Do we sin when not loving God as much as we can?

[JRKH]

Loving God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength is not an act of worship?

Such love is indeed an act of worship. But this act does not necessarily require that one is consciously thinking of God at all times. The state of being that is Love will come through whether one is conscious of it or not.

Do you agree that loving God with all our mind and all our strength implies an active, ongoing state-of-mind?

STATE of mind - yes…but as mentioned above - this does not equate to a need to be consciously thinking about God at all times.

I Loved my dear wife with all my might and provided for her, watched over her and cared for her right up to the day of her death. Yet - even though everything that I did was geared to making her happy, content, cared for and loved - even for all of that, I can say that I did not consciously think about her every waking moment.
Does that mean I loved her imperfectly?
No it does not…For Love - the state of love - is not about the conscious state. It is about the deep underlying state of being where this other person is more important than yourself.
Certainly such love comes often to the consciousness…it cannot help but do so…but that is not what Love is about.

So it is with Loving God. It is the deep underlying state of one’s being. That Love of God, making God more important than one’s self, influences everything we do - and wherever we do it.
Take the example of attending a football game…
One goes to the game and enjoys the action on the field, but one does not act in an unchristian way…why? Because that is not part of the nature of one who Loves God above all else. One can enjoy the competition, the action, can avoid shouting oaths or obscenities, can say a quick prayer of protection for anyone who gets hurt etc…all because one loves God above all else.

In short - acting in a charitable manner in ANY situation - without conscious thought - is the mark of one who Loves God above all else.

Sorry to ramble…

Hope this helps.

Peace
James

 

[Robert_Sock]

Such love is indeed an act of worship. But this act does not necessarily require that one is consciously thinking of God at all times. The state of being that is Love will come through whether one is conscious of it or not.

STATE of mind - yes…but as mentioned above - this does not equate to a need to be consciously thinking about God at all times.

I Loved my dear wife with all my might and provided for her, watched over her and cared for her right up to the day of her death. Yet - even though everything that I did was geared to making her happy, content, cared for and loved - even for all of that, I can say that I did not consciously think about her every waking moment.
Does that mean I loved her imperfectly?
No it does not…For Love - the state of love - is not about the conscious state. It is about the deep underlying state of being where this other person is more important than yourself.
Certainly such love comes often to the consciousness…it cannot help but do so…but that is not what Love is about.

So it is with Loving God. It is the deep underlying state of one’s being. That Love of God, making God more important than one’s self, influences everything we do - and wherever we do it.
Take the example of attending a football game…
One goes to the game and enjoys the action on the field, but one does not act in an unchristian way…why? Because that is not part of the nature of one who Loves God above all else. One can enjoy the competition, the action, can avoid shouting oaths or obscenities, can say a quick prayer of protection for anyone who gets hurt etc…all because one loves God above all else.

In short - acting in a charitable manner in ANY situation - without conscious thought - is the mark of one who Loves God above all else.

Sorry to ramble…

Hope this helps.

Peace
James

I believe that the difference in our view is that you’re treating this love to exist passively, while I contend that it’s active. Say that our love for God should be done with all our strength, implies that it must be active.

LOVE!

 

[JRKH]

I believe that the difference in our view is that you’re treating this love to exist passively, while I contend that it’s active. Say that our love for God should be done with all our strength, implies that it must be active.

LOVE!

Why would you think I advocate a passive love?

Did I not say that this Love should and would influence our every action?

Are you suggesting that the love I described for my wife was a passive love?

No sir - there is nothing passive in the Love that we are called to.

Peace
James

 

[Robert_Sock]

Why would you think I advocate a passive love?

Did I not say that this Love should and would influence our every action?

Are you suggesting that the love I described for my wife was a passive love?

No sir - there is nothing passive in the Love that we are called to.

Peace
James

It’s passive to the degree it’s out of our immediate awareness. Your love is active to the degree that you are consciously aware of it.

LOVE!

 

[JRKH]

It’s passive to the degree it’s out of our immediate awareness. Your love is active to the degree that you are consciously aware of it.

LOVE!

So - if this love of God and neighbor influences everything we do - is it EVER outside of our immediate awareness?

I will allow that there are times when I am not consciously - intellectually - aware of it…but in so far as my being, my actions, my thoughts…all of these are guided by my Love for God…this is (to the extent I am able to embrace it, and by God’s gracious grace) the very core of my being…

It is like breathing…we must breathe to live - it is part of our core being…but do we have to be consciously aware of it at all times for it to be active?

