Do we sin when not loving God as much as we can?

[Bookcat]

Do you personally feel that it’s sinful to ignore an “inner prompting” that tells us to sacrifice a particular worldly pleasure? Would you personally listen to this type of an inner prompting?

LOVE!

Not necessarily no.

One should have good discernment regarding proposed “inner promptings” and spiritual direction even.

 

[Bookcat]

(and such even if a prompting is from God - it need not be a “sin” to not follow what one thinks may be from God–things can be of “counsel” and we can also confuse ourselves in our own estimation as to what is a “prompting of God” --and again I assume your meaning here “non -religious pastime” not “sinful matter” for “worldly” can be used in both senses).

 

[Bookcat]

One should have good discernment regarding proposed “inner promptings” and spiritual direction even.

That being said - yes with good discernment - the following of good “inner promptings” are important in the Christian life. In the Spiritual life. Such responses even (again well discerned - people can get off the path here with out good discernment and even good direction) - to little promptings can carry one forward in love of the God and of others and in the life of prayer.

 

[Bookcat]

“A divine inspiration cannot ask us to do something that contradicts what the Word of God teaches and asks of us. This means not the Word of God as compiled by each individual’s fantasy and interpretation, but Holy Scripture as transmitted and explained by the teaching authority of the Church. For example, a divine inspiration cannot ask me to commit acts that the Church considers immoral. In the same way, true inspirations always go in the direction of a spirit of obedience to the Church.”

~ Fr. Jacques Philippe

“The Holy Spirit may encourage a mother to be somewhat less occupied with her household cares so that she can dedicate some time to prayer. But if he suggested to her that she should spend so much time in contemplation that her husband and children suffered, there would be good reason to question the source of this inspiration.”

~ Fr. Jacques Philippe

“God is a Father, and he is certainly a demanding one because he loves us and invites us to give him everything; but he is not an executioner. He very often leaves us to our free choice. When he requires something of us, it is to help us grow in love. The only commandment is to love. We can suffer for love, but we can also rejoice in love and rest in love. It is a trap of our imagination or of the devil to picture a life spent following God as something imprisoning, in complete, constant contradiction with all our own desires, even the most legitimate ones.”

~ Fr. Jacques Philippe

frjacquesphilippe.com/

 

[Robert_Sock]

Not necessarily no.

One should have good discernment regarding proposed “inner promptings” and spiritual direction even.

It can certainly be argued that such promptings are a mere symptom of OCD, but it seems very risky to me not to listen to such a prompting, even if a person has been diagnosed with OCD. I asked this question on the Ask an Apologist forum and I hope for an answer.

LOVE!

 

[Bookcat]

It can certainly be argued that such promptings are a mere symptom of OCD, but it seems very risky to me not to listen to such a prompting, even if a person has been diagnosed with OCD. I asked this question on the Ask an Apologist forum and I hope for an answer.

You mean “give up watching this good show tonight” – no I would not put such proposed inner promptings into the category of sin…

If a person struggles with OCD -that is a further reason to not take such promptings as coming from God - and for professional assistance as well as good spiritual direction.

Otherwise one will end up with OCD as ones “director”…

 

[ready]

Dear Bookcat,

I hope to ALWAYS put mere worldly pleasures second to God. If I am prompted to give up a worldly pleasure that is competing with my love for God, then I’ll be prompt to give it up if I know what is best for me. I wouldn’t need a spiritual director to tell me to give up this kind of worldly pleasure because he’d want me to do so too, for he certainly wouldn’t want ANYTHING competing with my love for God. God bless you.

Yours in the Sacred Heart of Jesus,
Kathryn

 

[Robert_Sock]

Dear Bookcat,

I hope to ALWAYS put mere worldly pleasures second to God. If I am prompted to give up a worldly pleasure that is competing with my love for God, then I’ll be prompt to give it up if I know what is best for me. I wouldn’t need a spiritual director to tell me to give up this kind of worldly pleasure because he’d want me to do so too, for he certainly wouldn’t want ANYTHING competing with my love for God. God bless you.

