Do you agree with this man's exegesis? He says sinners just die...

[distracted]

I am saying that any person from any religion can “excuse” their actions by saying the line “Gods ways are higher than ours”, such as 9/11.

and those who are godless excuse what thye do/teach (abortion… ) by saying there is no absolute truth … and of course thye should have the freedom to believe what they want and impose those ammoral beliefs on others (the unborn). We can’t please everyone. We should all be trying to please that One whom we are all going to meet some day… unless, of course, you are planning on living forever on Earth?

That is why I need something with more substance and specificity to Catholicism in order to accept an idea as being accurate.

maybe you’ll find it when you stop searching with your mind… (only)… i don’t know… all i know is that God wants all to be saved & he calls everyone… If people reject Him that’s their choice…

)I need clarity in order to have the foundation necessary for belief.

if you need clarity to believe, you will never believe. But again, you choose to not believe…

That line gives no specific clarity. For minor things sure, I can dismiss them, but not for major things. As to the Bible being the word of God, I honestly don’t know.

what is minor to humans is not necessarily minor to God…

, it was talking about punishment being eternal (I have no problem with limited punishment), and that faith is not like a lightswitch, it can not be turned on and off at will.

actually it can be… if a person chooses to do that…

There’s a big part in Catholicism that says the correct faith is a critical component of salvation – that does not make sense to me looking at the general disposition of most of the world.

so just cuz there are opposing opinions and beliefs in the world means that there is no absolute truth? None of the “churches” can be trusted just cuz there are so many of them??? hmmm… Truth doesn’t change and God established ONE Church to impart His truth to the world… Only the Roman Catholic Church (of all “christian” churches) has been around since the Asenscion of Christ… God is not the author of confusion… but man… different story…

Yes – this is exactly what I want to point out – there are those of us who read the words and the opposite happens – they only get more confused! I’m telling you of my own experience, and I was once a devout Roman Catholic.

define “devout”?? i know people who call themselves Catholic but who are pro-abortion… I’ve had my moments w/ the Church myself… No, wait… not true… I’ve never had a problem with the Church, meaning its official teachings… but i’ve had numerous problems with its members who often seem to be antyhin BUT Christian… a bunch of hypocrites… but people are people… the Church teachings can be trusted…

 

[distracted]

I . The faith simply doesn’t make sense to me anymore. It looks like a foreign language now.

and that is a problem w/ the Church and not YOU??? Why is the Church wrong and not you??? You are a fallible human being… Why do you trust your “reality”??? I’ve found that humans have an endless capacity to rationalize & deceive themselves… which is why most poeple (according to Jesus himself and the saints…) go to Hell… (St Mt 7:13, 21… St Lk 13:24… etc)

y is very easy to say that something you see as the truth should be easy for everyone else to see, but it is not.

murder is not just wrong for one person. It is not right for one person but wrong for another… and why should murder be the only sin this logic applies to?? If murder is wrong for everyone maybe artif b control is wron for everyone? and the Church tht Christ establishsed on Earth says it is… If you believe that Christ establihsed One Church only… then you have to ask yourself, which one is it? I have studeid this relatively in-depth and i KNOW the RCC is the Church Christ established… i have no doubt whatsoever…

Really I’m not arguing that a person should or should not get what they want after death, I’m arguing that eternal punishment for 100 years of wrongdoing seems extremely disproportionate and thus unjust.

there are many things we will never u/stand about God… until we go to be with Him and i hope ALL do… but i have absolutely NO problem believing that most people end up in Hell… If you had my experiences/knowledge, etc… you would have no trouble believing that either… its because peoiple don’t WANT God… All those who really search for God find Him… Of course there are those who believe in God and know that he is LOVE and all that, but they don’t love his ways… his laws… so they don’t really love him… There are many who … as the Word says… cast his words behind them… and i don’t mean just the written Word… Even if a person doesn’t know the written word, it is written on his heart whne born… (conscience)… if you go against your conscience enough… pretty soon you don’t have one… you have convinced yourself that your rejection of God’s laws is no big deal… etc… but somewhere inside, we all know what is right & wrong… I don’t buy it when people say they don’t know something like abortion or homosexuality is wrong… They are lying to themselves & others… but you can’t lie to God…

God can’t be unjust so there’s something wrong somewhere down the line. You can’t really compare 100 years to eternity, especially an eternity of suffering. I don’t know if you have ever worked with or lived with people in chronic pain before, but an eternity of it is hard to fathom being good.

