Do we really want another 500 years of division between Catholics and Protestants?

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And lastly, and this is my own personal opinion The Catholic Church reminds me too much of Mormonism for me to be happy there.
I sincerely hope that, as you learn more about the CC, this opinion will change, but even if not, the goal is to be united with Christ, and not our personal “happiness”. We are called to be members one of another, and to grow with one another. However we may be “reminded” of things that seem objectionable, it is our duty to feed and nourish the Church, just as Jesus did.
 
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Our good Catholic friends haven't quite abandoned the idea that man plays a part in his salvation - it's been diminished but it's still there.
I am curious to learn what “part” this might be. Can you explain?
 
It seems to me if Catholics were clear what was the actual “Deposit of Faith”, there would not be a need for Catholic Answers Forums. It is because Catholics are confused to what are official teaching of the Church, we have sites like CAF.
I think that CA does serve a great many poorly catechized and rebellious Catholics to educate them about the Teachings of Jesus protected infallibly in the once for all Deposit of Faith. However, even if all these were addressed, there would still be a need to provide answers for our separated brethren. Ignorance and rebellion are not confined to lapsed Catholics. 😉

Or do you think there should be no more reason for monergism.com either?
 
Here’s an article by Peter Kreeft that I think is relevant to the topic:
The Nature of the Church
PETER KREEFT
One thing we can do to help is to understand our Protestant “separated brethren”. This task involves understanding how they understand us, or misunderstand us. The
The umbrella issue that separates us, under which the other issues stand, is the nature and authority of the Church, for all the things that Catholics believe in that Protestants don’t (e.g., the seven sacraments, transubstantiation, praying to saints, Mary’s Immaculate Conception and Assumption, papal infallibility), Catholics believe in because of the teaching authority of the Church. What is the Church, as taught in Scripture, and what is the basis of our disagreement with Protestants over its nature?
I was a Protestant (Dutch Reformed) for the first twenty-one years of my life. Becoming a Catholic was one of the two best things I ever did — that, and marrying the greatest woman in the world. Yet, I have never lost my respect and affection for the faith of my Protestant friends. This part of the book is designed to help Catholics understand the most serious Protestant objections to Catholicism and to answer them.
catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0091.html
 
You say that it is a “problem” that persons claiming to be Catholic do not accept the Catholic faith.
Speaking only for myself and my limited understanding, I would say the problem is thus:

Catholic Church teaching here in the Pacific Northwest was so lackluster in the 1970’s and 80’s, and so apparently approving of far-far-left politicians that I didn’t even consider the Catholic church a a viable place to worship let alone raise a family in faith.

Thankfully this has changed here - the new Archbishop is cleaning house.
 
I know exactly what you are talking about…there was so much emphasis on living the Gospel and being filled with the Holy Spirit…but there was no balance with orthodoxy…the right way of being.

My restoration came about when I moved across town, and the old but wisened priest told me they used the Baltimore Catechism along with the Sisters of St. Paul catechesis…plus daily Mass was available - before school -, so the church looked like Sunday Mass. The parish was truly of one mind and heart and we all felt it, and like, we already understood each other.

I was not good in quoting catechism, but I always remembered the faces of sin, cartoons of old guys with all these different expressions, the face of pride most easily recognized.’

Those faces and the consequences of mortal sin and going to hell were what kept me out of most trouble in college. My parents called me every weekend to see how I was doing for about 4 years, so that helped, too.

The other problem is that in some places it was like sin was no longer a sin, and then they started wanted to change the big T traditions. My grandmother told me to stay put, but to keep my eyes on God in the Word and Sacraments and do not skip Mass…

It all worked out.
 
