diocese we have several vietamnese church services. In days gone by I bet there were polish masses, italian masses. Hey I remember growing in Holland Michigan in Calvinstist churches where you could still find dutch church services.

 

[water]

I’m not suggesting reducing Masses. It’s a blessing that a parish can have so many and be pretty packed! I’m suggesting that by having Masses geared to specific populations we’re creating a kind of segregation within our communities where we should be striving for unity.

Not all people speak English and they want to understand what is going on during the mass.

 

[karl4]

I wonder if this “pontential problem” was ever present when the latin mass was prayed in every CC.? Isn’t trying to please everyone great…!!!

 

[LilyM]

I wonder if this “pontential problem” was ever present when the latin mass was prayed in every CC.? Isn’t trying to please everyone great…!!!

Well it wasn’t. Never. We always had Maronites praying their DL in Arabic and Aramaic, Byzantine Catholics in Greek (I think), Ruthenians in Old Church Slavonic (again, I think). Heck, not even the same FORM of liturgy let alone the same language! And yet all beautifully Catholic, in the true sense of the word, meaning universal.

Besides which, as our good friend Brotherhrolf can tell you, there was always demarcation based on language if nothing else - the hymns and homily (and usually the readings) was always done in someone’s vernacular, and he can tell you there were German, Italian and Irish Catholic parishes among others - sometimes next door to or across the road from each other - and rarely the twain (or three or four) would meet.

 

[ethelzguy]

I wonder if this “pontential problem” was ever present when the latin mass was prayed in every CC.? Isn’t trying to please everyone great…!!!

Of course, we could just make everything exactly identical at every Mass at every Church. Heck, let’s tear all our buildings down too, and rebuild them all to be IDENTICAL.

Where is it said that everything must be identical? We had ethnic parishes and churches for centuries. It isn’t some new post-Vatican II invention.

And back to the question of karl4…the “different Masses” aren’t all about language. There is more to it than that.

 

[karl4]

didn’t realize I was requesting everything be identical… little sensitive huh!!!

 

[ethelzguy]

didn’t realize I was requesting everything be identical… little sensitive huh!!!

Nah, just putting it in context with the thousands of other posts I read in the L&S and TC forums.

 

[Lepanto]

Now, we have Children’s Masses, Teen Masses, Rock Masses, Organ Masses…not to mention the Masses said for non-English speaking folks. Then there are the special Masses during the year to celebrate different populations.

I can’t help thinking that we’re fragmenting ourselves too much with all this. Any thoughts?

As someone with some background in marketing, I look at these as gimmicky “designer Masses,” which are offered to “appeal” to different “market demographics.”

And yes, they do fragment and stratify a parish. The various groups probably have very little interaction amongst each other.

Back when everything was in Latin we were more likely to pray as one – and believe as one.

 

[Rolltide]

As someone with some background in marketing, I look at these as gimmicky “designer Masses,” which are offered to “appeal” to different “market demographics.”

And yes, they do fragment and stratify a parish. The various groups probably have very little interaction amongst each other.

Back when everything was in Latin we were more likely to pray as one – and believe as one.

Where does that leave the Ambrosian, Mozarabic, and Eastern Rites, let alone the rites of the orders?

 

[water]

Back when everything was in Latin we were more likely to pray as one – and believe as one.

Did they back then pray the Rosary in Latin too?
and what you meant “believe as one” back then …in comparision to nowadays?

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

As someone with some background in marketing, I look at these as gimmicky “designer Masses,” which are offered to “appeal” to different “market demographics.”

But they could be looked at as an attempt to meet people’s deepest spiritual needs.

If you are a native speaker of a non-English language but also speak English as a second language, you may find it easier to pray in your native language. I don’t think that having the parish offer a Mass in your native language is a bad thing.

Or – I’m guessing – that you, Lepanto, would prefer a Mass in Latin. Would it be a bad thing for a parish to offer a Mass in the language you’d prefer?

We still get into the problem of the parish community being fragmented, but that seems to happen no matter what. People tend to go to the same Mass every week.

 

[Aramis]

I wonder if this “pontential problem” was ever present when the latin mass was prayed in every CC.? Isn’t trying to please everyone great…!!!

It chased my grandmother away in the 1930’s.

It was such an obstacle that the council of Trent permitted Church Slavonic in the Balkans instead of Latin; an indult that lasted until V II. Note: That’s for the Roman Mass.

The Eastern Churches were never in latin.

 

[KingAlfred]

I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. I grew up in the early 70’s and I remember there being several Masses on a Sunday-but they were all pretty much the same. The early Sunday AM mass didn’t have music, but other than that if you missed one and went to another the only thing different was the Priest that said it.

Now, we have Children’s Masses, Teen Masses, Rock Masses, Organ Masses…not to mention the Masses said for non-English speaking folks. Then there are the special Masses during the year to celebrate different populations.

I can’t help thinking that we’re fragmenting ourselves too much with all this. Any thoughts?

It’s mostly about communicating the Church’s message. *That *needs to remain consistent, but the means by which it’s delivered need to be adjusted to the audience. As someone who watched Protestant evangelists aggressively evangelize in Latin America, sometimes right outside Catholic churches and cathedrals, I believe strongly in effective communication. To retain and grow the flock, we must capture hearts and minds.

 

[Thaddeus]

I agree . My wife likes the novus ordo Mass with its contemporary music and very liberal priest. I prefer the Anglican Use Mass with its majestic beauty, Gregorian Chant, and kneeling for Communion. We haven’t gone to Mass together in years.