the pain in Hell is spiritual… I’m sure it is something none of us who are not there understand… but its the pain that occurs when you go against your conscience… Hell was made for Satan and his demons… Humans end up there because they eternally have chosen Satan over God… it just makes sense that if you choose to become a demon, you will go where the demons are…

Honestly, the older I get, the more it does appear that God, to me, seems to be a hands-off God. Looking at the world, this makes a lot of sense to me. I really don’t see the vast intervention you mention.

the human mind/heart get cluttered from living in a godless world… So of course its going to be hard to see God with all that clutter… and distraction… but He can be found… so there is no excuse…

I read Romans 1, but can you explain this in more detail? How does nature specifically allude to Catholicism above all others?

Catholicism is the only one that doesn’t thwart nature… contraception, homosexuality… divorce/remarriage… Divorce/remarriage is unnatural. What we have today is serial monogymy, which is a contradition in terms cuz it is far from monogymous… but in any case… Sin goes against nature… the Church does not…

 

[Aleii]

distracted, by your responses, I am wondering if you read my post #49?

 

[distracted]

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Wow, this is ** offensive**, ]

it is just as judgmental to say someone is definitely NOT going to Hell as it is to say that s/he IS going to Hell… that’s all i meant… didn’t mean to offend.

 

[distracted]

distracted, by your responses, I am wondering if you read my post #49?

it would be a lot easier to respond if you would put just one or two 'issues" in your post… not a 1000

i get overwhelmed when there is too much in a post to address… Religion is more complex than it … uh…should be… cuz humans are complex… so some things are not so easily explained or whatever…

 

[distracted]

distracted, by your responses, I am wondering if you read my post #49?

I’ve just read it, have no idea how i missed it…

now i will go back and try to respond to ONE thing (at a time)

 

[distracted]

distracted, by your responses, I am wondering if you read my post #49?

ok, i found this one thing:

maybe you got burnt out on all that… Ctholic stuff… all the novenas and etc… (?) i don’t know… i think a lot of times people have emotional or other kinds of issues & they get that mixed up with their religion / spirtuality…

i mean, if you are… say physically hungry… its hard to focus on [whatever]… So you could be in the very presence of Christ, which is (of course) always edifying and uplifting and etc… etc… but if you are physically very hungry, you are going to be thinking of FOOD (for the body)… If you are emotionally messed up cuz… say your signific other just told you to take a hike… same thing…

When i go to the real Presence, i just sit in total silence… In fact, I have found that being asleep in the Real Presence does me the most good, probably because when you are asleep, you can’t resist Jesus in any way… He takes over… (sigh)… wish i could experience that now… but anyhow…

on another thread talking about the born-again experience… i have said and totally believe that a person needs to go through this experience in order to enter heaven… can’t prove it but “know” just the same… Or if a person is trying to live the way Jesus wants and doesn’t go thro that on Eath s/he will go thro it in Purg…

maybe you haven’t been thro that??

I think i need more info on your background, spriitually

 

[PJM]

=distracted;6844685]worldtocome.org/player.html?s_kwcid=TC|20361|life%20after%20death|www.buzzle.com|C|e|5032373387#!Item=557654,1

I haven’t heard the entire video, but so far, this guy contradicts the Catholic teachings on Hell… (the saints, etc)

This theory is “anti-biblical” in that it pooposes clear biblical teachings.

It ignores that all of humanity [and no other living thing] has a mind, intelect, freewill connected to our souls allowing us [and only humanity] to freely chose God or t deny God. OUR CHOICE = heaven or hell.

It denies God’s Perfect, absolutely necessary fairness and Divine Justice and God’s RIGHT and GRAVE MORAL obligation to apply it.

It presumes despite TONS of biblical evidence that sin has to consequences…REDICILOUS:shrug:

And it actually Denies God as a Diety and Soverign being [the unpardonable sin!]

Foolish are those who follow such poorly thought out positions!

 

[distracted]

This theory is “anti-biblical” in that it pooposes clear biblical teachings.

It ignores that all of humanity [and no other living thing] has a mind, intelect, freewill connected to our souls allowing us [and only humanity] to freely chose God or t deny God. OUR CHOICE = heaven or hell.

It denies God’s Perfect, absolutely necessary fairness and Divine Justice and God’s RIGHT and GRAVE MORAL obligation to apply it.

