Do we worship Mary?

[fisherman_carl]

The short answer is no. However, if you look at the history of the english word ‘worship’ it is simply to give honor to someone, a person or to God. The bible says to give honor to whom honor is due. So Catholic practice of honoring Saints is biblical.

I like to illustrate the difference in todays use of the word worship and previous usage with the KJV. This is an old Protestant english translation.

Lk 14:10 (KJV):
“But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.”

Here you have Jesus saying they will worship you. Is Jesus advocating idolatry? No, of course not. The word worship here is being used in the general sense meaning to receive honor. There are many more examples in the bible in the OT where for example Abrahan ‘woships’ his father in law. These are all the general usage of worship.

Because of the possible confusion the Catholic Church in the 4th century found it necessary to define the different types of honor. There was the honor given to creatures which was termed dulia. And there was the honor due to God alone and that was termed latria. And, Mary was given a special honor amongst creatures known as hyper-dulia which means greater dulia. Yet it is still of the type dulia, honor to creatures. Mary is still a creature and therefore can not be given the honor, latria, that is due to God alone.

To honor anyone above God would be idolatry since there is no other God. So it would be out of touch with reality. And this harmful to one’s soul.

The link you give is the standard anti-Catholic rhetoric i’ve heard much before. If you want a good rebuttal read Karl Keatings book ’ Catholicism and Fundamentalism’. Anti-Catholics like that dont usually let ‘facts’ persuade them from their beliefs. The question we have to ask ourselves is are we pursing the truth honestly or are we deceiving ourselves. I find that anti-Catholics tend to be ignorant about what the Catholic Church actually teaches and many are not even intersted in what it teaches. They get all their info about us from anti-Catholic sources where it is safe form them to continue their prejudice.

 

[Nicea325]

Absolutely not! Loving someone and honoring him or her does not equate into worship.

 

[Evan]

In the last century we have conflated the terms worship and adore. Adoration is reserved for God alone. Worship was originally (as has been stated above) a designation of honor and could apply to God or to people.

Now we** honor** judges, parents, teachers, etc.

There was a time we worshiped judges, parents, teachers, etc. but now worship is reserved for God. BUT if you read older liturature you would expect to encounter worship being used to reference people where we would use the term honor today.

I don’t know if adore was ever applied to anyone but God. And it is still applied to God when referring to Eucharistic Adoration; NOT Eucharistic Worship.

 

[TimothyH]

Absolutely not! Loving someone and honoring him or her does not equate into worship.

Please read the other posts about the meaning of the word “Worship”.

Protestantism has killed the idea that there can be various levels and types of worship.

Please read the other posts.

-Tim-

 

[Nicea325]

Please read the other posts about the meaning of the word “Worship”.

Protestantism has killed the idea that there can be various levels and types of worship.

Please read the other posts.

-Tim-

I agree! I’l look into it. Thanks

 

[rdscheirer]

gty.org/resources/sermons/90-315/exposing-the-idolatry-of-mary-worship-catholic-dogma-part-1

Anyone come across this yet?

The Angel Gabriel came to Mary and said “full of Grace” what does that mean? Mary is venerated but not worshiped in the True church. She is respected and honored because she took on the burden of bearing Jesus and knowing at that time he would die as a human.

I remember reading on this website or maybe it was Catholic Answers magazine(if you don’t get it you should whether you’re Catholic or not- it shows you the true Biblical foundation of the Church) tht Mary was called Theodokis(sp?) - God bearer by the early Catholics.

 

[TimothyH]

The Angel Gabriel came to Mary and said “full of Grace” what does that mean? Mary is venerated but not worshiped in the True church. She is respected and honored because she took on the burden of bearing Jesus and knowing at that time he would die as a human.

I remember reading on this website or maybe it was Catholic Answers magazine(if you don’t get it you should whether you’re Catholic or not- it shows you the true Biblical foundation of the Church) tht Mary was called Theodokis(sp?) - God bearer by the early Catholics.

Again, please read the posts above about the real meaning of the word worship, that there are different levels and types of worship and the Protestant Churches have conflated the term to mean only one thing.

Mary is honored not just because whe was burdened by knowing that Jesus would die as a human.

