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PRmerger
Guest
Amen!
Question to you, cheezey: do you believe doctrine matters? Or can one profess to be a Christian and, by virtue of this, be united to the Church?
Do we really want another 500 years of division between Catholics and Protestants?
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Question to you, cheezey: do you believe doctrine matters? Or can one profess to be a Christian and, by virtue of this, be united to the Church?
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JustaServant
Guest
Do we really want another 500 POSTS of division between Catholics and Protestants?
Sorry, couldn’t resist.
Sorry, couldn’t resist.
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Chris_Etzel
Guest
You said “Bible” not “Protestant Bible” in the post I was responding to.Here’s a little history of Protestant Bibles. The KJV is definitely overrated. The mainstream English Bible of its day was the Geneva Bible (Calvinist’s notes on it). The English king was anti-Calvinistic so he authorized the KJV to be made which the translation was made from the Bishops Bible, omitting those Reformed notes. The Bible that came to America was the Geneva Bible and not the KJV.
Had the Protestant unpleasantness not popped up you’d be reading Douay-Rheims or some other approved Catholic bible.
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asd72
Guest
I think it is meaningless to ask someone to repent and belief if we can’t say yes or no. Throughout the Bible it is the two ways, “choose this day who you will serve.” God’s grace must be met with our positive response to receive the totally unmerited free gift of initial salvation in baptism.
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cheezey
Guest
I don’t know. I am deeply wanting of expression to my faith, God’s love. Of course, without doctrines, chaos would ensue. The Church is the medium of The message, a medium we need. But without God, His Beloved Son and His message of Love, and the Holy Spirit, would there be the institution of the Church? I don’t know, I am no expert, but earnest. And hurting. It further pains me that I cannot see the Church that is the Kingdom within these Q & A’s. These debates, to the best of my knowledge, are centering on the institution of the Church. I am in no way disparaging the Holy Church. I have come to appreciate, with historical education, its doctrines; through this, I have come to learn more of The Catholic Church with irreverent sounding, reverent actually ‘a HA!!!’ moments of “THAT"S where that comes from!!!’ , THAT"S what that means!!!” and “THAT make sense!!!” From these,I I am leaning towards the Catholic Church.
Most important to me is"'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
This may not answer your question, but one, I am listening to the F word being thrown all around me; two, I am desperate to get out of where I live, but to do so would make me homeless; and they are throwing me out anyway in a month, even as they know that I have nowhere to go, and thus, I am trying to diligently to avoid, immediately, a panic attack, and long term, homelessness.
I come here in earnest as I otherwise float nowhere in this life. I believe with all my heart that He will not fail me; I believe with all my heart, that if I cannot make the conversion in the institution of the Church in time, I believe to ’ love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."[God will not fail me. This cannot possibly be wrong. I cannot fathom Him denying me because the Church is inaccessible to me right now. He does not deny me, now for He is calling somehow, I do not know how, and I Adore Him NOW. Can this really be compared to willfully spitting in His eye, saying it’s all a conspiracy and calling it all FBS, words I cannot morally or respectfully type here, as the ones I live with say with every single opportunity?!
Forgive me. I am obviously not in a good human place right now, but I do know, that even while in this hell hole, there is Love out there. It is just terribly dark right now. And for 26+ others. I will learn from it, I will grow from it, I will appreciate it somehow, but right now, it is profoundly tough. I do not hate these people: I pray every night for them if I haven’t fallen asleep from exhaustion. They were also my best friends. Praying is a good thing, but I am not hearing Him very well right now except to Love, and that all will be well one day. In my human frailty, I am anxious for one day on earth as well as Heaven, for this world can be a glimpse of what can be for us as we await Him. (Tough right now, though, isn’t it?) And he keeps telling me, despite my overwhelming fatigue to carry this burden, I think He’s telling me that I am not done yet; I am not done serving Him. But how to… I do not know. Meanwhile, I am floating nowhere.
I think I’ll change my location…
Forgive me.
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cheezey
Guest
The bread I will give is my flesh for the life of the world (Jn 6:51).
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PRmerger
Guest
does not deny me, now for He is calling somehow, I do not know how, and I Adore Him NOW. Can this really be compared to willfully spitting in His eye, saying it’s all a conspiracy and calling it all F*BS, words I cannot morally or respectfully type here, as the ones I live with say with every single opportunity?!
Forgive me. I am obviously not in a good human place right now, but I do know, that even while in this hell hole, there is Love out there. It is just terribly dark right now. And for 26+ others. I will learn from it, I will grow from it, I will appreciate it somehow, but right now, it is profoundly tough. I do not hate these people: I pray every night for them if I haven’t fallen asleep from exhaustion. They were also my best friends. Praying is a good thing, but I am not hearing Him very well right now except to Love, and that all will be well one day. In my human frailty, I am anxious for one day on earth as well as Heaven, for this world can be a glimpse of what can be for us as we await Him. (Tough right now, though, isn’t it?) And he keeps telling me, despite my overwhelming fatigue to carry this burden, I think He’s telling me that I am not done yet; I am not done serving Him. But how to… I do not know. Meanwhile, I am floating nowhere.
