Do Wiccans believe that they have souls?

[BlessedBe13]

J.R.:

If they do please tell me who or what gave it to them?

Yes I believe I have a soul, as do the rest of living things, and they were born with it. I tend to believe that they are new souls, but I am still deciding on my beliefs in reincarnation.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

As you can see I have become invisable to the enemy, for the battle is not against flesh and blood but against the principalities of darkness,the evil spirits from above. Im sure the ignore button has been activated for Gods Word speaks Truth.

 

[BlessedBe13]

SPOKENWORD:

As you can see I have become invisable to the enemy, for the battle is not against flesh and blood but against the principalities of darkness,the evil spirits from above. Im sure the ignore button has been activated for Gods Word speaks Truth.

I am the enemy now? How mean. That hurts a lot.

I just chose not to respond to your last post because it made no sense and was completely irrelevant.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

BlessedBe13:

I am the enemy now? How mean. That hurts a lot.

I just chose not to respond to your last post because it made no sense and was completely irrelevant.

No ,you are not the enemy. I love you and so does Jesus Christ.Its the spirits behind Wicca that are the enemy.

 

[BlessedBe13]

SPOKENWORD:

No ,you are not the enemy. I love you and so does Jesus Christ.Its the spirits that are the enemy.

You said:

As you can see I have become invisable to the enemy

Im sure the ignore button has been activated

Did the “spirits” press the ignore button here? I don’t see any “spirits” posting.

And what are these “spirits”? Is the spirit of my dead grandmother the enemy?

 

[SPOKENWORD]

BlessedBe13:

You said:
Did the “spirits” press the ignore button here? I don’t see any “spirits” posting.

And what are these “spirits”? Is the spirit of my dead grandmother the enemy?

Do spirits have hurt feelings? Im talking about the spiritual button.

 

[J.R]

Heathen Dawn:

Thank you. when Wiccans write things down, which may or may not include beliefs, they write it down in a Book of Shadows. The first such BOS was that of Gerald Gardner, the founder of Wicca, and you can find it, complete, online (on the Internet Sacred Text Archive). But it contains much more than creeds and theology.

Is Gerald Gardner the final authority of beliefs of Wiccans? If not who then?

 

[BlessedBe13]

SPOKENWORD:

Do spirits have hurt feelings?

They are/were once people. People have feelings. Either way, it is still rather rude of you to imply that my dead grandmother is the enemy.

Im talking about the spiritual button.

May I ask then, what the point of posting that was? There are no “spirits” here posting, no “spirit” buttons. Your post is either irrelevant, or you are just trying to cover up for referring to me as the enemy.

 

[Heathen_Dawn]

J.R.:

Is Gerald Gardner the final authority of beliefs of Wiccans?

No. He wasn’t even when he was alive. He was just the founder.

If not who then?

No-one. No Wiccan Pope, sorry.

 

[J.R]

BlessedBe13:

Yes I believe I have a soul, as do the rest of living things, and they were born with it. I tend to believe that they are new souls, but I am still deciding on my beliefs in reincarnation.

I disagree with your statement not all living things are born with souls. I believe we as human beings made in the likeness of God demostrate that we have souls by having the capacity of rational thought. No animal or plant can do that.

 

[Heathen_Dawn]

J.R.:

not all living things are born with souls.

All self-aware living organisms have life after death.

I believe we as human beings made in the likeness of God

We’re the product of evolution by natural selection, just like all life on this planet.

demostrate that we have souls by having the capacity of rational thought. No animal or plant can do that.

Having rational thought is not the prerequisite for having a soul; consciousness, self-awareness is.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

BlessedBe13:

They are/were once people. People have feelings. Either way, it is still rather rude of you to imply that my dead grandmother is the enemy.
May I ask then, what the point of posting that was? There are no “spirits” here posting, no “spirit” buttons. Your post is either irrelevant, or you are just trying to cover up for referring to me as the enemy.

Who is it thats called the accuser? Number one rule is to never talk about anybodys mother .Who is it thats called a liar? {quote] [There are no spirits here .] I never claimed you were the enemy. Any spirit that denies Jesus in the flesh is not of God. You want to keep spreading your lies and spreading your poison on to our brothers and sisters,go right ahead but know that you [Wiccan spirits] will be defeated in Jesus name.

 

[J.R]

Heathen Dawn:

All self-aware living organisms have life after death.

We’re the product of evolution by natural selection, just like all life on this planet.

Having rational thought is not the prerequisite for having a soul; consciousness, self-awareness is.

First, how do you know that all self-aware living organisms have life after death?

Second, evolution by natural selection is a theory not fact. But that is for another discussion.

Third, rational thought is what separates us humans from animals. Animals do things either out of instinct or what is taught to them by us to do. Conscious is a judgement of reason of which animals cannot do.