Mary is the pinnacle of all creation, above the angels and saints. She is the Queen of Heaven and earth who sits at the right hand of the King of kings. She is the Mediatrix of all Grace - all grace from every confession and every reception of the Eucharist and every prayer, every conversion of every sinner comes to us through the hands of Our Lady who distributes the grace won for us by her son according to her son’s will. At the moment of our death, Mary will come to us and lead us to Jesus, and while the accuser stands there accusing us before God, Mary will plead with her Son to have mercy on us.

That is why we treat Mary the way we do.

-Tim-

 

[Evan]

Mary is the pinnacle of all creation, above the angels and saints. She is the Queen of Heaven and earth who sits at the right hand of the King of kings. She is the Mediatrix of all Grace - all grace from every confession and every reception of the Eucharist and every prayer, every conversion of every sinner comes to us through the hands of Our Lady who distributes the grace won for us by her son according to her son’s will. **At the moment of our death, Mary will come to us and lead us to Jesus, and while the accuser stands there accusing us before God, Mary will plead with her Son to have mercy on us. **

That is why we treat Mary the way we do.

-Tim-

Two titles given to lawyers are:advocate and councilor.
When we are being judged by the Lord, he has already appointed us an advocate, a councilor. It is the public defender: the Holy Spirit who will plead for us before the heavenly court.

Mary may be called as a witness, but I would rather have God as my advocate rather than any creature. With Him in my corner, how can I lose?

 

[Publisher]

Again, please read the posts above about the real meaning of the word worship, that there are different levels and types of worship and the Protestant Churches have conflated the term to mean only one thing.

Mary is honored not just because whe was burdened by knowing that Jesus would die as a human.

Mary is the pinnacle of all creation, above the angels and saints. She is the Queen of Heaven and earth who sits at the right hand of the King of kings. She is the Mediatrix of all Grace - all grace from every confession and every reception of the Eucharist and every prayer, every conversion of every sinner comes to us through the hands of Our Lady who distributes the grace won for us by her son according to her son’s will. At the moment of our death, Mary will come to us and lead us to Jesus, and while the accuser stands there accusing us before God, **Mary will plead with her Son to have mercy on us. **That is why we treat Mary the way we do.

-Tim-

Why would Mary need to “plead” for us before Jesus…isn’t he already rich in mercy and willing to do more than we hope and think? How would Mary’s “pleading”…a creature like me…sway God Himself if mercy was not in His mind to offer in the first place? Who loves us more than Christ that would sway him to offer mercy he has already offered?

 

[Nelka]

Do we worship Mary?

No.

 

[fbl9]

prayer is the purest form of worship, this is gleaned from the Jesus when He said “pray this way: Our Father who art in heaven hallowed be thy name.” All prayer is worship cause Jesus told us to pray in a way that we honor God.

Now there are pieces missing from this “teaching” that i heard on the radio, but this is the nutshell of how some make the claim by praying to Mary we are worshipping her as a god.

 

[Nelka]

prayer is the purest form of worship, this is gleaned from the Jesus when He said “pray this way: Our Father who art in heaven hallowed be thy name.” All prayer is worship cause Jesus told us to pray in a way that we honor God.

Now there are pieces missing from this “teaching” that i heard on the radio, but this is the nutshell of how some make the claim by praying to Mary we are worshipping her as a god.

When we pray directly to God, He answers our prayers in some way.

When we pray to Mary, she does not answer the prayers in the same way, she prays to God for us on our behalf.

We do not worship her, nor would she want us to worship her.

 

[tabycat]

Why would Mary need to “plead” for us before Jesus…isn’t he already rich in mercy and willing to do more than we hope and think? How would Mary’s “pleading”…a creature like me…sway God Himself if mercy was not in His mind to offer in the first place? Who loves us more than Christ that would sway him to offer mercy he has already offered?

I have heard simaler reasoning for just praying to God and not asking anyone (in heaven or on earth) to pray for us.

 

[TimothyH]

Why would Mary need to “plead” for us before Jesus…isn’t he already rich in mercy and willing to do more than we hope and think? How would Mary’s “pleading”…a creature like me…sway God Himself if mercy was not in His mind to offer in the first place? Who loves us more than Christ that would sway him to offer mercy he has already offered?