Yours in the Sacred Heart of Jesus,
Kathryn

Hi Kathryn,

I really like what you say in your posts and I get the feeling that you are very close to God. You seem to have much spiritual discipline! Let me encourage you to keep right on going!

I’m usually able to sacrifice just about anything for God, except at very specific moments when I’m all pumped-up with anticipation. I feel so guilty at these times, and I now pray to God for His grace that I may overcome them. Some forms of temptation are just too powerful for me.

LOVE!

 

[simple_soul]

So In following this thread it has got me wondering, can’t we enjoy pleasure of this world and accept them as gifts from God that He perfects us through and by enjoying them and accepting them as such we are showing our love for God and by accepting them, thanking Him and Glorifying Him for them, keeping our love for Him greater than our love for the gifts/pleasure of this world? And in so doing are we thinking/aware of His presence even if we are all hyped up with anticipation and excitement?

 

[simple_soul]

I need to say that we should think of God all day. God bless you.

Hi Katheryn,

Your post her got me wondering about something I thought I was beginning to understand about the contemplative life. I thought it was thier teaching that we are to quiet the mind and just leave it to rest in God. In order to do this we have to in a way learn to stop thinking about Him so much. We have to learn to let Him do the talking in a sence and learn to quiet our mind from activly thinking about Him to just sitting quietly and listening for Him. I
I guess it is my understanding that our actively thinking about Him all the time is our way of talking to Him all the time.believe St. Theresa of Avila refered to the thinking as like wild horses and she learned to just let her thinkings go. Through God’s Graces of coarse. Iso in a way if this is correct and if we are always thinking/talking to Him how will we ever learn to sit quietly and listen to Him? Maybe I am missing something here but I am wondering if we are not really supposed to be thinking about Him all the time but just being aware of and in His presence all the time.

 

[JRKH]

So In following this thread it has got me wondering, can’t we enjoy pleasure of this world and accept them as gifts from God that He perfects us through and by enjoying them and accepting them as such we are showing our love for God and by accepting them, thanking Him and Glorifying Him for them, keeping our love for Him greater than our love for the gifts/pleasure of this world? And in so doing are we thinking/aware of His presence even if we are all hyped up with anticipation and excitement?

The short answer to this is YES WE CAN!!

Some people feel more drawn to asceticism than others.
Properly balanced either course is acceptable.

The key is to make God the center of all.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

…I was beginning to understand about the contemplative life. I thought it was their teaching that we are to quiet the mind and just leave it to rest in God.

Yes - this is the basic idea of contemplation.

The idea is to “rest in God” as you have said. This involves placing one in a prayerful and relaxed state and then allowing thoughts to pass unimpeded, neither ignoring them or embracing them.

I guess it is my understanding that our actively thinking about Him all the time is our way of talking to Him all the time.

Yes - the problem with trying to “actively think” about Him all the time is that this can actually impede our ability to hear Him, or to do what He asks.

believe St. Theresa of Avila referred to the thinking as like wild horses and she learned to just let her thinking go. Through God’s Graces of coarse. Also in a way if this is correct and if we are always thinking/talking to Him how will we ever learn to sit quietly and listen to Him? Maybe I am missing something here but I am wondering if we are not really supposed to be thinking about Him all the time but just being aware of and in His presence all the time.

No - you are not missing something.
You nailed it at the very end. We are to be aware of Ham and seek to be “in his presence” always. This involves much more than mere “thinking about Him”. It involves making Him and all that He is, the core of our life.

