Do we really need all these different Masses?

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Thaddeus said:
I agree . My wife likes the novus ordo Mass with its contemporary music and very liberal priest. I prefer the Anglican Use Mass with its majestic beauty, Gregorian Chant, and kneeling for Communion. We haven’t gone to Mass together in years.
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That is too bad… but would you or have you considered going to both with each other. Yes that would mean going to two Masses, but I hope that the division you are experiencing does not harm other things in your marriage.

I have friends who do something similar. One goes to a NO that has only a few “norms” that were not intended. The other goes to a NO where each week you could experience something new. I don’t know the future for them, but …

Strangly, the NO with few new “norms” has a pastor who has a penchant for entertaining at Mass.(small parish)
And the NO with lots of changes has a pastor who is considered very conservative (hugh parish, formerly “run” by the women in the office).

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I have made the effort to go to my wife’s Mass many times, but she will not go with me to mine. I can’t stand the sermons of her liberal priest, mixing liberal politics and strange humor into his sermons. It makes it tough to receive communion when you are angry !!
 
Different tastes for different folks.

The Church is trying to keep the pews filled.

Not everyone likes a Mass with Gregorian chanting.
 
onetimeposter said:
Different tastes for different folks.

The Church is trying to keep the pews filled.

Not everyone likes a Mass with Gregorian chanting.
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The Church did not design Mass to cater to the likes and dislikes of the people in the past.
 
lak611 said:
The Church did not design Mass to cater to the likes and dislikes of the people in the past.
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…and they have lost hundreds of millions of Christians over the last 400 years to Protestantism.

Stem the flow or keep all Masses identical and concentrate ( and accept ) a smaller, more conservative, minority Catholic Church.

I would guess that the Church is doing what they can to stop people from leaving.

Perhaps the Church recognizes that a 65 year old pensioner appreciates a different style of worship than a 15 year old teenager.
 
Fitswimmer said:
Now, we have Children’s Masses, Teen Masses, Rock Masses, Organ Masses…not to mention the Masses said for non-English speaking folks. Then there are the special Masses during the year to celebrate different populations.

I can’t help thinking that we’re fragmenting ourselves too much with all this. Any thoughts?
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Yes- here they are.

They should get rid of the ones that*** I*** don’t like, and keep the rest. :cool:

Really, a question like this makes one wonder who is going to decide which Masses to keep and which to end. Since I assume all the above listed forms have been given approval from the proper authorities, then they are all valid and licit. Don’t like them, don’t go to them. If you’re dissatisfied by the level of “fellowshipping” or whatever you’re after in your parish, then offer your time and organize events where everyone can come together.
 
onetimeposter said:
…and they have lost hundreds of millions of Christians over the last 400 years to Protestantism.

Stem the flow or keep all Masses identical and concentrate ( and accept ) a smaller, more conservative, minority Catholic Church.

I would guess that the Church is doing what they can to stop people from leaving.

Perhaps the Church recognizes that a 65 year old pensioner appreciates a different style of worship than a 15 year old teenager.
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The Catholic Church is growing…and do you know where most of the growth is…protestants converting. I’m sick to do death of all this " let’s try to out protestant the protestant". “we must have more entertaining masses”. I don’t understand the need for all the different types of masses based on one thing…we should be going for the Eucharist …since when does the Mass get critqued on it’s entertainment value like a movie. Leave that kind of talk for the Joel Olsteen’s. I want to go to Mass to attempt in my feeble way to say thanks and worship God …I’ll go to the movies if I want to be entertained.
 
Rolltide said:
Where does that leave the Ambrosian, Mozarabic, and Eastern Rites, let alone the rites of the orders?
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Obviously, I was not talking about the recognized rites of the Church.

Children’s Masses, Teen Masses, Rock Masses, Organ Masses, etc. are not rites (although some may think of them as “rights.”)
 
karl4 said:
The Catholic Church is growing…and do you know where most of the growth is…protestants converting. I’m sick to do death of all this " let’s try to out protestant the protestant". “we must have more entertaining masses”. I don’t understand the need for all the different types of masses based on one thing…we should be going for the Eucharist …since when does the Mass get critqued on it’s entertainment value like a movie. Leave that kind of talk for the Joel Olsteen’s. I want to go to Mass to attempt in my feeble way to say thanks and worship God …I’ll go to the movies if I want to be entertained.
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Do you have a source for the idea that growth is coming through Protestants becoming Catholic? I ask because that’s not the information I’ve seen.

According to an article from April:
  • Since the early 1970s the percentage of the population counting itself as Catholic has remained stable at around 25 percent. But according to Pew, no other major faith has experienced greater net losses with 31.4 percent of U.S. adults saying they were raised Catholic and about one in 10 describing themselves as former Catholics.
  • In the face of these losses the Church has maintained its share of the U.S. population by winning its own converts but mostly through immigration, especially from Latin America. The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops says that about 39 percent of U.S. Catholics are Hispanic.
  • The USCCB also says that since 1960, 71 percent of U.S. Catholic population growth has been Hispanic and that by the second decade of the 21st century, more than 50 percent of U.S. Catholics will likely be Hispanic.
Sounds to me like we’ll be having a lot more Spanish-language Masses in the future.
 
MrS said:
It is a very drastic extension of the Mass intention.

It is one thing to ask a priest (and provide a stipend) to include one or more special intentions in the Mass. The small amount of the stipend proves this is not done for money.

It is one thing to have special readings for a Mass… like a wedding or funeral.

But I think we have gone to far when the language or postures or music or “active participation” is interjected into the entirty of the Mass.

You want a “Polish” Mass? Fine… Say the Mass with the special intention of praying for the Polish in the parish.