Mary is not a creature like you.

Mary was specially prepared before creation to bear God in her womb for nine months and to nurse God at her breasts. Mary is therefor the pinnacle of all creation, higher than the angels and the saints, the first Christian and the priemier Apostle.

Mary is a Queen. The kings of the Old Tesament appointed their mother’s as their queen, and the King of kings is no different. Jesus’ Queen is Mary. Mary wears a crown and sits on a throne in Heaven and rules as Queen of Heaven and earth.

***For those he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, so that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined he also called; and those he called he also justified; and those he justified he also glorified. *(Romans 8:29-30)

Mary was predestined to be conformed to the image of her Son, and she has been. While we await our glorification, Mary has already been glorified beyond the glory of any human being except for her son, exalted as the Queen of Heaven and earth, higher than the angels and the saints, second only to her son Jesus Christ.

Mary is not a creature like you. She is far, far above creatures like you, and me.

The question is not who loves us more than Christ but who loves Christ more than us. Mary does.

-Tim-

 

[Huiou_Theou]

No, “we” do not worship Mary – as “I” do not worship her.
I am in good standing in the Catholic Church.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

In the sense that the word "worship’ is understood by the vast majority of people in the Western world, which is currently “Protestant’ based and defines it as 'what is offered to God alone”, I do NOT worship Mary. Mary is not God. ONLY God is our Creator, only God is our Savior.

But if I am reading an old literary text, often translated from a language other than English, written in a time (before usually the 19th century or so) in which the word ‘worship’ is understood as “HONOR given to a person because the person is worthy of honor” (such as was the case when the British addressed a judge, for example, as 'your Worship"), I do NOT go around saying, "OH this text is so wrong wrong wrong because worship is only for GOD in AD2012 mostly Protestant Western understanding! This proves Catholics worship Mary and lie about it!:

Same as if I am reading a novel from the late 19th century where it talks about the hero being a gay man, I don’t go around saying, "Look at this, the hero is homosexual!!’ --based on the fact that in AD 2012 the Western understanding of the word ‘gay’ is now almost exclusively to be used to mean homosexual!!

The word ‘gay’ prior to say AD 1970 did not mean homosexual. It meant happy,.

So for works written prior to that time, one has to consider that even if today ‘gay’ almost always means ‘homosexual’, back years ago IT MEANT SOMETHING ELSE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

Same with ‘worship’.

And so I refuse to say that ANY USE OF THE WORD "worship’ from the dawn of time always HAS to mean ‘what is offered to God alone’ —because that WAS NOT THE ORIGINAL MEANING OF THE WORD.

 

[TimothyH]

No, “we” do not worship Mary – as “I” do not worship her.
I am in good standing in the Catholic Church.

By virtue of her divine motherhood and status as Queen of Heaven and earth, she is owed a minimum level of reverence and veneration.

As the Mediatrix of Grace and co-Redemtrix, we owe her a minimum level of gratitude.

Such is hers by right.

-Tim-

 

[TimothyH]

In the sense that the word "worship’ is understood by the vast majority of people in the Western world, which is currently “Protestant’ based and defines it as 'what is offered to God alone”, I do NOT worship Mary. Mary is not God. ONLY God is our Creator, only God is our Savior.

But if I am reading an old literary text, often translated from a language other than English, written in a time (before usually the 19th century or so) in which the word ‘worship’ is understood as “HONOR given to a person because the person is worthy of honor” (such as was the case when the British addressed a judge, for example, as 'your Worship"), I do NOT go around saying, "OH this text is so wrong wrong wrong because worship is only for GOD in AD2012 mostly Protestant Western understanding! This proves Catholics worship Mary and lie about it!:

Same as if I am reading a novel from the late 19th century where it talks about the hero being a gay man, I don’t go around saying, "Look at this, the hero is homosexual!!’ --based on the fact that in AD 2012 the Western understanding of the word ‘gay’ is now almost exclusively to be used to mean homosexual!!

The word ‘gay’ prior to say AD 1970 did not mean homosexual. It meant happy,.

So for works written prior to that time, one has to consider that even if today ‘gay’ almost always means ‘homosexual’, back years ago IT MEANT SOMETHING ELSE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

Same with ‘worship’.

