Do we worship the same God?

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cyprian:
Please read Hillaire Belloc’s The Great Heresies, here we find the true history from a non-biased historian. A convert to Catholicism he may well be but he is a historian first.

Peace
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Hi again brother cyprian,

I haven’t read her book but I love to. I think her book was written to promote understanding but not hatred…

have a nice day.
 
Dear Iosav,
Sorry, but still I have to love them more than ever. Isn’t it love that built the Church?
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*Do you think Jesus didn’t love when he got rid of the sellers at God’s Temple?
Do you think Jesus didn’t love when he gave parables that “offended” the pharises?
Love comes in many shapes, Brothers. The intention that should be pure.

Boa*
 
Boa Constrictor:
Dear Iosav,

Do you think Jesus didn’t love when he got rid of the sellers at God’s Temple?
Do you think Jesus didn’t love when he gave parables that “offended” the pharises?
Love comes in many shapes, Brothers. The intention that should be pure.

Boa
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Christ have all the rights to do that. We are not more than him. The apostles never did that. They humbly submit their own selves for the sake of Christ.
 
Dear Iosav,
Christ have all the rights to do that. We are not more than him. The apostles never did that. They humbly submit their own selves for the sake of Christ.
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*What I mean is that sometimes love is shown with something hard. I mean if you need to say the truth, say the truth. Not to hurt someone, but because we want that someone to realize.

For example,

If a father pull his son’s hair hard, you will think it’s cruel and unlovely.
But if the father pull his son’s hair hard, to save him from drowning, what do you think?
Love is not shown by meekly following and agreeing with other people. Love is shown by telling the truth, even if the truth hurts. Like in this case. Is it hard to say, we are not worshipping the same God? Because our conception of God is different. It’s not that we don’t love moslems, but the truth is our conception of
God is VERY different.

Boa*
 
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losav:
Hi again brother cyprian,

I haven’t read her book but I love to. I think her book was written to promote understanding but not hatred…

have a nice day.
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By the way, Hillaire Belloc is a he!
 
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losav:
Hi again brother cyprian,

I haven’t read her book but I love to. I think her book was written to promote understanding but not hatred…

have a nice day.
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Yes, understanding. His book was written so we could understand the history of islam. Now that we understand it, it becomes incumbent upon us to share the understanding, how it really happened. So now we cath’s are left with the job of being instruments for Christ in bringing about the salvation of souls. To know the truth and yet to remain silent is to bring down the anger of God. I respect every person, but it would be the opposite of charity to not correct someone in error. Tolerant love and permissiveness are two different things. Anything does not go…we want all to be saved, this is the locus of catholic thought. Sometimes the truth is a hard saying, like “unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life in you.”

peace
 
Does the christian God have a son?

Does Allah have some daughters?
 
Daniel Marsh:
Does Allah of Islam have a son?
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No. He doesnt have a daughter, mother or father either. There is no one like him.

“Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
Allah, the Eternal, the Absolute;
He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
And there is none like unto Him.” (Quran chapter 112)
 
Hi Faith101 What do you make of these verses?
Here is how the Koran once read with the satanic verses:

Near it is the Garden of Abode. Behold, the Lote-tree was shrouded (in mystery unspeakable!) (His) sight never swerved, nor did it go wrong! For truly did he see, of the Signs of his Lord, the Greatest! Have ye seen Lat. and 'Uzza, And another, the third (goddess), Manat?

These are the exalted cranes (intermediaries) Whose intercession is to be hoped for.

What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female? Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair! (an-Najm 53:19-22)
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** Here is how it reads today in the Koran:**
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Near it is the Garden of Abode. Behold, the Lote-tree was shrouded (in mystery unspeakable!) (His) sight never swerved, nor did it go wrong! For truly did he see, of the Signs of his Lord, the Greatest! Have ye seen Lat. and 'Uzza, And another, the third (goddess), Manat?
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[Words of Satan Deleted]
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What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female? Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair! (an-Najm 53:19-22)
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bible.ca/islam/islam-allahs-daughters.htm

:confused: :confused: :confused:
 
Daniel Marsh:
What do you make of these verses?
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the story regarding the “satanic verses” stems from inauthentic reports. many scholars of hadeeth have clarified that the story is a forgery and never happened.

edit:
in my post here. i quoted a small portion from “sirat al-nabi and the orientalists” by muhammad mohar ali, vol.2, pgs.683-702 which states:
The threefold Qur’anic evidenc against the story is decisive. Apart from that, however, a little careful examination of the reports would at once expose the speciousness of the story. The story has come down in about a dozen varying versions, each version having a couple or more different chains of narration (isnad). These isnads have been critically examined by a number of both classical and modern experts and all agree in holding that each version is technically mursal, i.e., its isnad does not go up beyond the second generation (tabi’un) after the Prophet.
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also, you can read here that the story is not authentic.

as for the refutation by ibn katheer mentioned in the last link i provided, when i get the chance to translate it, i’ll post it up as well.
 
thank you

APPENDIX B: This is a reproduction of an article by a member of the UK Shari’ah Counsel from the book PROCEEDINGS OF THE PANEL ON “CORRECTION OF ERRONEOUS INFORMATION PUBLISHED ON ISLAM AND MUSLIMS” THE CASE OF THE SATANIC VERSES - by The Islamic Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Organization - ISESCO, 1413 AH/1992 AD…

answering-islam.org/PQ/AppendixB1-index.htm

answering-islam.org/Quran/Miracle/satanicverses.html

merely for your consideration.

