Do women have to go too far to get the attention of men?

[Xantippe]

catholicpamphlets.net/pamphlets/Can%20I%20Keep%20Pure.pdf

1. Why don’t those nice Catholic boys ask nice Catholic girls out, early and often?
2. I think it’s clearly untrue that “If our girls are pure, our boys will be pure, too,” as there are a) always other options other than “our girls” (including commercial arrangements) and b) it’s possible to be impure all by oneself.
3. popinjay?

I think this pamphlet puts way too much pressure on young women to do all of the heavy lifting.

 

[USMC_Convert]

Wow buddy, that’s pretty specific, thinking of anyone in particular?

Today’s American male has 1/2 the testosterone of his grandpa. And a parallel dilemma is increased estrogen levels in males from exposure to chemicals, phyto-estrogens like marijuana, and endogenous sources like gut yeast overgrowth from antibiotic use as Candida creates its own estrogen. High estrogen levels in males has been shown to cause increased violence towards females in a Japanese study. I’d advise the young lady to WAIT and migrate to a nice, detoxified community and find a Catholic rancher who is marijuana-free and eating a lot of Omega 3 grass-fed beef and lamb and who occasionally indulges in Rocky Mountain Oysters.

To restate this, the increasing immodesty of females may be directly related to the horrific state of modern male hormones. God bless America and help us in our distress.

 

[USMC_Convert]

LoL, they say the military is a reflection of society, that being the case, after 14 years of watching these guys I’d say having friends that are male is hardly possible without finding the ones that want to live a Christ like life…

Let her know that there is no hurry. My daughter didn’t marry until the age of 25, and that was to a young man of the same Protestant denomination she was going to. I think that if a young woman waits, the right man will come along. Not to say that she not talk to guys in the mean time. Being friends with a guy is a good start. Better than what I did. I fell for the first hormone raging man who showed me any “decency.” Needless to say it didn’t last long. Let her get her degree and a job before worrying about any boyfriend. Men have a tendency to be late bloomers.

 

[USMC_Convert]

Sinners, prostitutes and all others than the ones on Catholic dating websites need not apply!!!

Hey, don’t listen to me though, I’m just a used car gone 'round the track one to many times. Probably need to take a look under the hood see if I need an oil change before I hit the streets again.

Man, I’d love to be your confessor, must be an easy job…

I would stay positive, who wants a man that has been around, and around and around the laps many times, to used . A Catholic dating Site or ask friends do they know of any nice Catholic guy wanting to go on a blind date is a better bet, and not all men when they are looking for a wife want to hitch with a used car either, there are some nice guys out there, hard to find, but they are there, like a pearl who also like a woman not to be used so he does not have to worry about some guy coming up to him saying I know your wife ( in the Biblical term) Chastity in marriage is something beautiful to keep for your husband only, as the Church teaches.

Plus then one is entering into another field of contraceptives which is against Church teaching, so the whole thing is rather sordid.

 

[Luvz2travel]

Hi forum! You guys have helped me in the past, and I periodically browse this site even though I haven’t posted in years. This is not a problem so much as a discussion that I had with a niece of mine that I would like some more Catholic thoughts on.

My 22 year old niece will be graduating from a small, wonderful, Catholic college in December, and from there, she’s on to graduate school . She is bright, funny, and very pretty. She was raised Catholic and has been very true to her faith all of her life. However, she has never had a boyfriend.

Her theory is that she “can’t compete” in the dating world because she won’t engage in any premarital sexual activity. From her point of view, all of the eligible men pass her over for women who will do more for them. I told her that this is not the case-that those men would not be a good match for her anyway and that they are doing her a favor by weeding themselves out. But she is still convinced that if “everyone else” would stop dressing immodestly and having sex, it would be easier for her to get attention.

I know that she is frustrated with her situation, and I know that she feels like no one will ever want to be with her. But this just isn’t true! I’m afraid that these thoughts will end up leading her to do things with men that she knows are wrong out of desperation. Is there anything I can say to her to make her understand that the men she thinks are “passing her over” wouldn’t have much in common with her anyway?

Well it’s certainly going to save her time and heartache is she’s upfront where she stands right away. I’ve heard some guys will wait or date with out putting out I’ve yet to meet one that would. I’ve never had good luck with guys though. She might want to check out Avamaria singles website folks there are said to be more conservative and serious but when I was there I had no luck either. She won’t get anywhere though unless she gets out and meets people. That doesn’t mean she has to date them just join activites or groups and maybe she’ll luck out and come across someome that’s campatible.

