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Pophead
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Well, then you must have more than one spirit in you, for the Spirit of Christ in me cries Abba Father.
pophead.
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whatevergirl
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I know the passage, and I agree.
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Pophead
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Cavbiker
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You know, if there ever has a direct way to say " In the event of my death, you will be in charge" it would be these verses. So I too believe them and I agree as well:thumbsup:
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Theodore
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And when the Angle had come to her he said " Hail, full of grace, the lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women" Luke1,28
(a) Either the Angle was confused or Christ was born of a sinfull woman.
(b) To be full of Grace would mean to have no sin.
(c) To be blessed among women would also indicate to me that she would be without sin, and was not capable of committing sin.
For the only thing that can come out of the bottle is what ever it was full of…
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Theodore
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Amen !! I also seem to recollect that Luther had a great fear of Hell, because of his erronous beleive in predestination …
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latinmasslover
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You *don’t *know the context, which is why you disagree. The Spirit that you speak of having is the Spirit of a false christ. Read your Bible, in doesn’t contradict Catholicism one bit, unless you don’t trust God: “As also in all *his *epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to ther own destruction. You therefore, brethren, knowing these things before, take heed, lest being led aside by the error of the unwise, you fall from your own steadfastness.” 2 Peter 3:16-17I know the context, and disagree.
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Nella
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Yes, I admire Martin Luther and his courage, maybe not his vulgarities but his unwillingness to waiver in his quest for truth.
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swariffin
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Yes, as a Catholic I admire Martin Luther not for his theological reform. His theological reform, I believe, come from the misinterpretation of the letter of St. Paul to the Roman. I admire him because from what he did (and he did it bravely), our Catholic church could revive from the dark age. We should listen to all of his messages, think about them carefully, and use them as a mirror to ourselves. Surely I believe that our Catholic church did some mistakes in the past, especially during the 1500’s. Fortunately no doctrine came from that period. I do admire our late pope John Paul II, for his daring acknowledgement of the church wrong doing in the past. It was not an easy decision to do so. By the way, I do not believe that Martin Luther is 100% anti-catholic. His followers do.
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Theodore
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What thruths are these ?
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allofgrace
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That is like saying “I admire so-and-so because he bravely put poison into the wine of the king.” How much of Luther’s ACTUAL WRITINGS have you read? Yes, there was good mixed with the error but that is a trait of Lucifer as well as Luther. From 1979 to the present day I’ve read and studied the Reformation with emphasis on Luther’s own writings. The romanticized biographies of Luther (by Protestants) speak of him as a genius - that man was no genius, he was Bipolar II with psychotic episodes and that is a fact. There are several psychiatric analyses of him; he was an excellent subject for it. Freud would have had a heyday with him. His “The Jews and their Lies” was a favorite of Adolph Hitler who considered Luther a hero.
Read as much of Luther as I’ve read over nearly three decades and come back and tell me how much he is to be admired. Even Protestants don’t know the half of it and when they learn (as I did) they become Catholic (as I did). I literally walked out the door of my Protestant church and wiped my feet on the mat going out.
54 years Protestant and 14 wonderful years Catholic
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Theodore
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My sentiments exactly, how can you admire any one that has led others astray, regardless of what his intent was. But then again some people find it easier to jump ship when the going gets tough. As Scripture says "Therefore, brothers, stand firm . Hold fast to the traditions you received from us, either by word or by letter. 2Thess 2,15 So as for admiration, i admire those who stay on and fight the good fight, like those Saints and Doctors of the Church…
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Ellen_G
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A Religious Ed Teacher once told me that Christianity was death and Reurrection – I asked him for a simple definition ! Our Lord died once and for all for us sinners. St Paul stated that had he not risen from the dead, our faith would be in vain, Our Lord told us that we have to be Holy, like his Father in Heaven – I think He was asked how that was to be possible, and Our Lord said that for man it was impossible,but for God,all things were possible.For me, that means we have to have a personal relationship with Christ and co-operate with the graces He offers us every moment of our life. Luther made a Big Mistake, but as always, God can use those mistakes and bring about Good – Have seen it many times in my own life. In Medjugorje a few years ago, I shared a Faith experience with one of the priests in our group, after He shared His with me --He felt the Hand Of God pick him up as he was drowning in Lake Michigan. I mentioned to him that I wondered why everyone didn’t have such an encounter, like St Paul did. He told me that he believed that everyone had that opportunity @ the hour of their death. I once asked a priest Psychologist whether one could see a loving God, if they had not had the proper love in their developmental life. He told me that the only statement he could make on my question was that all those who went on to be saints had experienced God as love @ some point in their life --searching is much of the battle. Only God knows where each of us it at. St Paul stated that He didn’t know himself. Luther had alife size picture of the Blessed Mother in his library, and also a crucifix. He stated @ the end of his life that the Catholic church was a tough one to live in, but so loving when it came to death. I would like to think that our Lord took Luther’s mistakes and brought about a good. We can only try to judge the present moment and that’s a tough one in our complicated, mixed up world. It is a scary world without Faith and the Grace of God. Pope John Paul stated that 2 things were important: 1. Personal relationship with Christ and # 2. A good sense of Humor. And he told us: Not to Worry ! A couple of the best books I have read were written by Luthern Scholars – One on Mary and the other on What St Paul really thought about Women. This is not to say that the Catholic church doesn’t have the fullness of Faith. Christ turned over the Church to St Peter and told him that the gates of hell would not prevail against him.It is time for each of us to take inventory and live our life according to our Christian principles. I have a gut feeling that Luther, like St Augustine, would have said: Lord, it is late that I have loved Thee. I have as probably a best friend who is Non Catholic. I believe that I’m a better Catholic and person because of our friendship and She teases me that she feels like a Catholic through association. Personally, I’d like to add Luther to our Church Calendar ! Oh My Jesus, forgive us our sins, lead all souls to Heaven, especially those who have most need of Thy Mercy. Mother Mary, Pray for us.
