Do we sin when not loving God as much as we can?

[JRKH]

I’m still experiencing cognitive dissonance by what I’m hearing. The commandment seem so plain to me, and it sounds like something we all fall short of, but I never really hear Catholics talking about.

I hear Catholics talk about it a lot…Pretty much every thread on CAF is addressing the issue of not loving God enough in one form or another.

If we were living in exile from a fellow human who we loved dearly, we would probably rarely take our minds off of them, and we would live in constant sorrow, longing for the day we could be reunited.

Actually I DO live in exile from someone I love dearly…In fact several people. But you are wrong about my rarely taking our minds off of them. Yes I think of them often. Yes they are always in my heart…Yes I long to see them again…but The are not constantly on my conscious mind.

Yet God is commanding us to love Him even more!

Yes - and yet you continue to conflate loving God with thinking about God…

Beware of worldly pleasures that distract us from this extremely deep love.

The twelve Fruits of the Holy Spirit are charity (or love), joy, peace, patience, benignity (or kindness), goodness, longanimity (or long suffering), mildness, faith, modesty, continency, and chastity. These fruits are all we should be striving for, not worldly pleasures that come from the mundane, like sex and football. The warnings about enjoying worldly pleasures are alluded to throughout The Imitation of Christ, and I believe we should avoid them like the plague. “For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.”

LOVE!

Agreed - but worldly pleasures, properly understood and enjoyed within the LOve of God are fine.

Peace
James

 

[Robert_Sock]

Agreed - but worldly pleasures, properly understood and enjoyed within the LOve of God are fine.

Peace
James

WHY do you look for rest, since you are born to work? Dispose yourself to patience rather than comfort, and to the carrying of the cross rather than pleasure. What man of the world would not gladly receive spiritual comfort and joy, if he were sure of retaining it? **For spiritual comfort surpasses all worldly delights and bodily pleasures. **All worldly pleasures are either vain or unseemly; spiritual joys alone are pleasant and honourable, for they spring from virtue, and are infused by God into the pure of heart. But no man may enjoy these heavenly consolations at will, for temptations are seldom absent for long.
“The Imitation of Christ,” Book 2, Chapter 10

LOVE!

 

[Bookcat]

I will set aside the question of “football” - I am not a football person - neither American nor European (and my children will not play the American…) (I am not a sports person in any way really…).

But can involving oneself in a hobby or a good sport or game etc be compatible with love of God? Yes.

The Popes (even Pope Benedict XVI who was not so much a sportsman like St. Pope John Paul II) speak of Sports (rightly played and understood) as good. Pope Francis just did so recently (like in the last day or so) -calling it a form of education even. Expressing his hopes that they will experience the pleasure and beauty of playing as a team. He said if there was no sports in a parish “something is missing”.

Need one be conscious at all times in ones thoughts of God in order to Love God? No.

Can recreation be good and compatible with the Love of God? Yes. As even noted by the desert Fathers up above and also St. Bruno the Father of the Carthusian Order speaking of the pleasant surrounding beauties of nature : “If the bow is stretched for too long, it becomes slack and unfit for its purpose.”

And his Carthusians go for a walk into the woods from their monastery and talk among themselves every week.

Of course the recreation of a Monk who lives in a cell and monastery can differ from that of a person or family in the world.

Now of course one ought to choose wisely -as a Christian – what recreation one engages in or ones family. Much in our culture is not fitting for such.

Is it good to keep ones thoughts often on God? Yes it can be very good. And very much good to keep ones heart turned towards the Lord (short prayers during the day- a very ancient practice -is good to assist us in this). But just because one is not consciously thinking of God does not mean that one is not Loving him.

Is there also a “virtual” Love that can thus continue when one doing various things in an involved way? Yes.

 

[Bookcat]

I added to the above post -so if you read it already -read it again

 

[meltzerboy]

Loving G-d also consists of using the intelligence, reason, emotions, and senses that He most graciously provided for us in our earthly life. This reminds me of a comment that the late Dr. Raymond Barker, leader of the science of the mind movement, a.k.a. religious science, once made. A woman told him she had been suffering from a terrible headache and she prayed and prayed for relief but the headache persisted. Dr. Barker proceeded to ask her why she did not do something intelligent such as take an aspirin. IOW there are times that loving G-d need not be expressed in the form of worship or prayer, but rather by using, in an appropriate manner, the intellect, emotions, et al that G-d bestowed upon us and then taking action.

 

[Robert_Sock]

I will set aside the question of “football” - I am not a football person - neither American nor European (and my children will not play the American…) (I am not a sports person in any way really).

But can involving oneself in a hobby or a good sport or game etc be compatible with love of God? Yes.

The Popes (even Pope Benedict XVI who was not a sportsman) speak of Sports (rightly played and understood) as good. Pope Francis just did so recently -calling it a form of education even. Expressing his hopes that they will experience the pleasure and beauty of playing as a team. He said if there was no sports in a parish “something is missing”.