You want a “Teen” Mass? Fine… Say the Mass with the special intention of our young people.

You want a “Children’s” Mass?.Fine…Say the Mass with the chilcren up front and as the special intention.

The extreme abuses may be rare… but they are getting more common.

.
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Well as a member of the Hispanic community, in a way i find it unfair if we had masses only in english so the english speakers could understand, but abolish the spanish language mass for all the hispanics who can’t speak english.
 
reff said:
Well as a member of the Hispanic community, in a way i find it unfair if we had masses only in english so the english speakers could understand, but abolish the spanish language mass for all the hispanics who can’t speak english.
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Having lived in a Spanish speaking country (Argentina) I can very much appreciate where you are coming from. Whilst I could speak spanish well enough for basic communication, those who could speak english were a life saver - it was nice to just not have to think constantly occasionally.

I didn’t once attend an english church service whilst I was there (I’m crossing the tiber now), but I certainly struggle to get anything out of the church services I did go to.

I think that is ultimately what should decide whether a service exists - does this service meet a need which we are currently not lacking? If so… spiritual health is worth it.
 
Like most of us, I came from immigrants. My great grandmother came over from Poland. At that time, the Mass was still in Latin, so her missal still worked just fine for her. She learned English in the Chuch basement, the Priests and Sisters taught the immigrants so they could get decent jobs.

Where I live now, there is a high concentration of Spanish speaking immigrants, and I know many who have lived here for 5 years or more that can still speak NO English. I can’t figure how that’s good.

Consensus seems to be that foreign language masses are here to stay, and I guess that’s fine.

So how about the kiddie and teen masses? Are we helping our children and youth become better Catholics through these specially targeted liturgies? I don’t have kids myself, so I’m really interested in the parents opinions.
 
Thaddeus said:
I have made the effort to go to my wife’s Mass many times, but she will not go with me to mine. I can’t stand the sermons of her liberal priest, mixing liberal politics and strange humor into his sermons. It makes it tough to receive communion when you are angry !!
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I know what you mean. On the Sunday following 911, a visiting priest at our church asked a lay missionary on home-leave from his mission in *El Salvador *to speak to us in place of the sermon. The kid immediately started bashing the U.S. for all its alleged ‘misdeeds’ done to poor countries around the world. The kid was radical, inappropriate, and the victim of very, very, very bad timing, along with the priest. I was sitting down front, and got up during the kid’s diatribe, and walked out. I was still on active duty (barely…I was out-processing for retirement), looked the part, and hoped to make a statement by walking out of Mass. That was an extremely *ill-advised *move on the priest’s part. :mad:
 
ethelzguy said:
That’s right, Mass is supposed to be as antagonistic and uncomfortable as possible. 👍

:rolleyes:
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LOL. Actually, though, one shouldn’t get too comfortable in any on type of Mass. Most priests are eventually moved out and many may eventually have to live without their Spanish Mass or Teen Masses or whatever Mass because of the shortage of priests. And there is a shortage; all should look at the ratio of church-goers against the number of priests overall. So some people should take whatever they can get. The alternative is too sad to talk about.
 
ProVobis said:
LOL. Actually, though, one shouldn’t get too comfortable in any on type of Mass. Most priests are eventually moved out and many may eventually have to live without their Spanish Mass or Teen Masses or whatever Mass because of the shortage of priests. And there is a shortage; all should look at the ratio of church-goers against the number of priests overall. So some people should take whatever they can get. The alternative is too sad to talk about.
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That’s true. Our current pastor could be transfered out, and the next priest in could look at the LifeTeen program and say “THIS STOPS NOW”…or…he could shut down the Perpetual Adoration Chapel immediately “out of concern for safety”.

One never knows. I am aware of several people from the nearby parish who come to ours because they feel the priest there isn’t “reverent” enough. He is extremely intelligent, spiritual, and knows how to motivate his parish (they’re building a $6M new church building now). But, yes, he isn’t the most reverent cat you ever saw.

We can be grateful for what we have, or we can gripe about what we don’t. For 20+ years, we had a very traditional pastor. We must have been the last parish in the diocese to use a Communion rail. People couldn’t wait til he was gone. Finally he was.

Our next priest was very liberal. Wore jeans and boots all the time. He was run out on a rail. The Bishop left us without a priest for a year or so…methinks he was teaching us a lesson. 😉

The pastor we have now is great. He manages the entire spectrum, from Chapel, to LifeTeen. 👍
 
Fitswimmer said:
I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. I grew up in the early 70’s and I remember there being several Masses on a Sunday-but they were all pretty much the same. The early Sunday AM mass didn’t have music, but other than that if you missed one and went to another the only thing different was the Priest that said it.

Now, we have Children’s Masses, Teen Masses, Rock Masses, Organ Masses…not to mention the Masses said for non-English speaking folks. Then there are the special Masses during the year to celebrate different populations.

I can’t help thinking that we’re fragmenting ourselves too much with all this. Any thoughts?
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I do not see it as fragmentation, I see it as reaching out to as many as possible. If a parish has the resources to support the diversity in mass styles, it is a good thing and usually ends with higher mass counts and parish giving.
 
Lepanto said:
As someone with some background in marketing, I look at these as gimmicky “designer Masses,” which are offered to “appeal” to different “market demographics.”

And yes, they do fragment and stratify a parish. The various groups probably have very little interaction amongst each other.

Back when everything was in Latin we were more likely to pray as one – and believe as one.
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ditto, back in the day the church maintened a greater level of reverence. Today, especially during the spanish mass with its folk music (cumbia?), the church feels more like a carnival ride. We need to rebuild the church to its past glory.
 
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