How am I supposed to catch up with all of these posts? Did we figure a way how to unite Catholics and Protestants? Can someone give me an update in a nutshell on this thread? I’ve been busy on the ecumencial Christian Fellowship Facebook site, and more and more Catholics are participating every day.

http://www.vaticanassassins.org/wp-...her-King-with-another-priest_1960-300x148.jpg
CU,

You might consider the Oriental Orthodox and the Eastern Orthodox and uniting in worship in the Eucharist…that is a start…👍
 
How am I supposed to catch up with all of these posts? Did we figure a way how to unite Catholics and Protestants? Can someone give me an update in a nutshell on this thread? I’ve been busy on the ecumencial Christian Fellowship Facebook site, and more and more Catholics are participating every day.
Well the Baptists agreed not to call Catholics Papists and they now believe in the Real Presence.

The Evangelicals are moving out of auditoriums for their faith services and are bringing in candles, holy water and kneelers.

The Lutherans, well most of them at least are learning Latin.

The Mormons now drink coffee and enjoy it extra hot. They also found out about chocolate covered coffee beans and have them with breakfast.

And the Catholics…we’re watching it all happily.
 
I thought we agreed to leave the Baptists out of it because they refuse to acknowledge 1 another in the liquor store. And man, Latin is hard
 
I thought we agreed to leave the Baptist out of it because they refuse to acknowledge 1 another in the liquor store. And man, Latin is hard
Bat,

Could not help myself…found a joke, and the guy who wrote it…

guardian.co.uk/stage/2005/sep/29/comedy.religion
Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, “Don’t do it!” He said, “Nobody loves me.” I said, “God loves you. Do you believe in God?”
He said, “Yes.” I said, “Are you a Christian or a Jew?” He said, “A Christian.” I said, “Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?” He said, “Protestant.” I said, “Me, too! What franchise?” He said, “Baptist.” I said, “Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?” He said, “Northern Baptist.” I said, “Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?”
He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist.” I said, “Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?” He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region.” I said, “Me, too!”
Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912.” I said, “Die, heretic!” And I pushed him over.
a pause for intermission…

bless all Baptists…🙂
 
Love it!😃
Oh and for CU, in case you missed it:
Áve María, grátia pléna, Dóminus técum; benedícta tu in muliéribus, et benedíctus frúctus véntris túi, Jésus.
Mi Jésu, indúlge peccáta nóstra, consérva nos ab ígne inférni, duc ómnes ad cáeli glóriam, præcípue túa misericórdia egéntes.:highprayer::signofcross:
 
I am curious to learn what “part” this might be. Can you explain?
Ok, I freely admit that I’m going to give you a horrible answer and I hope JonNC comes and saves me.

As I understand it, Lutherans usually say that it is God who finds us and saves us. For us, the idea that we have any part in our initial salvation seem far fetched - we say we should be gratified at that God has moved us in his direction.

The idea being that we have no free will for things that are above us (salvation), but we do have free will for things below us (choosing what pie to eat for dessert) - and if we have free will, we only have just enough free will to rebel against salvation.

As I understand it, the Catholic church teaches, in certain respect, that man cooperates with his salvation from the start - that it’s his joyous free will walks him into church to be freely baptized.

Now… I’m a prideful bugger from the start, so the Lutheran view goes against my nature. If left to my own wits, I would be in (what I think is) the Catholic camp.I don’t like the idea that I didn’t find God. I want to think that I presented myself to him for his love. But the Lutheran understanding also frees me from stressing about why I didn’t find God earlier, and oddly, it frees me from having to worry about why other people are not Christian and if God will save them - it is his will, and such a kind and loving will at that, that he chose to offer me salvation that I don’t fear for those that aren’t obviously Christian.

Again, I crave your understanding in that I’m most likely I’m wrong in this.
 
CU,

You might consider the Oriental Orthodox and the Eastern Orthodox and uniting in worship in the Eucharist…that is a start…👍
And if you need a steeping stone… you can sojourn in the Lutheran church for a while on your journey.

I would say on a personal level the best change you could make is to join a church that confesses the mystery of the Eucharist. Whenever my brain doubts, it is this holy mystery that makes my soul reflect, and I am whole for a time.
 
And if you need a steeping stone… you can sojourn in the Lutheran church for a while on your journey.