It presumes despite TONS of biblical evidence that sin has to consequences…REDICILOUS:shrug:

And it actually Denies God as a Diety and Soverign being [the unpardonable sin!]

Foolish are those who follow such poorly thought out positions!

someone once compared going by the bible alone to a fish out of water… the bible is a fish out of water w/o the teaching magisterium of the Church to interpret it for us… yes, a lot of the bible is easy enough for a child to understand… but not all of it is… and even if one does u/stand the bible, we need MORE than the Bible alone… because for one thing, the OT is hard to … understand… Why would God have children killed??? and that kind of thing.*** If the Bible was all I had… i would NOT be a Christian… or not a very committed one… It is the Real Presence of Christ in the Church that cinches it for me… and the MASS, which is being in the presence of all the angels & saints as well… ***

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[PJM]

=distracted;6933964]someone once compared going by the bible alone to a fish out of water… the bible is a fish out of water w/o the teaching magisterium of the Church to interpret it for us… yes, a lot of the bible is easy enough for a child to understand… but not all of it is… and even if one does u/stand the bible, we need MORE than the Bible alone… because for one thing, the OT is hard to … understand… Why would God have children killed??? and that kind of thing.*** If the Bible was all I had… i would NOT be a Christian… or not a very committed one… It is the Real Presence of Christ in the Church that cinches it for me… and the MASS, which is being in the presence of all the angels & saints as well… ***

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AMEN! Oh, how I believe!

 

[distracted]

AMEN! Oh, how I believe!

its amazing the man-made religions people will believe in…

like the one that teaches that in Heaven men will have more than one wife… Of course wives won’t have more than one husband… so God is a sexist, i guess… (not that i would want more than one husband by a long shot… but if i can happy w/ one husband & i know i could if he was in love w/ Jesus…] why can’t a man be happy w/ one woman? Geeze…

Jesus said there is NO marriage in Heaven, much less polygymous marriage… but then… Jesus is just one voice among many, i reckon… We need men to confirm his views for us…

then there’s the religion that teaches Hell is the common grave and tht there is no suffering there. If there is suffering on Earth as a consequence to our behavior why isn’t there suffering (consequneces) in the next life? And if there is joy in this life… Same thing… there is endless joy in the next… for those who love God…

 

[PJM]

=distracted; its amazing the man-made religions people will believe in…

like the one that teaches that in Heaven men will have more than one wife… Of course wives won’t have more than one husband… so God is a sexist, i guess… (not that i would want more than one husband by a long shot… but if i can happy w/ one husband & i know i could if he was in love w/ Jesus…] why can’t a man be happy w/ one woman? Geeze…

Jesus said there is NO marriage in Heaven, much less polygymous marriage… but then… Jesus is just one voice among many, i reckon… We need men to confirm his views for us…

then there’s the religion that teaches Hell is the common grave and tht there is no suffering there. If there is suffering on Earth as a consequence to our behavior why isn’t there suffering (consequneces) in the next life? And if there is joy in this life… Same thing… there is endless joy in the next… for those who love God…

I can understand Protestants not understanding the Bible. It’s God’s penalty for not acepting His One Church / One Faith [and ONLY ONE FAITH]. God withholds Wisdom and Understanding.

What puzzels me is there near unamious lack of common sense and plain logic?

we are Created precisely hat we MIGHT Know, Love, Serve and FULLY OBEY Christ.
Isa. 43: 7 & 21 affirm this.

Love and prayers,
Pat

 

[Aleii]

ok, i found this one thing:

maybe you got burnt out on all that… Ctholic stuff… all the novenas and etc… (?) i don’t know… i think a lot of times people have emotional or other kinds of issues & they get that mixed up with their religion / spirtuality…

i mean, if you are… say physically hungry… its hard to focus on [whatever]… So you could be in the very presence of Christ, which is (of course) always edifying and uplifting and etc… etc… but if you are physically very hungry, you are going to be thinking of FOOD (for the body)… If you are emotionally messed up cuz… say your signific other just told you to take a hike… same thing…

When i go to the real Presence, i just sit in total silence… In fact, I have found that being asleep in the Real Presence does me the most good, probably because when you are asleep, you can’t resist Jesus in any way… He takes over… (sigh)… wish i could experience that now… but anyhow…

on another thread talking about the born-again experience… i have said and totally believe that a person needs to go through this experience in order to enter heaven… can’t prove it but “know” just the same… Or if a person is trying to live the way Jesus wants and doesn’t go thro that on Eath s/he will go thro it in Purg…

maybe you haven’t been thro that??

