Do we really want another 500 years of division between Catholics and Protestants?

[joe370]

Do they attend an independent Baptist Church? Some Protestants and some Catholics are way too narrow.

One belongs to a Lutheran church and the others belong to different evangelical churches, and they all, sadly, hate the CC.

 

[Christian_Unity]

True, however, one couldn’t reject something like the sacrifice of the Mass and expect to be welcomed into the church with open arms; you know what I mean?

I don’t think anybody is pushing for unity in which the different communities will attend and worship at each other’s churches.

 

[joe370]

Some Protestants and some Catholics are way too narrow.

Totally agree.

 

[joe370]

I don’t think anybody is pushing for unity in which the different communities will attend and worship at each other’s churches.

I agree.

 

[CopticChristian]

Unity doesn’t mean you have to give up your beliefs. It is more about understanding and respecting the other camps beliefs, yet holding on to your own theological distinctive which makes you Catholic, or whatever Christian circle you identify with. I’ve seen pictures of Civil Rights marching with Catholics and Protestants side by side. I think John 17 is not so much about social issues unity, but rather it is unity about the gospel and the Christian message to the unbelieving world.

CU,

You confuse acting together for the common good and uniting in Love or Charity…while Christians share Faith, Hope and Charity…and the greatest is Charity…to be charitable does not equate to unity…

Tim Tebow’s father is practicing Charity, in the Phillipines, converting Catholics to Protestant thought…

 

[CopticChristian]

There were Catholic leaders and Evangelical leaders who were for it. There were Catholic leaders and Evangelicals leaders who were against it. From a Protestant perspective, those Evangelical leaders who opposed it believed the documents only comprised the Protestant side of things… believing it was a sellout of the Reformation. In both camps, you will find militants who oppose any kind of unity… unwilling to compromise an inch.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelicals_and_Catholics_Together

firstthings.com/article/2007/01/evangelicals–catholics-together-the-christian-mission-in-the-third-millennium-2

CU,

Outline for me the compromise you believe is possible.

Tell me if you have read Moby Dick.

 

[Christian_Unity]

CU,

Outline for me the compromise you believe is possible.

Tell me if you have read Moby Dick.

Have you studied Evangelicals and Catholics Together 1, Evangelicals and Catholics Together 2, and the Joint Declaration on Justification by Catholics and Lutherans documents? Those would be good sources to build and continue a unity movement. All three sources can be found on the Internet. Here is another book to consider too on the topic:

amazon.com/Evangelicals-Catholics-Together-Toward-Mission/dp/0849938600/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1355294755&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=evangelicas+and+catholics+together

 

[CopticChristian]

Have you studied Evangelicals and Catholics Together 1, Evangelicals and Catholics Together 2, and the Joint Declaration on Justification by Catholics and Lutherans documents? Those would be good sources to build and continue a unity movement. All three sources can be found on the Internet. Here is another book to consider too on the topic:

amazon.com/Evangelicals-Catholics-Together-Toward-Mission/dp/0849938600/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1355294755&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=evangelicas+and+catholics+together

CU,

You cannot establish any notion of unity by answering a question with a question. I asked you to outline for me the compromises.

I asked you if you have read Moby Dick.

Read the Calvinist Response by James White…

The framers of ECT have done a disservice, first and foremost to the gospel of Christ, and secondarily to their communities. We call upon such men as Charles Colson, Richard Land, Larry Lewis, Richard Mouw, John White, and especially J.I. Packer, to rethink their position, and withdraw their support from a document that can do nothing more than cause confusion and “give aid and comfort to the enemies of the cause of Christ.” We call upon these men to place the gospel in the first place in their priorities , and so to order all other priorities under the Lordship of Christ by so doing. And we call all Christians to consider again the truth that the power of God, which we long to see at work in our nation, is found in the preaching of the cross of Christ, not in compromise with those who would replace God’s all sufficient grace with a system of merit and works.

 

[Paddy_Walker]

Do we really want another 500 years of division between Catholics and Protestants?

No.
I think protestants should return to their Catholic Faith.

 

[CopticChristian]

Have you studied Evangelicals and Catholics Together 1, Evangelicals and Catholics Together 2, and the Joint Declaration on Justification by Catholics and Lutherans documents? Those would be good sources to build and continue a unity movement. All three sources can be found on the Internet. Here is another book to consider too on the topic:

amazon.com/Evangelicals-Catholics-Together-Toward-Mission/dp/0849938600/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1355294755&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=evangelicas+and+catholics+together

CU,

I admire the elements of thought you suggest however I do not admire your postings teaching and preaching.