 

[J.R]

Heathen Dawn you belittle yourself and all mankind when you elevate animals to the same level as humans. To quote St. Thomas Aquinas, “The rational plan of divine providence demands that the other creatures be ruled by rational creatures,” Summa contra Gentiles.
Also, " Man was created in the image and likeness of God: animals were not. Man is rational, animal is irrational… Man therefore is a person; animals are non-persons. Man is a person because he is an end in himself, and not a mere means to the perfection of a higher order. Animals are not persons or moral beings because devoid of reason and free will (and so of responsibility) and because they were created for the service of man, and as a means (if properly used) towards his perfection… Now a right or “jus” is the moral faculty or power of doing, having, exacting, or omitting something. This is a moral, not a physical, power derived from eteranal law, which is the fount of all laws and rights. Therefore animals, as non-moral beings,have no “jus” or right in themselves, no personal rights, as against man, and the question of “injustice” (which means acting against “jus”) does not arise… While [God] refrained from raising animals to the moral order so as to put them on a level with man, He yet provided for them a greater safeguard then mere sentimental attachment; for He made care and consideration for animals an integral part of the moral order of the universe. Right thinking man acknowledges the animal world as a commission from God, given for his use; for which he will have to render an account to the creator." Dom Ambrose Agius O.S.B.

 

[Prester_John]

Heathen Dawn:

That’s what the scientific evidence says: Big Bang, beginning of the universe, about 15,000 million years ago.

I am not saying God is merely a force; but He is also the life-force behind every atom and every living creature. This concept is not so alien to Christianity as you may think: the Bible says all things consist and have their being in Christ… ]

Wiccans believe the male God and the female Goddess are the personal faces of the single, sexless Creator-God. The single Creator-God created the universe, but Wiccans worship that one by worshipping the Goddess and the God.

Wiccans, prior to Robert Graves’s book, the White Goddess, and prior to a certain Mr Gardiner( a former devotee of Allaister Crowley), did not actually exist. How I find myself posting here is quite strange… I knew both of these men a little. Crowley by his infamy and his perfidy. Graves by his love and compassion, his poetry and his conversion.With a capital “C”. And, I recall, though I am just an old, stupid man,not worth even dignifying a response to; that at the time, Robert’s thoughts regarding Wicca, and other pagan cults springing up specifically from the time between the UK Parliament’s Repeal of the “Witch Act”, and his book’s second printing, filled him with a great trepidation and remorse at the deliberate misconstruements and out - right falsifications of most of the arguments and patient research contained in the book. Most of your… forgive me, most of your so- called best authours don’t read or truly do research, you only take words at thier face, literal, counting-house value, so to continue that line of pointless hopeless diatribe would be truly the old man’s folly…
Therefore –
I rephrase and regroup…

I quoted you above, for a reason. Brother.
I am not so far gone yet in in my dotage that I cannot recognize an individual’s intellectual property from another’s. The other I see is a quote from Pierre Teillhard De Chardin, from, On The Phenomenon of Man, and also fron the work, The Omega Point, published in many countries posthumously. The english version is not quite so good as the original french, no?

Of which I, too ,read fluently.
These things of which you speak so carefully, are not completely missed, sir. Oh, maybe by the typical, 5-minute attention-span sub-urbanite post-modern Neolithic, created and molded by the modern world and in its plastic environmental postRadical anti-chic Mores…
But not by People like me… THE FOSSIL RECORD!

Very clever though.

I think, that in the light of this forum’s intent, and the fact that I have justly and truly been rebuked before about my lack of Charity, I ought to say no more. But I will finish By publishing my opinion that you ought to be ashamed, at the very least, by your plagarism.
But then, I might just be some fool. (If you should ever pass by some other old daft crank please spare some change).

 

[FelixBlue]

J.R.:

Felix HeathenDawn is male.

Very interesting…

 

[Jermosh]

J.R.:

I disagree with your statement not all living things are born with souls. I believe we as human beings made in the likeness of God demostrate that we have souls by having the capacity of rational thought. No animal or plant can do that.

All living things have a soul according to the Church. But the differance is Man’s soul is immortal.

 

[Heathen_Dawn]

J.R:

First, how do you know that all self-aware living organisms have life after death?

Because people who are in the afterlife tell us this is so. And it stands to reason, since evolution is true (a fact and not just a theory).

eclecticsatyr.hostultra.com/promise.htm

Men of old fancied that only humans have life after death. That view was tenable as long as the gradation, the kinship, the common ancestry between living organisms lay undiscovered. But ever since Darwin’s theory, which is as true and long-standing as heliocentrism, the notion that only one species of many has life after death is absurd. Either there is, as the naturalists say, no afterlife for any organism, or there must be a different way of determining which organism has life after death and which has not; which classification must include other biotes than humans.