Peace
James

[/QUOTE]

 

[JRKH]

I’m reminded of the passage from Acts where Peter has a vision…
9 The next day, as they were on their journey and coming near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about the sixth hour. 10 And he became hungry and desired something to eat; but while they were preparing it, he fell into a trance 11 and saw the heaven opened, and something descending, like a great sheet, let down by four corners upon the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of animals and reptiles and birds of the air. 13 And there came a voice to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.” 14 But Peter said, “No, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean.” 15 And the voice came to him again a second time, “What God has cleansed, you must not call common.” 16 This happened three times, and the thing was taken up at once to heaven. (Acts 10)
Did not God create all things to be properly used - including our ability to experience joy and pleasure? Since God HAS created these things - they are clean - and we do not sin or fail God if we use them in a proper way. St Paul touches on this as well…
23 “All things are lawful,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful,” but not all things build up. 24 Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor. 25 Eat whatever is sold in the meat market without raising any question on the ground of conscience. 26 For “the earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it.” 27 If one of the unbelievers invites you to dinner and you are disposed to go, eat whatever is set before you without raising any question on the ground of conscience. 28 (But if some one says to you, “This has been offered in sacrifice,” then out of consideration for the man who informed you, and for conscience’ sake – 29 I mean his conscience, not yours – do not eat it.) For why should my liberty be determined by another man’s scruples? 30 If I partake with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of that for which I give thanks? 31 So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. 32 Give no offense to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God, 33 just as I try to please all men in everything I do, not seeking my own advantage, but that of many, that they may be saved. (1 Corinthians 10)
Look at what The Holy Spirit says here…“the earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it”… If I partake with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of that for which I give thanks?
So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.

Peace
James

 

[simple_soul]

Thank you James for the validation a and clarifications.
God knows I am guilty of trying to think about Him all the time. I have found that I drive myself nuts in trying to do it. So am trying to just accept Him more without out trying to activly think about Him. It’s like continually hugging Him and letting Him hold me and hug me and just allowing myself to feel His presence and use it to focuse on any time I start getting upset/angry or fearful or resentful about anything. It is like I am setting aside my resentment, anger, fear or hurt and instead letting Him help me love instead. I am not sure but I beleive it is like. I am lettin His love replace or transform them into His Love so that I can then love others as He loves me. I beleive it is how we are supposed to decreese and let Him increase.

As for choosing a more acetic lifestyle…verses a lifestyle that is not so acetic…

I have been thinking lately that some people who choose to enjoy the pleasures of this life are actually living an acetic life as well as those who give up such pleasures. In some ways I am wondering if they are really just at different points in their own personal acetic life. I do believe that learning to enjoy God’s gifts and learning to appriciated them and thank Him for them because it is His good pleasure to give them to us is actually a form of disiplin too. Do you believe this is sound?

 

[ready]

Hi Kathryn,

I really like what you say in your posts and I get the feeling that you are very close to God. You seem to have much spiritual discipline! Let me encourage you to keep right on going!

I’m usually able to sacrifice just about anything for God, except at very specific moments when I’m all pumped-up with anticipation. I feel so guilty at these times, and I now pray to God for His grace that I may overcome them. Some forms of temptation are just too powerful for me.

LOVE!

Thank you, Robert, for your kind words. I appreciate the encouragement you have given me. God bless you.

 

[ready]

Hi Katheryn,

Your post her got me wondering about something I thought I was beginning to understand about the contemplative life. I thought it was thier teaching that we are to quiet the mind and just leave it to rest in God. In order to do this we have to in a way learn to stop thinking about Him so much. We have to learn to let Him do the talking in a sence and learn to quiet our mind from activly thinking about Him to just sitting quietly and listening for Him. I
I guess it is my understanding that our actively thinking about Him all the time is our way of talking to Him all the time.believe St. Theresa of Avila refered to the thinking as like wild horses and she learned to just let her thinkings go. Through God’s Graces of coarse. Iso in a way if this is correct and if we are always thinking/talking to Him how will we ever learn to sit quietly and listen to Him? Maybe I am missing something here but I am wondering if we are not really supposed to be thinking about Him all the time but just being aware of and in His presence all the time.