I would say on a personal level the best change you could make is to join a church that confesses the mystery of the Eucharist. Whenever my brain doubts, it is this holy mystery that makes my soul reflect, and I am whole for a time.
👍
 
How am I supposed to catch up with all of these posts? Did we figure a way how to unite Catholics and Protestants? Can someone give me an update in a nutshell on this thread?
Unity in the Body of Christ is a natural fruit of adnerance to the Truth. All those who are united to Christ are united to one another. Those who are attached to things falling short of the Truth will have an imperfect unity.
 
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  Ok, I freely admit that I'm going to give you a horrible answer and I hope JonNC comes and saves me.
As I understand it, Lutherans usually say that it is God who finds us and saves us. For us, the idea that we have any part in our initial salvation seem far fetched - we say we should be gratified at that God has moved us in his direction.
In this matter the Lutheran communion has retained Catholic teaching.

But we believe that the Apostles taught we are born again of water and Spirit in baptism. I think that we all agree that an infant cannot do anything to help themselves be born again in baptism. We call this “initial justiication” because it is the point at which we initially enter a right relationship with God. This is also called a state of grace.

With regard to an adult, the Church teaches that we are called and moved by grace to turn to Him. This is called “prevenient” grace (that which comes before salvation). There is nothing we do to earn or merit such grace, but if we respond to it, we can be brought by it to enter a state of grace through baptism and the obedience of faith. Yes, we are grateful that God moves us in this direction.
The idea being that we have no free will for things that are above us (salvation), but we do have free will for things below us (choosing what pie to eat for dessert) - and if we have free will, we only have just enough free will to rebel against salvation.
We believe that the Apostles did teach that we have free will, and that we most certainly can rebel against salvation. We believe that God desires all to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the Truth, and that we are all called to repent from our sins and obey the Gospel. God gives everyone sufficient grace to come to this point.
As I understand it, the Catholic church teaches, in certain respect, that man cooperates with his salvation from the start - that it’s his joyous free will walks him into church to be freely baptized.
No, this is not consistent with Catholic doctrine. I think this issue is well addressed in the Joint Declaration.

No one can come to Christ unless the Father draws them.

2010 Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification at the beginning of conversion.
Now… I’m a prideful bugger from the start, so the Lutheran view goes against my nature. If left to my own wits, I would be in (what I think is) the Catholic camp.I don’t like the idea that I didn’t find God. I want to think that I presented myself to him for his love. But the Lutheran understanding also frees me from stressing about why I didn’t find God earlier, and oddly, it frees me from having to worry about why other people are not Christian and if God will save them - it is his will, and such a kind and loving will at that, that he chose to offer me salvation that I don’t fear for those that aren’t obviously Christian.
It seems that it is human nature to want to be somehow self suffiency.

1 Cor 4:7
What have you that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if it were not a gift?
Again, I crave your understanding in that I’m most likely I’m wrong in this.
We may have a different understanding of the consequences of original sin. We believe the Apostles taught that we were created in the Divine image, and that this image was wounded as a result of the Fall. Humanity was left seeking and longing for God, but unable to
return to a right relationship with Him without His grace.
 
No, this is not consistent with Catholic doctrine. I think this issue is well addressed in the Joint Declaration.

No one can come to Christ unless the Father draws them.
Correct me if I’m wrong (any Lutheran jump in here too, because I’m way out of my depth)

I think our churches agree that God’s calls us to repentance, and that we receive his grace without merit, but I think the subtle difference is that the Catholic church teaches that man may reject this grace by the free will given by God. Lutherans say that we lack the ability to reject God’s grace even with our free will (such that it is) - though we do say we can turn eventually away from that grace if we’re stubborn.

As I understand the Joint Deceleration, we almost come to the same exact point. And I’ll fully confess, if I’m understanding the LCMS objections correctly, that we’re being a bit of a stick in the mud. Even if my poor understanding of Catholic teaching were correct, we’re talking about a real corner-case and frankly nothing that that should prohibit reconciliation.
 
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