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inJESUS
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Reuben J:
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Faith101
Guest
Satan’s mission is to mislead and misguide all of mankind. He does this in many ways, and his best tactic is to get people to worship and pray to other than God. whether its other human beings, idols, etc.
Islam is built on the oneness of Allah, we bow down to no one but Him (as Jesus did). We worship no one but Him and we ask of no one but Him.
Your entire response is based on the idea that you believe the FACT is that Jesus is God…couldnt that be Satan’s trick? According to the verse you quoted, he can do counterfeit miracles as well.
Think about it…what if God is really just one, complete. Not one complete in 3. What if Jesus is really not God, but a messenger of God, who came to bring the Children of Israel to know that htey should be worshipping the one God.
Again, this whole “satan inspired Islam” is bogus…have you ever read the Quran?
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inJESUS
Guest
satans primary mission is to stop your salvation. who gave salvation? Jesus by his death and atonment. So satan has to lead people away from the true Jesus who saved all.
christians as well believe in ONE God. Its mohammads mistake that we believe in 1 OF 3 GODS. You (and the Qu’ran) are confusing the notion of ‘one’ as being a single unit or thing (which is one meaning of the word “one”) with another meaning of the word “one”: ‘one’ as “constituting a unified entity of two or more components (the combined elements forming one substance).” [By the way, these are not just my meanings for the word “one,” they come directly from my dictionary.] Doyou know what muslim tawheed is?
can satan preach love, forgiveness to all mankind? can satan raise the dead my dear? can satan die for humans?
the number one is understood as the mathematical number one, a human invention. Limiting God to the number one is absurd coz God is infinite. And dont worry about who really Jesus is. Many people do see him today and they know very well who he is. Jews knew very well that Jesus equaled himself to God, thats why he was killed for blasphemy according to them.
i did and i still read it and i have the same terror sensation everytime i open it.
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inJESUS
Guest
Dr. Zakir Naik regarding the etymology of Tauhid:
TAWHEED:
Definition and Categories:
Islam believes in ‘Tawheed’ which is not merely monotheism i.e. belief in one God, but much more. Tawheed LITERALLY MEANS ‘UNIFICATION’ i.e. ‘asserting oneness’ and is derived from the Arabic verb ‘Wahhada’ which means TO UNITE, UNIFY OR CONSOLIDATE.
In light of this, muslims have no basis to argue that Islamic monotheism negates any kind of plurality within God. God can be one in one sense, while being more than one in another sense, i.e. plurality of attributes, qualities and/or persons.
TAWHEED:
Definition and Categories:
Islam believes in ‘Tawheed’ which is not merely monotheism i.e. belief in one God, but much more. Tawheed LITERALLY MEANS ‘UNIFICATION’ i.e. ‘asserting oneness’ and is derived from the Arabic verb ‘Wahhada’ which means TO UNITE, UNIFY OR CONSOLIDATE.
In light of this, muslims have no basis to argue that Islamic monotheism negates any kind of plurality within God. God can be one in one sense, while being more than one in another sense, i.e. plurality of attributes, qualities and/or persons.
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Faith101
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We dont believe in salvation through the murder of an innocent man. We depend on the mercy of our Lord…I like that view better.inJESUS said:
Thats confusing…put it simply…you believe in 3 persons in 1 being…correct?
Yes, I do know what tawheed is, i took a whole class on it
Why would Satan preach love? Actually I can think of a few places where he’s covered up his tactics to make it look like he is preaching love
Jesus, may God’s peace be upon him, told people to love one another, and worsihp God…as did Mohamed, peace be upon him.
I dont think so…only God can do that or give the power and permission to a human being of His choosing.
God gave that power to Moses (where Moses, by the persmission of God, turned a stick into a snake) and Jesus (but the permission of God) brought a dead man to life. As Jesus did say that he does nothing by his own will.
What is your point?
One meaning no partners…no one like Him. Whats the first commandment? Its simple…why are you trying to confuse everything?
The Jews killed many people, anyone who came with something they didnt like. Whats your point?
subhanAllah…thats actually very interesting…i think i know why.
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inJESUS
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Faith101
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God does not die.
So according to you, we are all going to paradise, regardless of what we believe or do?
Allah has created us for one purpose–to worship Him. Whats your purpose in life?
Again, my Hindu friends say the same thing. God is complex, he’s many persons in 1…but still one God.
Again, what’s the first commandment?
Why not? Isnt this a place for people to learn about other faiths?