Peace
James

 

[thistle]

I agree with most of what you said, however, I believe it is a righteous sacrifice to do away with as many distractions in this life as possible to focus more clearly on God.** Using our spare time to go to a football game or watching TV instead of worshiping God, is folly, if not a sin. With our attention fixed on football, we are not worshiping God in the here and now; in a sense, we are worshiping football, a false idol.** We are all sinners because we all fall short in our worship of God. I’ve given up football and TV, but now I’m addicted to the Internet, but I try hard to always keep a part of my mind on God.

LOVE!

That is absolute nonsense. You had better tell the Pope and all the clergy they cannot have any leisure time otherwise they are are sinning or committing acts off folly.

 

[Robert_Sock]

That is absolute nonsense. You had better tell the Pope and all the clergy they cannot have any leisure time otherwise they are are sinning or committing acts off folly.

You sound a little annoyed that I would think this. Why?

What does loving God with all your mind and all your strength mean to you? Can you truly do this was deeply involved in a football game?

Could it be that God wants different things from different people? I’m not listening to my conscience correctly?

LOVE!

 

[JRKH]

You sound a little annoyed that I would think this. Why?

I cannot speak for thistle…but will offer my thoughts…
We can become a bit annoyed when others make the kind of sweeping comments that you have.
You stated that watching TV was Folly if not sinful… I pointed out that one could watch the mass on TV and asked if this was folly…your reply was “picky picky”…
Perhaps that comment was meant to show that you are using hyperbole…but you have not said that you are and we are closing in on 50 posts on this thread. So we assume that you are quite serious in making these comments.

and all your strength mean to you?
I’ve already offered my views on this - Thistle can share his/hers

Can you truly do this was deeply involved in a football game?

Yes

Could it be that God wants different things from different people?

Absolutely - but then, that being the case, it is wrong to make the blanket statement that watching football or watching TV is sinful or at least a folly…It may be for you - but not in general…

I’m not listening to my conscience correctly?

Can’t say for sure…That is best addressed face to face with your spiritual counselor.

Peace
James

[/QUOTE]

 

[Robert_Sock]

Can’t say for sure…That is best addressed face to face with your spiritual counselor.

Peace
James

If you don’t agree that what I’m doing is sinful, then just think of it as a righteous sacrifice to bring myself closer into the loving arms of God. I encourage everyone to follow suit.

Far too many of us are pleasure seekers, seeking worldly pleasures.

LOVE!

 

[JRKH]

If you don’t agree that what I’m doing is sinful, then just think of it as a righteous sacrifice to bring myself closer into the loving arms of God.

Righteous sacrifice is a good thing. But giving up something that is sinful is not sacrifice it is repentance. Giving up something that is permissible is a sacrifice.
Now - if you are giving up football or TV because you believe those things to be sinful…then you are “repenting” of a sin…
However, the Church does not teach that watching football or TV are sinful activities - so you declaring them as such is an error. It is this error that we have tried to point out to you.

So -
Sacrificing watching football and TV (permissible activities) in order to draw closer to God =
Declaring these things to be sinful - which the Church does not do = teaching error…not good.:tsktsk:

Peace
James

 

[Robert_Sock]

Righteous sacrifice is a good thing. But giving up something that is sinful is not sacrifice it is repentance. Giving up something that is permissible is a sacrifice.
Now - if you are giving up football or TV because you believe those things to be sinful…then you are “repenting” of a sin…
However, the Church does not teach that watching football or TV are sinful activities - so you declaring them as such is an error. It is this error that we have tried to point out to you.

So -
Sacrificing watching football and TV (permissible activities) in order to draw closer to God =
Declaring these things to be sinful - which the Church does not do = teaching error…not good.:tsktsk:

Peace
James

I really doubt that the Church would call it sinful, but again, I feel that it is a sin in my case because it’s God’s will for me.

LOVE!

 

[JRKH]

I really doubt that the Church would call it sinful, but again, I feel that it is a sin in my case because it’s God’s will for me.

LOVE!

And this is the thing that I feel you need to address with a good confessor / spiritual adviser.

You should most definitely NOT come on a public forum and make sweeping comments about these things being sinful.