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Theodore
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I only said that i didn’t admire him !!
as for judging him i’ll leave that to OUR LORD who knows what’s in each persons heart.So like i said, anyone who tries to tear the BODY OF CHRIST apart, i myself, do not admire. As for the rest i couldn’t agree with you more… except for adding Luther to the Church calendar. By the way be carefull of gut feelings it could lead you up the garden path. So listen to sound doctrine and know your Catechism, also check out “Medjugorje” last i heard the church had not given its approval. Mary, Queen of Heaven, Pray for us,so that soon we will all be united as one…
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jedi
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I DO NOT ADMIRE HIM… he is only doing his own work, his own religion, his own purposes…
but he’s a happy man now he so popular, he got his own Lutheran Church…
but i don’t care…i said again…I DO NOT ADMIRE HIM…
I ADMIRE AND LOVE JESUS CHRIST not martin luther
but he’s a happy man now he so popular, he got his own Lutheran Church…
but i don’t care…i said again…I DO NOT ADMIRE HIM…
I ADMIRE AND LOVE JESUS CHRIST not martin luther
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Nella
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I think you may have overlooked many facts to just merely come to the conclusion that your church is right and Martin Luther was wrong. Martin Luther was a very devout Catholic monk who was ignored in his attempts to reform the churches teachings and had no choice but to take his followers and go elsewhere.
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allofgrace
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After you have read the translations of Luther’s actual writings, then AND ONLY THEN, come back and tell us how devout Martin Luther was and how he tried to reform anything. In order to reform you have to have the intent and make the effort to re-establish that which was from the beginning. Luther did not do that and SAYS THAT HE DIDN’T.
Ever see his commentaries on the woodcuts made by his friend Cranach where the pope is being born from the devil’s rectum and the devil is defacating in the pope’s tiara, etc. etc. Look at some of the REAL FACTS and then come and tell us how devout he was. If he was a devout monk then he would not have broken his vows.
Perhaps someone should start a thread telling us what Hitler REALLY MEANT to do in his compassion and foresight. Everyone here would call that ignorance. Unless you’ve become very familiar with Luther over almost three decades of reading his writngs, you only know what you’ve been taught and you’ll cling to it in order to preserve your beliefs so I don’t blame you - but I sure wish you folks would study the roots of your “faith.”
The facts are there and I’m not going to argue about it. To read the actual works of Martin Luther is to read Martin Luther’s worst enemy.
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St_Violet
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Reform isn’t as easy as one-two-three, Luther simply left the Church because it was too difficult for him to get his way within the Church, even though there have been people who sucessfully reformed the Church with difficultly as well.
would Luther have left the Church if The Church indeed changed in benefitting Luther even if Indulgences were still being sold?. I kinda doubt it, I know Luther misunderstand what indulgences actually were and used this to promote his own doctrine.
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mgrfin
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Modern day Lutherans are well aware of Luther’s personal life, and what a mess it really was.
The Protestant historians I have read ignore his morals, cause they are indefensible. Some Catholic historians try to set the record straight, saying how vile and what a ‘potty’ mouth he had, and how he did not lead by example.
Martin saves his worst epithets for the Pope, some of which you have quoted. But he disliked St. Thomas Aquinas (maybe because Thomas was a Dominican, but mostly cause he was organized, and put his theology into a system), maybe cause he couldn’t follow that Scholastic reasoning method. He disliked Moses and the Decalogue, cause ‘commandments’ fitted into that category of ‘works’ and ‘the law’, which Luther dispensed with by his ‘faith only’ policy.
His translation of the Bible into German was not the first attempt at such a translation, but his was garbage. His followers salvaged it, and continued to follow around after him picking up his refuse.
Lutherans more and more are fighting with each other over such momentous issues as gay and lesbian marriage, women ‘priests’ and that sort of thing, like the Anglicans.
Catholics don’t have to say a thing, and as a matter of fact we are better off not saying anything. Let them tear at each other, and they will find they have nothing to be united about.
We should pray for them, that they maintain their faith, hope and love in Jesus, which is really the only thing that matters.
peace,
mgrfin
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Nella
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So what you are saying is that Luther’s actions had no spiritual value to them and that his intentions were all negative and the Catholic church needed absolutely nothing that Luther said it needed.
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