 

[USMC_Convert]

Oh I read it quite carefully, of course one of my other sins may be that I’m just dumb and can’t understand the English language.

See the Aunt was talking about that my friend, you, no you quite specifically were referring to all men and women with checkered pasts, attempting to regain the glory of Salvation, sexual abuse victims, you my friend encompassed everyone.

Here’s a thought for you, what if you have a guy, that has been struggling with sexual impurity his whole life, or even let’s say the last 6 months. He loves God, he tries, but his temptation is too great, maybe he just isn’t as good as Christ our Lord, and you, ya know all those that should be judging peoples souls. This guy is struggling trying everything literally, then he comes across your web post allying him to a used car, comparing him to women that you called used cars, saying we’ve been around the track to many times.

Oh oh oh, here’s a thought, what if someone was looking for help here and read your post, what if someone was thinking of converting to Catholicism and read this?

What if God read it? Do you think he knows? Oh Holy and Chaste Celtic Chick, answer me that!!!

…and forgive me, one of my other of many sins may be anger, and you have gotten me quite frustrated.

Please read what I said carefully, we are not talking about victims of sexual assault or sexual abuse that is dreadful state of affairs.

Also we are not talking about women/men with checkered pasts and now trying to live a chaste life.

What the discussion was about an Aunty discussing her niece who said did she have to dress immmodestly or live unchastely to catch a man’s eye, as she was so upset about not catching a guy’s eye and would like to get married.

This niece has her chastity and would like to keep her for her marriage, please don’t take away her innocence but rather applaud it, if one has lost there’s well that is there problem,
we are all responsible for our own actions.

 

[USMC_Convert]

Let’s see here I can think of some better phrases too. “Holier than Thou” to start. Maybe I should just come out and say it, learn to write! Words mean things!!! You did not stick to the question at hand. That’s why people have a problem with your post.

Now I said what I meant and I meant what I said!

Indeed, I am sure God finds it very offensive when people don’t exercise control and have pre marital sex, and again we are not talking about widows and widowers, why cannot you not stick to the point and the Question posted, instead of going off in different directions. Please read the Question posted, and used car is the most modest analogy I can think of, better than antique, or used widely. High mileage maybe you prefer.

People are not practising there Catholic faith I see it all around me and what they tell me.
By being an Ostrich is not going to amend things, say what you mean , and mean what you say.

 

[Lorelei12]

Her theory is that she “can’t compete” in the dating world because she won’t engage in any premarital sexual activity. From her point of view, all of the eligible men pass her over for women who will do more for them. I told her that this is not the case-that those men would not be a good match for her anyway and that they are doing her a favor by weeding themselves out. But she is still convinced that if “everyone else” would stop dressing immodestly and having sex, it would be easier for her to get attention.

I know that she is frustrated with her situation, and I know that she feels like no one will ever want to be with her. But this just isn’t true! I’m afraid that these thoughts will end up leading her to do things with men that she knows are wrong out of desperation. Is there anything I can say to her to make her understand that the men she thinks are “passing her over” wouldn’t have much in common with her anyway?

Is this just a theory that your niece has come up with as to why she hasn’t had a boyfriend, or has she literally been turned down multiple times because she wants to remain chaste? Those are two very different situations.

If she is absolutely certain that men are “passing her over” because she won’t have sex, because she’s actually been rejected for that reason then yes, you are absolutely right, they wouldn’t be a good match for her anyway.

But if she is just conjecturing that she hasn’t been dating because “everyone else” is willing to do things that she is not, well then I think she perhaps needs to consider the bigger picture. Does she have male friends, is she involved in activities, does she make an effort to get to know people? Blaming other women because you can’t get a date isn’t a good approach to getting one- maybe she isn’t really ready for a relationship? Making excuses about why you aren’t dating is a self-esteem issue.

Almost every married couple I know around my age (early thirties) went to different colleges. She may find that when she gets into either grad school or the working world, the men are more mature.

 

[MJJean]

I think she is hiding something and concocted this story to get you off it.

How many boys has she been on dates with who after a couple of dates discover that she isn’t going to put out and never talk to her again? How did they find out? I’m just not buying it without specifics.