Anyway, that was the way it was explained to me on this site. 3 persons in 1 being…do you agree?
You dont know? I thought you read the Quran
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inJESUS
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of course not. It is Jesus, the second person of the Trinity God who took a human body, died, and resurrected. i assume you have an idea about what trinity is other than its number.Faith101 said:
no i didnt mean this.Your salvation depends on your deeds and based on this Allah will be merciful or not, so he mercy is conditioned. According to us, God is merciful and already saved all, that is, he alread showed hisUNCONDITIONAL mercy. Mercy is unconditional and proven not conditional and unproven until you die. Believing in God , his salvation and love, automatically your behaviour will show it.
why does God need you to worship him? does he need to “feel” worshipped? does he have an “ego”? christians purpose in life is to LOVE GOD ( first commandmant) and to start our kingdom of heaven here on earth , thru an intimate relationship with God, until we reach him again.
sorry dont know what hindus believe in. But you didnt answer: saying God is the mathematical, human-created number 1, dont you think you are limiting Him, and making him a very easy God?
correct, but you are still asking questions that show you are not learning. If you start by learning about the Trinity, much of your confusion will be cleared.
its a very basic simplification but yes i agree. the 3 are the same 1;
nop i thought it was a personal opinion. Do you mean that i feel terror because allah sealed my heart?
i dont think so. God is love. A book that instills terror is not from God. After all, didnt mohammad say : i will instill terror in the hearts?
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Faith101
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inJESUS said:
I asked you if God can die. You said “ofcourse not”… then continued to say that Jesus died…all the while believing the Jesus is God.
Thats not true…where do you get this information?
Deeds mean nothing without the proper intention. You can do the best of deeds, with the worst of intention…and therefore end up in hell.
Again I ask you, can someone get into paradise provided that they believe in nothing and do no good…and just fall into the unconditional mercy of God? Or is it based on you believing in something and doing good? Please, keep it simple.
God doesnt need anyone. if the whole world worshipped dirt, it wouldnt harm Him in the least.
I thought the first commandment was to worship one God?
I’ll tell you something in all honesty. I know nothing about God, except what He has chosen to reveal to us human beings. Abraham said “worship one God” as did Moses and did Jesus as did Mohamed peace be upon them all. So thats what I do, worship 1 God.
The Bible says that God is not a god of confusion, yet the basic belief system you are trying to explain is nothing but confusion (not only for Muslims, but Christians as well).
If its for the sake of complexity, then why stop at 3 in 1…God is much more complex than that…why not 10 million in 1?
Maybe you have some new way of explaining it. Open a new thread explaining the trinity without confusion…I think it will benefit a lot of ppl here.
Fear God, because He can put you in Hell…thats what your Bible saysIs it from God?
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inJESUS
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Faith101 said:
Faith, you posted more that 800 posts and you still dont get that Jesus became flesh? it is the second person of the Trinity who took human flesh and died, not The father nor the Holy Spirit.
correct, but its based on good deeds that allah will save you or not. So allah will judge , knowing that you are weak. So how do you call it grace if it is conditioned? and you still didnt answer : why is this life a test if allah already knows the result?
i kept it simple but you didnt get it. It is Salvation first, the deeds. You cannot believe in Jesus and kill . I already said : when you believe in God, your fruit must be godly. To you its otherwise: you do good deeds and then you see if allah will be merciful or not, which denoted a dictator allah.
but you said that muslims purpose is to WORSHIP allah, are u contradicting yourself?
It is to Love God.
“Teacher, 21 which commandment in the law is the greatest?”
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He said to him, 22 "You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.
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This is the greatest and the first commandment.
because mohammad told you he is the mathematical number 1. The trinity God is also in the OT. Only mohammad thought alllah is “the number” 1. We all agree that God is one, but only mohammad limited him to mathematical number 1.
This has nothing to do with WHO OR WHAT God is. Your quotation is out of text. If you understand God, you become God. keep it simple
if he said so then why not? according to Jesus, it is 3. Jesus said the Father is God,the Holy Spirit is God, and himself is God.
you are already in a catholic site
you are refering to the OT i guess? jesus said a hundred times : do not fear , and his commandmant is love , not fearFear God, because He can put you in Hell…thats what your Bible says
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Faith101
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How about if I were referring to the NT would it make a differenceyou are refering to the OT i guess? jesus said a hundred times : do not fear , and his commandmant is love , not fear
I dont know if this conversation is beneficial…we are just going back and forth about nothing…so i’m pulling out.
peace
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inJESUS
Guest
yes because the fear sensation is different in Jesus’ light. We are to love , not fear. If we obey God out of fear, then where is the merit? we must do it out of love.Faith101 said:
you asked, i gave answers. I asked, you answered almost nothing…
no problem
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discipleofJesus
Guest
Muhammad was a false prophet, he is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. How do I know this? By his fruits (the Quran, his words, his deeds)!