Need one be conscious at all times in ones thoughts of God in order to Love God? No.

Can recreation be good and compatible with the Love of God? Yes. As even noted by the desert Fathers up above and also St. Bruno the Father of the Carthusian Order speaking of the pleasant surrounding beauties of nature : “If the bow is stretched for too long, it becomes slack and unfit for its purpose.”

And his Carthusians go for a walk into the woods from their monastery and talk among themselves every week.

Of course the recreation of a Monk who lives in a cell and monastery can differ from that of a person or family in the world.

Now of course one ought to choose wisely -as a Christian – what recreation one engages in or ones family. Much in our culture is not fitting for such.

Is it good to keep ones thoughts often on God? Yes it can be very good. And very much good to keep ones heart turned towards the Lord (short prayers during the day- a very ancient practice -is good to assist us in this). But just because one is not consciously thinking of God does not mean that one is not Loving him.

Is there also a “virtual” Love that can thus continue when one doing various things in an involved way? Yes.

With practice, I believe can train ourselves to almost always keep a part of our mind on God. But I would warn people who seek worldly pleasures, instead of the 12 fruits of the Holy Spirit, of their follow.

Surprisingly, it does not seem that the Church delved into this passage of scripture. I guess that means we must listen to our true conscience, without any interference from the ego, and make our choices accordingly.

To me, this has to be one of the most important passages of scripture that has profound implications. To demonstrate our love for God, we ought to sacrifice all worldly pleasures to the best of our ability, and pray for the fruits of the Holy Spirit.

How many people on this thread really struggle everyday, and to the very best of their ability, to grow in their love of God?

LOVE!

 

[Bookcat]

But I would warn people who seek worldly pleasures

Yes - “worldly pleasures” - that is “sinful pleasures”. Yes avoid sins. One avoids such.

But recreations per se are not “worldly pleasures”.

The Church - who teaches by the authority given by Christ - recognizes the good of reasonable and good recreations.

Yes avoid that which is sinful by nature or excess etc. But recreation can be good and important in a Christians life.

And even if one extends the phrase to mean anything other that the things of religion - the Church does not propose that.

 

[Bookcat]

But yes as Saint Paul tells us in his first letter to the Corinthians (10:31) let us do all for the Glory of God - be it eating or drinking or engaging in recreation or working or praying etc. Such though need not be some constant explicit thought - one can have a rather virtual intention of Loving God…etc.

Though it is very good to turn our Thoughts explicitly to God. But let us keep our hearts turned towards the Lord (and those short prayers I recommended above are helpful -be they during work or recreation).

 

[Robert_Sock]

God is Love, so loving God is loving Love! Why would anybody want to ever take their mind off Love! It’s insanity not to desire more Love, and experience that Love as never before possible. Reach for that higher-ordered Love that nature just can’t provide.

LOVE!

 

[Bookcat]

God is Love, so loving God is loving Love! Why would anybody want to ever take their mind off Love!

Because such is not the ordinary workings of the way that -God who is Love - made us.

Tis the way God made us.

Even human love - my love of my wife - I still love her during my working day -and my children -but I do not “think explicitly” of such all day long. Nor do I need to in order to love them.

I have addressed this in my posts above.

Even Monks and hermits might not have their “minds” always “consciously” and “explicitly” in thought on “Loving God”.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Because such is not the ordinary workings of the way that -God who is Love - made us.

Tis the way God made us.

Even human love - my love of my wife - I still love her during my working day -and my children -but I do not “think explicitly” of such all day long. Nor do I need to in order to love them.

I have addressed this in my posts above.

Even Monks and hermits might not have their “minds” always “consciously” and “explicitly” in thought on “Loving God”.

No other experience compares to that of Love! It’s joyful, and people ought to value it over all things worldly. It’s a joy that one wants to experience as much as possible.

LOVE!

 

[Bookcat]

No other experience compares to that of Love! It’s joyful, and people ought to value it over all things worldly. It’s a joy that one wants to experience as much as possible.

Same response

(and I would add that love can quite dry, painful, and together with various sufferings and still be love).

 

[ready]

+JMJ+

You know, I think we can all end this silliness with a dose of St. Thomas Aquinas, wherein he wrote that (obviously) one can sin by playing too much, yet one can also sin by playing too little: newadvent.org/summa/3168.htm

It is not right for you to ignore what St. Thomas is saying here, Robert.