I don’t get why you aren’t buying it. As a relatively recent veteran of the dating scene (only been married 11 years), I can assure you sex is expected within a few months at most and not giving it up is seen as a valid reason to stop dating. And it’s not just young men who feel that way. I know more than a few gals who consider dating without sex a colossal waste of their time.

How would the guys know? Easy. A girl who isn’t putting out and has any kind of social life is going to be gossiped about because she is seen as an extreme rarity or crazy depending on who is doing the talking.

Other than that, date numbers 1-3 usually involve some light touching and kissing if not actual “making out”. The OP’s niece isn’t sexually active and is preserving her chastity so I’m going to bet she has had to put the brakes on this kind of behavior and then probably explained why to the young man lest he think she was not interested.

Besides, because sex is expected by so many a lot of men and women who are chaste tell potential dates/actual dates up front that there will be no hanky-panky.

 

[Xantippe]

Sinners, prostitutes and all others than the ones on Catholic dating websites need not apply!!!

Hey, don’t listen to me though, I’m just a used car gone 'round the track one to many times. Probably need to take a look under the hood see if I need an oil change before I hit the streets again.

Man, I’d love to be your confessor, must be an easy job…

Funny!

Check the filters while you’re in there.

 

[Xantippe]

Is this just a theory that your niece has come up with as to why she hasn’t had a boyfriend, or has she literally been turned down multiple times because she wants to remain chaste? Those are two very different situations.

If she is absolutely certain that men are “passing her over” because she won’t have sex, because she’s actually been rejected for that reason then yes, you are absolutely right, they wouldn’t be a good match for her anyway.

But if she is just conjecturing that she hasn’t been dating because “everyone else” is willing to do things that she is not, well then I think she perhaps needs to consider the bigger picture. Does she have male friends, is she involved in activities, does she make an effort to get to know people? Blaming other women because you can’t get a date isn’t a good approach to getting one- maybe she isn’t really ready for a relationship? Making excuses about why you aren’t dating is a self-esteem issue.

Almost every married couple I know around my age (early thirties) went to different colleges. She may find that when she gets into either grad school or the working world, the men are more mature.

Those are some good points.

The “everybody else is dating but me” thing may be an illusion. It took me years after college to realize, hey it wasn’t just me–it was a very small minority of students who paired off as boyfriend and girlfriend and also probably about half of the girls I knew that were paired off had long-distance boyfriends from high school or their previous college.

I think there’s a lot of timidity among young men that age (we see a lot of scared little bunnies among the single guys who post here) and it may genuinely take them a couple years (or longer) to make a move. When my husband asked me out, he was 24 years old, a graduate student, and it was the first time he’d been out with a girl.

I predict that graduate school will be fantastic for the niece, if she’s even a little assertive.

Remember, the average age of first marriage in the US is now 27 for women and 29 for men, so 22 is young for a woman these days and way, way young for a man. Being around slightly older guys (which she will be in grad school) will be very helpful.

 

[Estevao]

1. Why don’t those nice Catholic boys ask nice Catholic girls out, early and often?
2. I think it’s clearly untrue that “If our girls are pure, our boys will be pure, too,” as there are a) always other options other than “our girls” (including commercial arrangements) and b) it’s possible to be impure all by oneself.
3. popinjay?

I think this pamphlet puts way too much pressure on young women to do all of the heavy lifting.

boys ask our girls out early and often
all the heavy lifting is on women

Try going to the trouble of asking out someone for once girls before complaining. The girl this thread is about might get some more attention if she tried talking to boys instead of expecting them to do all the approaching and escalation.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

boys ask our girls out early and often
all the heavy lifting is on women

I do think it’s worth mentioning that judging from your previous posts, you seem to want a very traditional, devout woman who will recognize you as the head of the household, be a SAHM, not have a career, and not be concerned with education. A woman who is that traditional is going to expect the same from you. That means that you’ll have to pursue her, escalate the relationship, when you’re married you’ll be expected to initiate sex much more than her, you’ll be expected to be a good provider, and be strong and protective.

 

[Xantippe]

boys ask our girls out early and often
all the heavy lifting is on women

I thought you were super traditional and wanted a super traditional woman? It’s no good saying at the same time, “Why aren’t young women more sweet, demure, chaste and good?” and also expecting them to ask men out by the dozen. You can have a super traditional woman or a woman who asks men out, but those generally aren’t the same person. The more traditional you are and the more traditional you expect your future spouse to be, the more labor you should expect to put into dating and courtship if you are a guy. Remember, there are women who believe in asking men out. We call them “feminists.”