I think I’ll change my location…
Forgive me.
I will lift you up in my prayers, cheezey.
But forgive me for saying this, but from your description above, you don’t need to be seeking answers on an online forum. You need to be speaking with your priest to be receiving spiritual direction and seeking assistance with some public agencies.
God be with you.
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cheezey
Guest
–PRmerger:
I agree on both counts, but I do not have a priest, and this forum is educating me, and more to the point right now, I am otherwise humanly alone.
Thank you for your prayers…
I agree on both counts, but I do not have a priest, and this forum is educating me, and more to the point right now, I am otherwise humanly alone.
Thank you for your prayers…
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PRmerger
Guest
I’m sure there’s a Catholic church within walking/bus distance. Check in with their St. Vincent de Paul organization to get physical assistance and with the priest for spiritual assistance.
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cheezey
Guest
I am doing everything I can, I really am. Thank you for the advice. It is just too much and overwhelming. Meanwhile, the only Church nearby isn’t interested, which also makes no sense. I may try yet again, however…
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benjohnson
Guest
We all (hopefully) desire grace and respond to God, but the concept that I’m trying to discuss is merit. Sadly, I’m not to good at this so it’s not obvious what I’m trying to say.
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Carlan
Guest
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Carlan
Guest
I recall that was a quote from Guan our good friend from his earlier post.
Peace, Carlan
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asd72
Guest
Here is a tract on merit from a Catholic perpective. Initial salvation is a total free gift, where we are baptized into Christ and become adopted children of God.
catholic.com/tracts/reward-and-merit
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benjohnson
Guest
That a great read, and thank you. Though, I still have problems with Cannon IX of Trent, I’m willing to be happy and content with what Catholics are telling me, and not what I think I’m reading in Trent.
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asd72
Guest
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Stilldreamn
Guest
Thanks. This is very helpful. Between Guan’s explanation and this tract, my knickers are no longer twisted.
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guanophore
Guest
YAY!!!Thanks. This is very helpful. Between Guan’s explanation and this tract, my knickers are no longer twisted.
:extrahappy:
They get so uncomfortable to wear like that!
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Carlan
Guest
Thanks. This is very helpful. Between Guan’s explanation and this tract,
Reward and Merit
Paul tells us: “For [God] will reward every man according to his works: to those who by perseverance in working good seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. There will be . . . glory and honor and peace for every one who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality” (Rom. 2:6–11; cf. Gal. 6:6–10).
In the second century, the technical Latin term for “merit” was introduced as a synonym for the Greek word for “reward.” Thus merit and reward are two sides of the same coin.
Protestants often misunderstand the Catholic teaching on merit, thinking that Catholics believe that one must do good works to come to God and be saved. This is exactly the opposite of what the Church teaches. The Council of Trent stressed: “[N]one of those things which precede justification, whether faith or works, merit the grace of justification; for if it is by grace, it is not now by works; otherwise, as the Apostle [Paul] says, grace is no more grace” (Decree on Justification 8, citing Rom. 11:6).
The Catholic Church teaches only Christ is capable of meriting in the strict sense—mere man cannot (Catechism of the Catholic Church 2007). The most merit humans can have is condign—when, under the impetus of God’s grace, they perform acts which please him and which he has promised to reward (Rom. 2:6–11, Gal. 6:6–10). Thus God’s grace and his promise form the foundation for all human merit (CCC 2008).
Virtually all of this is agreed to by Protestants, who recognize that, under the impetus of God’s grace, Christians do perform acts which are pleasing to God and which God has promised to reward, meaning that they fit the definition of merit. When faced with this, Protestants are forced to admit the truth of the Catholic position—although, contrary to Paul’s command (2 Tim. 2:14), they may still dispute the terminology.
Thus the Lutheran Book of Concord admits: “We are not putting forward an empty quibble about the term ‘reward.’ . . . We grant that eternal life is a reward because it is something that is owed—not because of our merits [in the strict sense] but because of the promise [of God]. We have shown above that justification is strictly a gift of God; it is a thing promised. To this gift the promise of eternal life has been added” (p. 162).
Council of Orange II
“[G]race is preceded by no merits. A reward is due to good works, if they are performed, but grace, which is not due, precedes [good works], that they may be done” (Canons on grace 19 [A.D. 529]).
Peace, Carlan
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guanophore
Guest
In the future you might want to consider only starting enough threads that you are able to follow.
I don’t think it makes much sense for you to keep up with the posts in this thread anyway. The overwhelming response to your attempts to get Catholics to leave their faith behind has been that this is not possible.
It makes sense that you are spending more time over on Facebook with your “ecumenical” discussion that has “more Catholics joining every day”. It is much more likely that you will find some hapless Catholics outside CAF that are susceptible to being lured into abandoning the doctrines of their faith so as to join in a movement that gives the appearance of unity.
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