looking forward to your translation.
 
buffalo said:
Muslims Worship the One True God
Code: 
                     [Only Their ‘Receiving Apparatus’ Is Defective](http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0301fea4.asp)
In recent years many self-styled “traditionalist” Catholics have expressed shock that Pope John Paul II has stated on various occasions—usually during his apostolic journeys to nations with a strong Muslim presence—that the followers of Islam, together with Christians, worship “the one true God.” But the Holy Father has done nothing more than restate the teaching of the Second Vatican Council, which said, “The Church also views with esteem the Muslims, who worship the one and only God, living and subsistent, merciful and omnipotent, the Creator of heaven and earth” (Declaration on the Relation of the Church to Non-Christian Religions 2).

Some “traditionalist” Catholics cite these statements of the Council and the Pope as evidence for the sedevacantist position, which holds that the See of Peter is vacant, i.e., that there has been no true pope since Vatican II. Their thinking is that since Allah is a false god, the statements of Paul VI and John Paul II to the contrary constitute public heresy—even apostasy and idolatry—which is incompatible with their being true popes.

These people use this issue as a litmus test for determining who is Catholic and who isn’t. Simply ask a professing Catholic, they say, whether Muslims worship the one true God (as John Paul II says they do). If the person answers yes, then you can know without further ado that he has already reached “the end of the road”—total apostasy.

I have long been in public discourse with sedevacantists via letters and articles in various publications. (See, for example, “White Smoke, Valid Pope,” This Rock, March 2001.) I am on record agreeing with Pope John Paul II that it can be said truly that the Muslims “worship the one true God” even though they deny his trinitarian character. At the same time, I believe unequivocally in the revealed mystery of the most blessed Trinity—as does John Paul II along with all his predecessors.

As for the sedevacantists’ litmus test concerning Allah as the one true God, they err by confusing two distinct questions: whether one person or two separate persons are being referred to in a given situation; and what the qualities or attributes of a given person are. Let me explain.

more…
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You’ve explained very well 😛 - and briefly too.​

One q., though: how is Allah a false god ? ##
 
daniel,

here’s a partial translation of what ibn katheer mentioned…

in his exegesis of 22:52, ibn katheer states:
many of the exegetes have mentioned here the story of the cranes and what was from [the story of] the return of those who migrated to the land of abyssinia, those from them who thought that the polyheists of quraish had accepted islam, however, all of them are from mursal routes (a mursal narration is one that is disconnected, either the companion linking the narration to the prophet is missing or the tabi’i linking the narration to the companion is missing), and i do not see them as supported from an authentic way, and Allah is more knowledgeable.
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[ibn katheer then mentions the different narrations this story comes by along with their chains of transmission, including those mentioned in the seerah books by at-tabaree and ibn ishaaq, then says…]
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and muhammad bin ishaaq has mentioned them in the seerah with similar to this, and all of them are mursal and disconnected. so, Allah is more knowledgeable.
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here’s more from “sirat al-nabi and the orientalists” by muhammad mohar ali (pg.698-699):
to sum up, the differences and divergences in the report about the occasion of the incident, the nature of the prophet’s alleged act, the wording of the alleged verses and their sequel and effect are only illustrative of the fact that none of them is a correct report of what actually transpired. these differences also show that the narrators have added their own notions and imagination to the story the course of its transmission. the report is not given, it may once again be emphasized, by an eye-witness of the alleged incident, nor by any companion of the prophet. it originated with the second generation (tabi’un) after the prophet. besides this mursal nature of the reports, their isnad or chains of narrators are not at all unimpeachable. on the other hand, in most cases, the isnad is positively “weak” or “unreliable” or “disconnected”. the fact of the multiplicity of channels (turuq) which is sometimes considered a strengthening factor, has also been examined by experts in this connection; and it has been held that this strengthening factor does not apply in the present instance in view of the inherent weaknesses of the isnads of the various channels. all these factors mark the story out to be only a later fabrication. this is in addition to its glaring conflicts with the Qur’anic evidence which, as was pointed out above, is alone sufficient to discredit the story.
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Daniel Marsh:
Does Allah of Islam have a son?
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Hi Daniel Marsh,

What do you mean by God having a son? He had “sex” with humans and then finally having an offspring?

If you mean the Catholic position on the incarnation of Christ, he is not simply a son as if God and Mary had sexual intercourse but rather the Logos who is God took our likeness, exactly like us but not sin. This is the fulfillment of all the prophecies in the OT. Remember, the present bible of Christians and the Torah of the Jews were written by different people in varying dates in history in different places. There were no communication between them but since God is present anywhere, he communed with them in a manner that is one and the same… that the Messiah will come, born of a woman.

On the other hand, the Quran was written by one man, with him alone as the witness, he alone dictated the words, set the rules and proclaimed the teachings… he alone made the canon.

The difference is desparingly so huge that we can’t compare them.

-losav
 
Hahah… 😃 if all of you say that the God of Muslims and Christians is the same…it will not take long before people say that God of Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Buddhism, Pagans, are the same. Hurray… 👍 The world will be a better place then… 😃
 
The god of our bible is named yaweh , do muslims have a name for their god?
 
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