Thinking about God is not at all what St. Teresa of Avila is talking about when she makes reference to the mind and wild horses. Vain worldly and distracting thoughts are the wild horses that need to be tamed – not loving thoughts about God, who is the very root and center of our lives and existence.

I just read in a very well acclaimed book first published in 1899 on the catechism explained that we should always think about God. I believe that what is meant by “thinking about God” is not just our having conscious thoughts about Him, for we couldn’t possibly have/experience conscious thoughts about Him all day. “Thinking about God,” I believe also includes our doing everything in our day for His glory and honor and our seeking His Will in everything. If we do everything in our day for Him, seek His Will in everything and see Him in everything we experience and see around us, we are in a sense thinking about Him all the time.

The love, silence, faithfulness, obedience, self-abandonment, the seeking of His glory and honor and of His Will deep within our hearts when we are busy and occupied with some occupation or when we are quietly before Him in the tabernacle can speak louder to Him of our love, gratitude, contrition, etc. than words can. But words are very good and valuable when they are spoken from the heart. Some people may tell you that it is better never to use words with God. I disagree with them, as I have read saints who were spiritual directors teach the value and necessity of frequent ejaculations to God throughout the day. Besides, vocal prayer and ejaculations have had a good and most valuable place in the lives of Saints. It is a mistake to neglect making ejaculations/aspirations to God throughout the day. Please do not be deceived by what you read about contemplation.

We should ALWAYS be occupied with God, that is, we should always be “thinking about God” one way or another during the day – not necessarily only with conscious thoughts about Him and spoken words to Him – but with the silence of love and obedience/submission burning in our hearts for Him during our busy occupations and our quiet prayer-time. God bless you.

 

[JRKH]

Thinking about God is not at all what St. Teresa of Avila is talking about when she makes reference to the mind and wild horses. Vain worldly and distracting thoughts are the wild horses that need to be tamed – not loving thoughts about God, who is the very root and center of our lives and existence.

I just read in a very well acclaimed book first published in 1899 on the catechism explained that we should always think about God. I believe that what is meant by “thinking about God” is not just our having conscious thoughts about Him, for we couldn’t possibly have/experience conscious thoughts about Him all day. “Thinking about God,” I believe also includes our doing everything in our day for His glory and honor and our seeking His Will in everything. If we do everything in our day for Him, seek His Will in everything and see Him in everything we experience and see around us, we are in a sense thinking about Him all the time.

The love, silence, faithfulness, obedience, self-abandonment, the seeking of His glory and honor and of His Will deep within our hearts when we are busy and occupied with some occupation or when we are quietly before Him in the tabernacle can speak louder to Him of our love, gratitude, contrition, etc. than words can. But words are very good and valuable when they are spoken from the heart. Some people may tell you that it is better never to use words with God. I disagree with them, as I have read saints who were spiritual directors teach the value and necessity of frequent ejaculations to God throughout the day. Besides, vocal prayer and ejaculations have had a good and most valuable place in the lives of Saints. It is a mistake to neglect making ejaculations/aspirations to God throughout the day. Please do not be deceived by what you read about contemplation.

We should ALWAYS be occupied with God, that is, we should always be “thinking about God” one way or another during the day – not necessarily only with conscious thoughts about Him and spoken words to Him – but with the silence of love and obedience/submission burning in our hearts for Him during our busy occupations and our quiet prayer-time. God bless you.

Well said.

I have one question though…what do you mean by the statement, “Please do not be deceived by what you read about contemplation.”

Peace
James

 

[ready]

Well said.

I have one question though…what do you mean by the statement, “Please do not be deceived by what you read about contemplation.”