I think i need more info on your background, spriitually

Your post was very insightful! I had not thought about things in that way before - and yes, that absolutely applies to me. I need to “let go and let God” in a broader sense, for the big picture.

Thank you

 

[distracted]

I can understand Protestants not understanding the Bible. It’s God’s penalty for not acepting His One Church / One Faith [and ONLY ONE FAITH]. God withholds Wisdom and Understanding.

What puzzels me is there near unamious lack of common sense and plain logic?

we are Created precisely hat we MIGHT Know, Love, Serve and FULLY OBEY Christ.
Isa. 43: 7 & 21 affirm this.

Love and prayers,
Pat

i don’t know if i would put things this way… Why would God punish protestants who don’t KNOW that they need the Church? i know that ignorance is no excuse… so i realize that ignorant people suffer in their lack of knowledge… just cuz… well, 2 + 2 always equals 4 and nothing else… but punishment implies that the person knows what he was doing wrong… most protestants are raised the way they are and genuinely believe that the Catholic Church is off one way or the other… so they stay away… a lot of them think that the Catholic Church is the LAST one that could possibly be right… Of course i do tend to believe that if a person has reached … say the age of about 70 and still rejects the Church, something is very wrong…

 

[distracted]

Your post was very insightful! I had not thought about things in that way before - and yes, that absolutely applies to me. I need to “let go and let God” in a broader sense, for the big picture.

Thank you

hmm… wasn’t expecting you to say this… about that post of mine… not sure i understand… what i said tht was “insightful”…

i also notice you didn’t say anything about your spiritual background/histoyr… unless i haven’t found it yet??

anyhow… God bless…

 

[PJM]

=distracted;6945161]i don’t know if i would put things this way… Why would God punish protestants who don’t KNOW that they need the Church? i know that ignorance is no excuse… so i realize that ignorant people suffer in their lack of knowledge… just cuz… well, 2 + 2 always equals 4 and nothing else… but punishment implies that the person knows what he was doing wrong… most protestants are raised the way they are and genuinely believe that the Catholic Church is off one way or the other… so they stay away… a lot of them think that the Catholic Church is the LAST one that could possibly be right… Of course i do tend to believe that if a person has reached … say the age of about 70 and still rejects the Church, something is very wrong…

Friend, you ask a GREAT Question.

The answer is a Direct Responce to God’s Divine Justice.

KEEPING IN MIND that the Bible is Divinely Inspired [2 Tim. 3:16-17] so that it is actually God doing the Teaching; NOT the specifi authors, who are but “clay in the hand of the Master Potter,” using there talents as God desired.

So ANY and ALL denial of Biblical Moral and Faith Teaching are a DIRECT affront on God Himself. [John 17: 14-19].

Accepting an edited and shorter verson of the Bible [KJB] rather than that Canonized by the CC and verifid as proof of God’s Divine Will, is an act of Defiance and unbelief.

God morally obligates himself to GRANT SUFFICIENT GRACE to every human person to know Him, learn the truth, accept it and live it. EXAMPLE: How many have been exposed to thee [SINGULAR] turth on this Forum and chosen to ignore it? [Thinking that they can do so with impunity?]

GOD WLL, BECAUSE GOD HAS TOO JUDGE US BASED ON WHAT HE PERMITS US TO KNOW; NOT SIMPLY BASED ON WHAT WE HAVE BEEN TAUGHT IN ERROR; OR FREELY CHOOSE NOT TO ACCEPT. That is Devine Justice. That is God’s way.

Because there are millions of non-Catholics and none-practicing -Catholics, who could, with some humility and effort know God’s truth; but freely choose not too despite opportunites and Grace given to them; God makes the task more difficult for them as they are already in a state of disobedience to God and His Word.

We pray on “The Lords Prayer” “THY WILL BE DONE,” and then soooo many proceed do do there own thing. God cannot an most certainly will not ignore these continued affronts to His Goodness, and continued rejection of His Grace.

Love and prayers,
Pat

 

[distracted]

Friend, you ask a GREAT Question.

The answer is a Direct Responce to God’s Divine Justice.

KEEPING IN MIND that the Bible is Divinely Inspired [2 Tim. 3:16-17] so that it is actually God doing the Teaching; NOT the specifi authors, who are but “clay in the hand of the Master Potter,” using there talents as God desired.