As I said before, my recreation consists in reading [pious] Catholic books and sharing [loving] conversations with family and friends on the phone – I am not engaged in anything worldly in these recreations and am not fond at all of pleasures like watching football and other recreations that I find will bring me no closer to loving our Lord. But I am not going to wrongly say that watching football is intrinsically evil, and thus sinful, or that a person who goes to watch a game of football loves God less than I do when I am thinking about Him, for I have no idea of the state of the person’s soul at his football game – he could be on fire with love for God, he could be closer to God than I am while at my prayer shrine. If we wrongly accuse people of sinning, we are not loving God by doing so, even if during the course of the day we try to keep thinking about Him – we’d be much better off at a football game, thanking God for the fun day and praising Him for making it possible than by “praying” at our prayer corner with rash judgements about our neighbor lodged in our hearts. Please remember that thinking about God amounts to virtually nothing unless we have love for God and our neighbor in our hearts. It is loving God that makes us into saints – not merely thinking about Him.

 

[Robert_Sock]

It is not right for you to ignore what St. Thomas is saying here, Robert.

As I said before, my recreation consists in reading [pious] Catholic books and sharing [loving] conversations with family and friends on the phone – I am not engaged in anything worldly in these recreations and am not fond at all of pleasures like watching football and other recreations that I find will bring me no closer to loving our Lord. But I am not going to wrongly say that watching football is intrinsically evil, and thus sinful, or that a person who goes to watch a game of football loves God less than I do when I am thinking about Him, for I have no idea of the state of the person’s soul at his football game – he could be on fire with love for God, he could be closer to God than I am while at my prayer shrine. If we wrongly accuse people of sinning, we are not loving God by doing so, even if during the course of the day we try to keep thinking about Him – we’d be much better off at a football game, thanking God for the fun day and praising Him for making it possible than by “praying” at our prayer corner with rash judgements about our neighbor lodged in our hearts. Please remember that thinking about God amounts to virtually nothing unless we have love for God and our neighbor in our hearts. It is loving God that makes us into saints – not merely thinking about Him.

I agree with much of what you’re saying, but I never meant to imply that football is an intrinsic evil, but folly (is folly an evil?). The sin is when we are not loving Love with all our soul, all our heart, all our soul and all our strength. I believe that it’s OK if we do not interpret the passage of scripture the same way; God may well want it to be that way.

I also have nothing against people having leisure time for them to do what they want; but what I would like to express is that during such times the person is experiencing the joy from the Holy Spirit, and not worldly pleasures of any sort. (We are all on different paths, all of which hopefully lead to Heaven. But please realize that worldly pleasures (lusts) are to be condemned by the Contemplatives and Mystics.)

LOVE!

 

[ready]

Oh yes, Robert, I forgot to mention that my recreation also consists in occasional get-togethers hosted by my traditional Catholic friends. Wholesome Christian fun – nothing worldly about it. NONE of my recreations are worldly, Robert; I don’t even enjoy worldly recreations. I just enjoy reading pious Catholic books and conversing lovingly with family and friends for recreation. But I will not judge myself closer to God than a person who goes to a football game every now and then, I will not judge that I love God more than he does – only God knows his heart.

 

[ready]

But please realize that worldly pleasures (lusts) are to be condemned by the Contemplatives and Mystics.)

LOVE!

I already knew that worldly pleasures are bad, Robert. I read Thomas a Kempis regularly and believe everything he says. But innocent fun is not to be considered “worldly pleasure,” Robert – just pleasures that are not so innocent are worldly.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Oh yes, Robert, I forgot to mention that my recreation also consists in occasional get-togethers hosted by my traditional Catholic friends. Wholesome Christian fun – nothing worldly about it. NONE of my recreations are worldly, Robert; I don’t even enjoy worldly recreations. I just enjoy reading pious Catholic books and conversing lovingly with family and friends for recreation. But I will not judge myself closer to God than a person who goes to a football game every now and then, I will not judge that I love God more than he does – only God knows his heart.

Who are we to judge? I never wanted to imply that.

LOVE!

 

[Robert_Sock]

I already knew that worldly pleasures are bad, Robert. I read Thomas a Kempis regularly and believe everything he says. But innocent fun is not to be considered “worldly pleasure,” Robert – just pleasures that are not so innocent are worldly.

My point, and here’s where we may disagree, is what is the source of the pleasure that a person is experiencing at any point of time? I’m saying that must be from the Holy Spirit, and not of the flesh, if it to be viewed as being righteous. So, yes, I can definitely see where a person enjoying football could be a most holy person.

LOVE!

 

[Bookcat]

The sin is when we are not loving Love with all our soul, all our heart, all our soul and all our strength. I believe that it’s OK if we do not interpret the passage of scripture the same way; God may well want it to be that way.

No God does not want us to take that passage that way…

if one means that if one watches a sports game or does some good entertainment that for that reason one is sinning and not loving God with all ones heart soul and strength.

Now could God want certain persons to give up various entertainments - such as say Monks to give up TV? Sure that can be.

 

[ready]

Who are we to judge? I never wanted to imply that.

LOVE!

I was just trying to say that a person who goes to an occasional football game can have his heart closer to God than ours and have a greater love for God than we do. I think we can agree that a person’s love for God is more important than his having thoughts about God. God bless you.