Peace
James

Some people who write about contemplation teach that words are a hindrance to union with God and that the contemplative should keep his mind in sort of an empty void so God can do His thing. Yes, we should be silent and still in prayer and let God speak to us, but prayer is a two-way relationship that requires active participation from both parties and can not be real prayer when it exists in some sort of void, like in Eastern meditation. Heartfelt aspirations/ejaculations made to God and heartfelt Acts of Faith, Hope, Love and Contrition during trials of Faith, Hope, Love, and sinfulness can do much to increase our union with God. St. Teresa of Avila found that there needn’t be any distinction between purely mental prayer and praying the holy rosary – even the rosary can be contemplative, despite its vocal aspect. St. Teresa of Avila even speaks of a certain nun who would be in the state of high contemplation when she’d pray her Our Father the way she did. Clearly, words are not necessarily a hindrance to contemplation and union with God, for they can actually be the means to facilitate contemplation. God bless you.

 

[JRKH]

Some people who write about contemplation teach that words are a hindrance to union with God and that the contemplative should keep his mind in sort of an empty void so God can do His thing.

If some are writing this then they most certainly writing error for it is not the goal or intent of Christian contemplation to make one’s mind an empty void.

Yes, we should be silent and still in prayer and let God speak to us, but prayer is a two-way relationship that requires active participation from both parties and can not be real prayer when it exists in some sort of void,

Agreed - but I have not read any Catholic authors promote this “void” idea.

Heartfelt aspirations/ejaculations made to God and heartfelt Acts of Faith, Hope, Love and Contrition during trials and sinfulness can do much to increase our union with God.

Amen.

St. Teresa of Avila found that there needn’t be any distinction between purely mental prayer and praying the holy rosary – even the rosary can be contemplative, despite its vocal aspect. St. Teresa of Avila even speaks of a certain nun who would be in the state of high contemplation when she’d pray her Our Father the way she did. Clearly, words are not necessarily a hindrance to contemplation and union with God, for they can actually be the means to facilitate contemplation. God bless you.

Again - I agree.

And I reiterate…If an author promotes making one’s mind and “empty void” they are either not reaching in accord with the great saints, OR they are not expressing themselves well at all.

Peace
James

 

[simple_soul]

Thinking about God is not at all what St. Teresa of Avila is talking about when she makes reference to the mind and wild horses. Vain worldly and distracting thoughts are the wild horses that need to be tamed – not loving thoughts about God, who is the very root and center of our lives and existence.

I just read in a very well acclaimed book first published in 1899 on the catechism explained that we should always think about God. I believe that what is meant by “thinking about God” is not just our having conscious thoughts about Him, for we couldn’t possibly have/experience conscious thoughts about Him all day. “Thinking about God,” I believe also includes our doing everything in our day for His glory and honor and our seeking His Will in everything. If we do everything in our day for Him, seek His Will in everything and see Him in everything we experience and see around us, we are in a sense thinking about Him all the time.

The love, silence, faithfulness, obedience, self-abandonment, the seeking of His glory and honor and of His Will deep within our hearts when we are busy and occupied with some occupation or when we are quietly before Him in the tabernacle can speak louder to Him of our love, gratitude, contrition, etc. than words can. But words are very good and valuable when they are spoken from the heart. Some people may tell you that it is better never to use words with God. I disagree with them, as I have read saints who were spiritual directors teach the value and necessity of frequent ejaculations to God throughout the day. Besides, vocal prayer and ejaculations have had a good and most valuable place in the lives of Saints. It is a mistake to neglect making ejaculations/aspirations to God throughout the day. Please do not be deceived by what you read about contemplation.

We should ALWAYS be occupied with God, that is, we should always be “thinking about God” one way or another during the day – not necessarily only with conscious thoughts about Him and spoken words to Him – but with the silence of love and obedience/submission burning in our hearts for Him during our busy occupations and our quiet prayer-time. God bless you.

Thank you for clarifying Kathryn. I was not taking “thinking about God all the time” as being loving thoughts or non conscious thoughts. But more as letting " thinking about God all the time" as not only consciously doing it but also doing it for vain reasons or for thinking about Him instead of thinking about or focusing on what. God needs one to be focused on.