I wasn’t super demure with my future husband (I confess to inviting him early on to a dinner party which was largely a pretext on my part for smooching afterward), but you don’t want somebody like me.

 

[Xantippe]

I do think it’s worth mentioning that judging from your previous posts, you seem to want a very traditional, devout woman who will recognize you as the head of the household, be a SAHM, not have a career, and not be concerned with education. A woman who is that traditional is going to expect the same from you. That means that you’ll have to pursue her, escalate the relationship, when you’re married you’ll be expected to initiate sex much more than her, you’ll be expected to be a good provider, and be strong and protective.

Yes.

 

[Estevao]

I do think it’s worth mentioning that judging from your previous posts, you seem to want a very traditional, devout woman who will recognize you as the head of the household, be a SAHM, not have a career, and not be concerned with education. A woman who is that traditional is going to expect the same from you. That means that you’ll have to pursue her, escalate the relationship, when you’re married you’ll be expected to initiate sex much more than her, you’ll be expected to be a good provider, and be strong and protective.

Yes, God willing I will find my trad wife soon enough.

But this is about the girl in the OP, not how I’m going to get my trad wife. If she wants attention from boys, try talking to them for once. College guys sometimes don’t notice the little miss sitting quietly in the lecture hall.

 

[Estevao]

I thought you were super traditional and wanted a super traditional woman? It’s no good saying at the same time, “Why aren’t young women more sweet, demure, chaste and good?” and also expecting them to ask men out by the dozen. You can have a super traditional woman or a woman who asks men out, but those generally aren’t the same person. The more traditional you are and the more traditional you expect your future spouse to be, the more labor you should expect to put into dating and courtship if you are a guy. Remember, there are women who believe in asking men out. We call them “feminists.”

I wasn’t super demure with my future husband (I confess to inviting him early on to a dinner party which was largely a pretext on my part for smooching afterward), but you don’t want somebody like me.

Well I definitely don’t want a feminist wife!

 

[Xantippe]

Also, to this day, there are huge taboos that surround a woman’s being “too forward” and those taboos would probably be especially powerful for a nice, faithful young Catholic woman. (A slightly older woman might be a little more forward without being other than nice and faithful. You see how many assertive older ladies there are on CAF.)

There are all sorts of words and phrases traditionally used to express “too forward” and one of the more CAF-friendly ones that comes to mind is “brazen hussy.”

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Well I definitely don’t want a feminist wife!

They might get too uppity?

 

[white_sheep]

So is it wrong for a virgin to want to find a virgin to marry? Or even for a non-virgin to want to marry a virgin if they have committed themselves to chastity? Some of these comments make it sound like I should have wanted my wife to have had sex with at least a dozen other men before we started dating, or that I should have had sex with at least a dozen other women first.

I think these comments are coming from a position of defensiveness. Yes, you have lost something when you have had premarital sex, something you can never get back. No, you aren’t worthless.

Are we supposed to just gloss over it as if nothing had happened? Is it really of no consequence at all? Is it not better to be virgins when you marry? That’s my bottom line question. The way some people are talking it doesn’t seem like they think that.

Personally I do think it makes a difference. It isn’t the end of the world or anything, so don’t act like I am saying it is the end all be all. At a certain age it becomes impractical to look for a virgin, probably around 25.

We were both virgins. I don’t pass judgement on anyone else, but when I was looking that was definitely a criteria. Perhaps it wasn’t a critical one, I don’t remember, but it wasn’t a minor issue either. I know it is rare that two virgins get married these days, but that is still the ideal, and in my opinion, to be preferred. I see no reason why a girl who is a virgin shouldn’t look for a man who is one as well. She might have trouble finding one or find a man she likes who isn’t, and that’s fine, it isn’t as if pre-marital sex makes one a leper or anything, but don’t act as if it is of no consequence. Perhaps it is a defect on my part, but I wouldn’t want to marry a woman who had slept with someone else.

My comments are directed towards young people on their first marriage and in no way include widows or divorced people. I see sex within marriage as nothing to worry about, I just wouldn’t count that as being the same as premarital sex. Also, there’s a difference to me I think with someone who just had a weak night and someone who has had sex with their last 10 boyfriends.