And so I refuse to say that ANY USE OF THE WORD "worship’ from the dawn of time always HAS to mean ‘what is offered to God alone’ —because that WAS NOT THE ORIGINAL MEANING OF THE WORD.

Yes, it is semantics.

Catholics have allowed non-Catholics to control the meaning of words and thereby control the conversation. If you can change the meaning of a word, you can prove anything, including proving that Catholic devotion to the Blessed Mother is not Biblical.

The problem is that Catholics are being pulled out of the Church with this nonsense, especially where I live in the deep-south.

-Tim-

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Yes, it is semantics.

Catholics have allowed non-Catholics to control the meaning of words and thereby control the conversation. If you can change the meaning of a word, you can prove anything, including proving that Catholic devotion to the Blessed Mother is not Biblical.

The problem is that Catholics are being pulled out of the Church with this nonsense, especially where I live in the deep-south.

-Tim-

Which is why I always find it helpful to bring up the British Judges “Your Worship” (I believe they are still addressed as such to this day) and the use of ‘gay’.

Because if British Judges can be called ‘your worship’ by God-fearing English Protestants in AD2012, it is obvious that said Protestants are not worshipping their judges, and that at SOME TIME the word ‘worship’ obviously did not mean ‘what is given to God alone.’

So that also means the definition of the word was CHANGED at some point. (Then it’s good to bring up ‘gay’ which is another recent example). Let them think about how the word ‘gay’ got changed. Do some people still refuse to use the word gay to mean homosexual? (Yes.) Are they right to do so? Sure. Nobody is FORCED to use the word ‘gay’ to mean ‘homosexual’. They can use the word ‘homosexual’. And they can ALSO use the word ‘gay’ to mean what it had meant originally. . .happy.

At this point they usually get quite huffy about how that is all ‘different’ and ‘beside the point’ but the seed has been sown. They usually start discussing another ‘Catholic error’ instead. Little by little, brick by brick, keep telling the Truth till you make it stick. . .

 

[TimothyH]

Which is why I always find it helpful to bring up the British Judges “Your Worship” (I believe they are still addressed as such to this day) and the use of ‘gay’.

Because if British Judges can be called ‘your worship’ by God-fearing English Protestants in AD2012, it is obvious that said Protestants are not worshipping their judges, and that at SOME TIME the word ‘worship’ obviously did not mean ‘what is given to God alone.’

So that also means the definition of the word was CHANGED at some point. (Then it’s good to bring up ‘gay’ which is another recent example). Let them think about how the word ‘gay’ got changed. Do some people still refuse to use the word gay to mean homosexual? (Yes.) Are they right to do so? Sure. Nobody is FORCED to use the word ‘gay’ to mean ‘homosexual’. They can use the word ‘homosexual’. And they can ALSO use the word ‘gay’ to mean what it had meant originally. . .happy.

At this point they usually get quite huffy about how that is all ‘different’ and ‘beside the point’ but the seed has been sown. They usually start discussing another ‘Catholic error’ instead. Little by little, brick by brick, keep telling the Truth till you make it stick. . .

That’s why I sometimes go straight to Mary in my apologetic. Seriously, I do, and it has had a profound impact on at least one person I was in a training class with, a dedicated Evangelical who insisted that Catholics don’t preach the true Gospel. .

I pointed out many of the twenty seven (!!!) verses where the name of the mother of the king was mentioned in 1 and 2 Kings and 1 and 2 Chronicals to show how the mother of the king was a queen.

I also used Reveleation 12 in general to point out this queen and Revelation 12:17 to show that those who “Keep God’s commandments and bear witness to her son, Jesus” are Mary’s offspring.

I usually go straight to Mary in my apologetic. This one guy at least shut up long enough to hear what I had to say, and every time we speak he mentions how cool it was to have that conversation and how he had never met a Catholic who was so interested in Scripture.

The common wisdom is not to rock the boat - don’t discuss Mary because it will drive people away and only serve to confirm their misunderstandings. I say that is nonsense, and sometimes the first question I ask is, “Do you keep God’s commandments and bear witness to Jesus?”

And then I go to revelation 12:17.

You really can’t lose with the Mother of God.

-Tim-