So ANY and ALL denial of Biblical Moral and Faith Teaching are a DIRECT affront on God Himself. [John 17: 14-19].

Accepting an edited and shorter verson of the Bible [KJB] rather than that Canonized by the CC and verifid as proof of God’s Divine Will, is an act of Defiance and unbelief.

God morally obligates himself to GRANT SUFFICIENT GRACE to every human person to know Him, learn the truth, accept it and live it. EXAMPLE: How many have been exposed to thee [SINGULAR] turth on this Forum and chosen to ignore it? [Thinking that they can do so with impunity?]

GOD WLL, BECAUSE GOD HAS TOO JUDGE US BASED ON WHAT HE PERMITS US TO KNOW; NOT SIMPLY BASED ON WHAT WE HAVE BEEN TAUGHT IN ERROR; OR FREELY CHOOSE NOT TO ACCEPT. That is Devine Justice. That is God’s way.

Because there are millions of non-Catholics and none-practicing -Catholics, who could, with some humility and effort know God’s truth; but freely choose not too despite opportunites and Grace given to them; God makes the task more difficult for them as they are already in a state of disobedience to God and His Word.

We pray on “The Lords Prayer” “THY WILL BE DONE,” and then soooo many proceed do do there own thing. God cannot an most certainly will not ignore these continued affronts to His Goodness, and continued rejection of His Grace.

Love and prayers,
Pat

i basically agree on what you say here…

but when i was out in the world… lost, wandering from one non-catholic church to another… trust me, i was just ignorant… I didnt’ KNOW the CAtholic faith even tho i was … well, what you might call “reaised Catholic”… but all we did was go to Chruch of Sunday… thatwas it… i wasn’t catechized… so i nver realized how important the faith was… how it could have changed things for me… I know it has far mre powr than other “churches” cuz… from experience… I had no power over sin, to speak of, until i came back to the Church, 1st i came back by praying the rosary and eventually i began to go to Church regularly… and then, in a short time i became a fanatical nut-case… but anyhow…

I’m just saying that … well, if i, a “Catholic” could be so ignorant, others are ignorant too…

but i still agree with 99% of what you are saying… and the reason i say that is cuz i eventually DID find the true Church… God helps those who seek Him… He will not abandon someone who is sincerely seeking truth…

As you say… many know the truth but reject it… I think that if anyone hears the TRUE teachings of the Catholic Church s/he will KNOW its the truth… He may pretend to humans that he doesn’t know… but of course, he can’t fool God (or himself, really)…

again, if someone is 70 yrs old and still hasn’t at least considered the Catholic Church as being the right one, something is wrong… very wrong…

 

[PJM]

=distracted;6959728]i basically agree on what you say here…

but when i was out in the world… lost, wandering from one non-catholic church to another… trust me, i was just ignorant… I didnt’ KNOW the CAtholic faith even tho i was … well, what you might call “reaised Catholic”… but all we did was go to Chruch of Sunday… thatwas it… i wasn’t catechized… so i nver realized how important the faith was… how it could have changed things for me… I know it has far mre powr than other “churches” cuz… from experience… I had no power over sin, to speak of, until i came back to the Church, 1st i came back by praying the rosary and eventually i began to go to Church regularly… and then, in a short time i became a fanatical nut-case… but anyhow…

I’m just saying that … well, if i, a “Catholic” could be so ignorant, others are ignorant too…

but i still agree with 99% of what you are saying… and the reason i say that is cuz i eventually DID find the true Church… God helps those who seek Him… He will not abandon someone who is sincerely seeking truth…

As you say… many know the truth but reject it… I think that if anyone hears the TRUE teachings of the Catholic Church s/he will KNOW its the truth… He may pretend to humans that he doesn’t know… but of course, he can’t fool God (or himself, really)…

again, if someone is 70 yrs old and still hasn’t at least considered the Catholic Church as being the right one, something is wrong… very wrong…

We agree

God remains in charge!

Welcome Home!

 

[distracted]

We agree

God remains in charge!

Welcome Home!

thanks…

i’ve been home for a long time, though… well, relatively “long”…

If i had only known it WAS Home… I’d have been Home much, much sooner… very sad when people don’t u/stand what all Jesus has done for them… how worhty of our love and devotion He is… (OVERY worthy, of course )Protestants don’t have a clue… in my opinion… yes, they know Jesus… but they do not have ALL that He wants for us to have…