I believe that your motives potentially have merit however while you post and start threads you fail to look at reality.

I see and feel that there may be thoughts that bear consideration and I know within your mind there are elements at war. This is the only reason you cannot answer…

Guanaphore…when was Cornelius regenerated?

and

Did you read Moby Dick?

The Protestant world at once united in a common purpose to replace and destroy the OHCAC has failed…and in time in the aftermath there is considerable progress such that we see Calvinism propsering at the onset in countries where it commenced having failed to the point that Calvinism believing it would dominate is nothing more than a fly on a horses tail that will persist in urging those that realize the evil of that thought to take recognition that Calvinists persist in distraught thinking…the Arminians that were declared to be Heretics at the Synod of Dort to suggest they should disappear now dominate Protestant thought…nothing need be done except observe the inter-Protestant dialogue of Protestants calling each other heretics…in that vain where there is disunity where do you see unity?

 

[LEMAITRE]

Please stop looking at things from your perspective, then.

Step back, and look at Christianity objectively. Regardless of what any of us actually believes to be true, we are really and truly separated from each other. **Some Christians don’t believe baptism is necessary for salvation. Some believe it is all that’s necessary. Some think a confession of faith and baptism are necessary. Some believe the Eucharist is only a symbol. Some believe Christ is really present in spirit. Some believe he is present in more than that in the Eucharist. Some think the Sabbath is the real day of worship. Some don’t think you need to go to church at all. Some think reading your Bible is enough, without any communion at all. Some think you can just believe and you will be saved. Some think works play some kind of role. **

We’re a lot more fragmented than simply belonging under a different banner. Why do you think people leave the churches they grew up in and go found their own, or join another? Because they think different things from the rest of their congregation. Who is to say what issues are important and what aren’t? Aren’t you just imposing your unauthoritative view on others who believe these differences are much more important than you think?

I hope I am not coming off militant, but the objective truth is that we’re not ready to be reunited. Protestants especially have to figure out what teachings are true and which are important. Every Protestant will have their opinions, but all Protestants together have no united opinion.

 

[LEMAITRE]

Do we really want another 500 years of division between Catholics and Protestants?

No.
I think protestants should return to their Catholic Faith.

 

[CatherineOH]

Do we really want another 500 years of division between Catholics and Protestants?

No.
I think protestants should return to their Catholic Faith.

I’m not being flippant.
However, it strikes me that you’d have better luck asking those of the North American continent to return their allegiance to the original countries of France, Spain and England.

To most you would be asking them do do just about the same thing. It isn’t a matter of returning to Jesus. It is a matter of returning to a political entity to them. Most do not see it as being more than that.

 

[Christian_Unity]

CU,

You cannot establish any notion of unity by answering a question with a question. I asked you to outline for me the compromises.

I asked you if you have read Moby Dick.

Read the Calvinist Response by James White…

I am very familar with the responses of Evangelicals like James White, RC Sproul, John MacArthur, and other Evangelicals leaders to those solid Evangelicals who promoted ECT 1 and ECT 2. As I posted, there were Evangelicals and Catholics who were for it, and there were Evangelicals and Catholics who were against it… very similar to what is going on here.

Some of the more significant Evangelical Calvinists who supported ECT 1 include JI Packer and Charles Colson. Here is a classic book by JI Packer who is a staunch Reformed theologian. I also believe CS Lewis was quite ecumenical with the Catholic Faith too. My point: JI Packer is no lightweight.

amazon.com/Knowing-God-J-I-Packer/dp/0830816518/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1355327706&sr=8-1&keywords=knowing+god

 

[Christian_Unity]

I’m not being flippant.
However, it strikes me that you’d have better luck asking those of the North American continent to return their allegiance to the original countries of France, Spain and England.

To most you would be asking them do do just about the same thing. It isn’t a matter of returning to Jesus. It is a matter of returning to a political entity to them. Most do not see it as being more than that.

Very wise and insightful post sister!

 

[Christian_Unity]

Do we really want another 500 years of division between Catholics and Protestants?

No.
I think protestants should return to their Catholic Faith.

We were not around 500 years ago. Many of us Protestants were not born into a Catholic family; therefore, how can we return to the Catholic Faith in which we were never part of in the first place? It is my understanding since I was never Catholic, that the curses of the Council of Trent do not apply to me, correct? I started my Christian life at 18 by attending Calvary Chapel (non-denominational); they consider themselves neither Protestant nor Catholic.