Jesus warned us of false prophets
“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them.”
(Matthew 15-16)
Muhammad did not preach love like Jesus! Jesus taught us to love all humans, to love our enemies and to pray for those who persecute us
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you”
(Matthew 5:43-44)
"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets."
(Matthew 7:12)
‘“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37Jesus replied: " ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."’
(Matthew 22:36-40)
Muhammad taught Muslims to persecute others and didn’t teach them to love their enemies or to love all humans.
“Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”
(Sura 9:29)
“Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves…”
(Sura 48:29)
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discipleofJesus
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Your response implies that what Jesus did was not voluntary, but was merely inflicted upon him. Jesus gave his life voluntarily and freely. “I lay down my life—only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again” (John 10:17-18).
God is not only merciful. He is also just. Justice is not the same as mercy. Justice means if you sin, you pay the penalty. However, because God is merciful and because God is love, He atoned for our sins by becoming Human (without losing his divine nature i.e. He added a human nature to His divine nature). Also, because God is unlimited, any sin against God requires unlimited atonement, therefore only someone who is unlimited (and only God is unlimited) could atone for our sins. The atonement should be provided by a person who is
- Unlimited (as explained above)
- Sinless - or else he will need salvation himself
- Human - since human beings commited the sin, therefore, a human being should pay the price
- Mortal - since the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23)
If God just forgave us our sins without making atonement, that would be merciful but it would not be just.
God is both merciful and just.
In the words of Dr. Norman Geisler (taken from ‘Moral Objections to Christ’s Death’ by Dr. Norman Geisler ankerberg.org/Articles/theological-dictionary/TD0204W3.htm)
The Lord Jesus Christ, who is both God and man, atoned for our sins.
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
(John 3:16)
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Reuben_J
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This is an excellent post in explaining this issue. I couldn’t have said it better. Both you and inJesus have covered the ground very well, I rest my case.
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Church_Militant
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To say this is then to assert that the Jews worship “a different God” than we do. Is “The God of Abraham” not the same God and the part of the Holy Trinity that we Christians call the Father?
We may believe that theirs is an “imperfect” worship, (My apologies to both Muslims and Jews who may read this, it is not meant to offend you, I promise.), but it is worship of the God of Abraham nonetheless.
All the craziness & warfare by members do not reflect either the highest standards of any of the 3 religions in question.
Pax vobiscum,
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jesus_is_lord
Guest
I don’t know what the Catholic church advocate, but the word of God is living and active, and is sharper than any double-edged sword. If you want answers use your sword!!
We do not serve the same God for the Word tells us so, read 1 john…what does he tell us? Anyone who denies Christ is the Antichrist, further, if you deny christ you deny God… Before Abraham, I AM/ the word made flesh dwelled among us/ “GOD WITH US,” is this not what the angel of the Lord said?!
Do u understand, Jesus is Lord- Our redeemer! As one of the other members quoted: “This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” Acts 4:11-12.
“Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.” 1John 2:23
At the name of Jesus every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess… How can we be serving the same God with those who deny Christ?- it’s a paradox. If you abide in the doctrines of Christ you have God- read 2 John 1. The Word answers your question 1000times round.
Romans 16: 17 " Now i beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such SERVE NOT OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches DECEIVE the hearts of the simple."
We have accessible gifts from God, if it were my advise i would recommend u seek them, esp the Spirit of discernment, cos the word tells us that even the elect will fall…be not deceived!
Love in Christ,
Your sis
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discipleofJesus
Guest
(Matthew 15-16) should be (Matthew 7:15-16)
Just to be more clear I will quote the next few verses too
‘"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.’
(Matthew 7:15-20)
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JOHNYJ
Guest
A lot of long winded discussion has gone on on this thread.It is realy very simple though.Does any christian worth the name believe that his God is the same as that which tells teenage girls to strap on explosives and kill other teenage children ?I don’t think so.
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George_Waters
Guest
Church Militant:
Peace,
George
Very good post Michael!
Peace,
George
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