I’d like to get back to something we were discussing earlier…in posts 44 and 45. I would really like to hear your thoughts on my post #45.

Peace
James

 

[christofirst]

This thread reminds me of the story from the Desert Fathers. It goes something like this (I’m sure you’ve all heard it before): A hunters sees a group of monks relaxing and enjoying some leisure time in the forest, and he is scandalized since they are apparently not “loving God as much as they can.” He complains to the abbot, who asks him to stretch his bow and shoot an arrow, which he does. The abbot then asks the hunter to shoot an arrow again and again, over and over, and the hunters exclaims, “If I constantly strain my bow like this, it will surely break!” "So it is with my monks, " replied the wise abbot, understanding that even “spiritual athletes” need some rest and relaxation (end of story).

And who is to say that these monks are not loving God in their fellow man through their leisurely companionship with one another. This idea of shunning all of life’s activities that are not explicitly religious (like a football game) sounds like overemphasizing God’s “Otherness”, while denying God “In all things”. The fact the St. Paul uses the metaphor of “running the race” and “winning the crown” to describe our spiritual life indicates he was certainly aware of, and maybe even enjoyed seeing, the sporting events of his day; yet St. Paul certainly loved God as much as he could.

 

[JRKH]

This thread reminds me of the story from the Desert Fathers. It goes something like this (I’m sure you’ve all heard it before): A hunters sees a group of monks relaxing and enjoying some leisure time in the forest, and he is scandalized since they are apparently not “loving God as much as they can.” He complains to the abbot, who asks him to stretch his bow and shoot an arrow, which he does. The abbot then asks the hunter to shoot an arrow again and again, over and over, and the hunters exclaims, “If I constantly strain my bow like this, it will surely break!” "So it is with my monks, " replied the wise abbot, understanding that even “spiritual athletes” need some rest and relaxation (end of story).

And who is to say that these monks are not loving God in their fellow man through their leisurely companionship with one another. This idea of shunning all of life’s activities that are not explicitly religious (like a football game) sounds like overemphasizing God’s “Otherness”, while denying God “In all things”. The fact the St. Paul uses the metaphor of “running the race” and “winning the crown” to describe our spiritual life indicates he was certainly aware of, and maybe even enjoyed seeing, the sporting events of his day; yet St. Paul certainly loved God as much as he could.

Excellent - - I Love this…

Peace
James

 

[Robert_Sock]

Is it a sin not to do the will of God? Again, I feel that God’s will for me is that I make as big an effort as possible to keep Him in the forefront of my mind as much as I can.

LOVE!

 

[JRKH]

Is it a sin not to do the will of God? Again, I feel that God’s will for me is that I make as big an effort as possible to keep Him in the forefront of my mind as much as I can.

LOVE!

Was this intended as a reply to my post #45?

Peace
James

 

[Robert_Sock]

Was this intended as a reply to my post #45?

Peace
James

I cannot really comment on your post 45, but I contend that God’s will is often different between us. Not trying to keep God in the forefront of your mind may not be God’s will in your case; I will not judge. But I’ll always try and obey what I hear God telling me. It’s a real struggle, especially when God withdraws His grace and I feel spiritual dryness, but everyday I struggle to reach higher, and I offer all my struggles to God.

LOVE!

 

[christofirst]

So let’s refine the question. Do we (people in general) not love God as much as we can when we watch a football game? Not necessarily, and I would say in most cases not at all. But for me (in particular), could watching football become an occasion of sin? Of course, if I do it to the exclusion of my responsibilities, or ogle the cheerleaders, or let the suggestive commercials (if I’m watching on TV) rob me of my peace. Then I would want to avoid the game, or better yet, examine why I feel the need for constant escape, or why I objectify women, or why I let my guard down when faced with tempting commercials. If I (or you, Robert) decide it is in my best interest to avoid watching football (and I do not watch football - I don’t even have a TV!), and I used that time to give glory to God in some other way, wonderful! But to make a blanket statement for everyone about watching football, and sin, and not loving God, that would not be right.

 

[JRKH]

I cannot really comment on your post 45,

Why not? I ask a straight forward question that is directly based on a comment you made…

Peace
James

 

[Robert_Sock]

Why not? I ask a straight forward question that is directly based on a comment you made…

Peace
James

I read it several times now, and I still do not understand the question. If you re-phrase it, I’ll be happy to give it another shot.

LOVE!