Noteworthy in this regard is that Pope John Paul II has invented an elaborate way of keeping immortality to humans alone while accepting evolution: when it was time for Homo sapiens to finally evolve, God inserted the human soul in their first specimens. Ingenious? No question. But as doomed to failure of credibility as Tycho Brahe’s astronomical system. Ptolemy had said the planets and the sun all circle the earth, and Copernicus said all planets, including the earth, circle the sun. Now Brahe was aware of the observations in Copernicus’s favour, but wished to keep the physical centrality of the earth intact, so he devised such a system in which all planets circle the sun, but the sun (with all the planets) circles the earth. Of course Brahe’s system was more absurd than even Ptolemy’s. And so is any system that tries to keep immortality to humans after Darwin’s discoveries.

J.R.:

rational thought is what separates us humans from animals. Animals do things either out of instinct or what is taught to them by us to do. Conscious is a judgement of reason of which animals cannot do.

Actually animals are much more rational than humans. They don’t kill each other for the sake of killing, out of ideology, but only for eating, for survival. Mankind would be better off behaving like animals (instead of like machines).

Heathen Dawn you belittle yourself and all mankind when you elevate animals to the same level as humans.

I belittle nothing. Humans are animals. The Bible dictum that we are separate from nature has brought nothing but disaster to Mother Earth. The Abrahamic monotheists of the world, by breeding more than She can provide for and by thoughtlessly exploiting Her, are raping and despoiling Her. This is the one thing we pagans can and do decry as blasphemy!
Prester John:

Wiccans, prior to Robert Graves’s book, the White Goddess, and prior to a certain Mr Gardiner( a former devotee of Allaister Crowley), did not actually exist.

Tell me something I didn’t know. Come on, I’m not your typical fluffbunny teen instaWitch who’s read one or two books by Silver Ravenwolf and thinks Wicca is thousands of years old!

I am not so far gone yet in in my dotage that I cannot recognize an individual’s intellectual property from another’s.

But I will finish By publishing my opinion that you ought to be ashamed, at the very least, by your plagarism.

The concept of “intellectual property” is anathema to me. Fruits of the intellects cannot be stolen, they can only be copied, and this is not stealing; for stealing is when you have a chair, I take your chair, so you now don’t have a chair; whereas, when you have an idea and I take your idea, you still have that idea, so I have stolen nothing, I have only copied. Copying is no crime, except in the eyes of those who would control everything. But this is another discussion.

 

[Jermosh]

Heathen Dawn:

since evolution is true (a fact and not just a theory).

Its not fact, there has not been one scientific paper that has proven Evolution as fact. It has proven some of the building blocks of Evolution though. Genetic mutation(both natural and artificial), enviromental adaptation(moths in London), artificial adaptation(breeding animlas for traits). These are all facts, and disprove “literal” creationists, but do not prove Evolution. Also the Church accepts evolution as being possible within the Faith.

Actually animals are much more rational than humans. They don’t kill each other for the sake of killing, out of ideology, but only for eating, for survival.

Actually humans kill for some of the same reasons that other animals kill. They do not just kill for food, but they also kill for genetic survival, resource compitition, fear, and out of reflexal instincts.

I belittle nothing. Humans are animals. The Bible dictum that we are separate from nature has brought nothing but disaster to Mother Earth. The Abrahamic monotheists of the world, by breeding more than She can provide for and by thoughtlessly exploiting Her, are raping and despoiling Her. This is the one thing we pagans can and do decry as blasphemy!

This is not true, to think that we are actually hurting the Earth in anyform is alittle agendanated(word?). We cannot hurt the earth, no matter what we do it will still be here long after the 2nd coming. Also thru technoligy and proper resource use the Earth can sustain far more people then we have now.
Its also a grave sin to greedly despoil the earth according the Church teachiings. We are to take care of the Earth and all animals in it. Now granted not all humans do this, but some do and the Church says it is the right thing to do.

The concept of “intellectual property” is anathema to me. Fruits of the intellects cannot be stolen, they can only be copied, and this is not stealing; for stealing is when you have a chair, I take your chair, so you now don’t have a chair; whereas, when you have an idea and I take your idea, you still have that idea, so I have stolen nothing, I have only copied. Copying is no crime, except in the eyes of those who would control everything. But this is another discussion.

So you are not fpr patents or copywrites? If so, what reward is there for a inventor, or artist?

 

[SPOKENWORD]

Blessed Be &Dawn. You arent ignoring my Question are you. Is there any God out there that has shed one drop of thier blood for you? Its the blood that saves you,without it you are lost foerever. Only Jesus Christ My Lord and Savior has and He did it to save Me and You. ,Praise God.