 

[Christian_Unity]

CU,

You confuse acting together for the common good and uniting in Love or Charity…while Christians share Faith, Hope and Charity…and the greatest is Charity…to be charitable does not equate to unity…

Tim Tebow’s father is practicing Charity, in the Phillipines, converting Catholics to Protestant thought…

What does Tim Tebow’s father have to do with it? Proselytizing between Catholics and Protestants happens all the time… Protestants trying to convert Catholics… and Catholics trying to convert Protestants. On this non-Catholic section, the Catholics on here seem to be proselytizing all of the Protestants on here. In reality, you will always have Christians switching between all the three major branches of Christianity according to their conscience before God. I don’t think Christians are apostate or heretical if they stay within churches that embrace the truths found in the Apostles Creed and Nicene Creed.

 

[CatherineOH]

We were not around 500 years ago. Many of us Protestants were not born into a Catholic family; therefore, how can we return to the Catholic Faith in which we were never part of in the first place? It is my understanding since I was never Catholic, that the curses of the Council of Trent do not apply to me, correct? I started my Christian life at 18 by attending Calvary Chapel (non-denominational); they consider themselves neither Protestant nor Catholic.

I’m the same in many ways. I started as a Lutheran (High Lutheran) and still pray a pre-trent rosary as used by Martin Luther himself till the day he died. I also went to confession prior to entering the Catholic church…Yes, some Lutherans have confession. So do some Anglicans.

… I don’t think Christians are apostate or heretical if they stay within churches that embrace the truths found in the Apostles Creed and Nicene Creed.

AMEN

 

[robwar]

Thanks for sharing staunch Catholic theology. I know of other Catholics who do not take this stance. Let’s go back to the thread topic, and discuss movement toward the unity called by John 17. It is not even worth discussing if you would expect all non-Catholics to become Catholics to move toward unity. When the Pope spoke positively about Martin Luther and faith alone, then that’s movement toward Christian unity. When Catholics promoted ECT 1 and ECT 2, that’s also movement toward unity. When certain Catholics and Lutherans signed the Joint Declaration on justification, then that’s a movement toward Christian unity. How can we move toward additional unity as siblings in Christ who understand some of these issues very differently?

I support Catholic theology and not what “other Catholics” who don’t take this stance. It is not what we read or think in our limited understanding and experience. The Joint statement of Faith and work which you seem to want to promote was not at all supported by all Lutherans and in fact a number of Lutherans saw it correctly, a capitulation away from what Luther actually taught to what the Catholic Church teaches. I am not sure what you mean or can even quote the Pope speaking positively about Martin Luther and faith alone. Like you said, is was only certain Catholics and Lutherans that signed that declaration and there are many more Lutherans that did not support it and saw it correctly for what it was.
The unity you are trying to promote here is a Catholic capitulation of what the Catholic Church teaches on a number of things. No matter what “open minded” Catholics you think that you are finding, the magisterium is not going to change. Working together with other Christians already goes on in so many areas and all you have to do is involve yourself in some local join effort to see this. About the evangelical effort, I am not sure how far that can even go because the Catholic Church has a sacramental view and evangelicals do not. They may share common conservative values such as pro-life but it doesn’t really go further than that. In fact, pro-life Protestants look to and use the Catholic Church and it’s historic teaching for support and not visa versa. Why don’t you read the CCC again, Church history again and try to educate yourself on why the Church teaches what it teachers instead of just reading your Bible along and coming up with your own and limited understanding and wondering why Catholics don’t jump on board.

 

[Christian_Unity]

CU,

I admire the elements of thought you suggest however I do not admire your postings teaching and preaching.

I believe that your motives potentially have merit however while you post and start threads you fail to look at reality.

I see and feel that there may be thoughts that bear consideration and I know within your mind there are elements at war. This is the only reason you cannot answer…

Guanaphore…when was Cornelius regenerated?

and

Did you read Moby Dick?

The Protestant world at once united in a common purpose to replace and destroy the OHCAC has failed…and in time in the aftermath there is considerable progress such that we see Calvinism propsering at the onset in countries where it commenced having failed to the point that Calvinism believing it would dominate is nothing more than a fly on a horses tail that will persist in urging those that realize the evil of that thought to take recognition that Calvinists persist in distraught thinking…the Arminians that were declared to be Heretics at the Synod of Dort to suggest they should disappear now dominate Protestant thought…nothing need be done except observe the inter-Protestant dialogue of Protestants calling each other heretics…in that vain where there is disunity where do you see unity?

It is time for Christendom to learn from the past and promote Christian unity between Christian branches and denomination that historically fought each other in the heretic wars. Internet communication is the perfect tool to promote unity within orthodox essentials as framed within the Apostles Creed and Nicene Creed. We don’t have to be in bondage from what happend in the past, rather let’s learn from it as we move forward as a body of Christ.