Do you agree with transgenderism

[Thorolfr]

I have read that most transgenders do not wish to have surgery to change or modify or reconstruct their genitals. In any case, surgery of any kind will not change their actual sex. I do not know whether a person who transitions to a different sex wishes to date or marry a person of their original sex or of the opposite sex. Does a transwoman want to marry a cis-man even if they both have male genitals?

Sexual orientation and gender identity are two different things. So if a transgender person who is male-to-female was gay before they transitioned, they will still be attracted to men as a trans-woman. But if they were heterosexual before they transitioned, then a male-to-female trans-woman will still be attracted to women.

 

[PJH_74]

I suspect that most people who are opposed are opposed to the very notion that a person should identify with a gender other than the one usually associated with their birth sex regardless of whether they ever have surgery or not.

I definitely agree. I also wonder if those so opposed realize that their assertions generate much of the pressure individuals feel to have surgeries performed. Though I don’t truly agree, I can see those who oppose modification of genitalia and its reproductive impacts as a sort of line in the sand.

I know Catholics will point to Catholic teaching on the subject, but the Bible on LGBTQ questions is almost obsessively concerned with men compromising their “manly” status. Even today, my though experience, is that the idea of transgender identity centers rapidly on male to female people. I think one is morally required to reconcile their thoughts on male to female and female to male scenarios as the blatant fact is that MtF

 

[HarryStotle]

This book is authored by a Research Fellow at the Heritage Foundation (a Republican, very conservative think-tank). His degree is in Political Philosophy, so, I would consider this book to be very much an opinion piece.

Disclaimer, I started reading it and did not finish it.

So, your opinion is that his work is merely an “opinion piece” based upon the fact that he is a Fellow at a Republican and Conservative think-tank?

That would imply that you base your analysis of the writing of anyone you read upon their political views.

Apparently, if they are conservative or Republican their opinions are merely opinions.

I suppose, then that if they are Democrat and progressive they must be, by your definition, factually true and accurate – and not merely opinions – purely on the basis of their leftist political leanings.

I see.

Politics, then, is the lens through which the nature and truth of all reality is determined.

 

[HarryStotle]

I don’t think the Church has a set view on this like it does with homosexuality. Personally I see it as a phase as He created us and we shouldn’t mess with His work.
But curious as to how most Catholics see (is it transgenderism?)?

This article pretty much sums up where I stand on transgenderism.

https://medium.com/@s.r.allen/if-transwomen-are-women-what-is-a-woman-d36121bdd926

The most relevant point…

In brief, if we say that being a woman has nothing to do with having female biology, as is required by accepting that transwomen are women, then there are three unattractive options: (1) being a woman is essentially tied to traditional social stereotypes of what being a woman involves; (2) there is no difference between women or men, or a large number of people are both or neither; or, (3) it is impossible to tell whether someone is a woman or not. None of these three options is a workable definition of ‘woman’ and yet, if we remove external checks on which male-bodied people are permitted to apply for a Gender Recognition Certificate and thereby legally become women under a new version of the UK Gender Recognition Act, the law will be committed to at least one of these three options.
As a philosopher, I find it profoundly worrying that the law could be based on such an incoherent definition; at the very least, the application process for a Gender Recognition Certificate should retain the requirement for medical and/or legal approval to lend some credence to the process, although there are problems even with this option.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

suppose, then that if they are Democrat and progressive they must be, by your definition, factually true and accurate – and not merely opinions – purely on the basis of their leftist political leanings.

It could easily be that she regards politics as opinion regardless of the party.

 

[Thorolfr]

So, your opinion is that his work is merely an “opinion piece” based upon the fact that he is a Fellow at a Republican and Conservative think-tank?

Or maybe she thinks it’s just an opinion piece because the author’s “degree is in Political Philosophy.” Maybe she thinks that having a degree in political philosophy doesn’t make someone an expert in transgender people who knows more about them than the medical doctors and psychologists who treat them.

 

[HarryStotle]

HarryStotle:

suppose, then that if they are Democrat and progressive they must be, by your definition, factually true and accurate – and not merely opinions – purely on the basis of their leftist political leanings.

It could easily be that she regards politics as opinion regardless of the party.

That could be.

However, if all politics is purely opinion, then there is no verifiable basis upon which to make political decisions. That would imply there are no objective grounds for political decision making. Where, do you suppose, that gets us, if that is our starting point?

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

It’s not my view so I don’t really know.

 

[TheLittleLady]

The author is not a medical professional, not a scientist. I’m going to seek out professional politicos as experts in politics, not in scientific matters.

 

[HarryStotle]

HarryStotle:

So, your opinion is that his work is merely an “opinion piece” based upon the fact that he is a Fellow at a Republican and Conservative think-tank?

Or maybe she thinks it’s just an opinion piece because the author’s “degree is in Political Philosophy.” Maybe she thinks that having a degree in political philosophy doesn’t make someone an expert in transgender people who knows more about them than the medical doctors and psychologists who treat them.

I suppose that would mean those politicians or political scientists who push hard for progressive values determining political decision-making should also abstain from promoting such causes because political types, in general, know little about transgender people and their condition.

Yeah, no. The problem is that the supposed affliction is being used as a wedge to change the political landscape and deny dissenting opinions, even those of medical and psychiatric experts who disagree with the progressives regarding how best to treat or deal with the condition.

You seem to side with one view regarding transgenderism and often support a specific set of political means to ameliorate the problem. So that would be you wading into the political arena and imposing your values upon it. What makes you or the medical practitioners you happen to agree with the ones who ought to determine political policy-making?

What is it that makes your like-minded medical “experts” the de facto determiners of political decisions even above those with expertise and degrees in political philosophy?

 

[Jimbo]

Some of the complaints I have seen are in the details. If ‘Acceptable’ means ‘We want you to be as healthy as possible, and will make accomodations’ I’ve seen many willing to do that. If ‘Acceptable’ means ‘We’re going to treat you as the gender with which you identify, regardless of your biological sex’ in things like locker rooms and athletics, then we have an issue.

Trans people are people, and hence should be treated with all dignity and respect possible. But they also don’t exist in a vacuum; and it’s not necessarily fair to do things like let a trans woman compete in a womans athletic event.

 

[PJH_74]

But they also don’t exist in a vacuum; and it’s not necessarily fair to do things like let a trans woman compete in a womans athletic event.

It’s interesting to me that the focus often inevitably on transwomen. Trans men in something like a locker room are very obvious, testosterone is very effective compared to estrogen. Also, no one seems all that concerned about trans men who are legally on testosterone taking a medically prescribed amount. The reality is that international sports already check hormone levels for cheating purposes, maybe the same should be done.

It has been recently discussed that having separate boys and girls teams might be better served by having multiple levels, wrestling already does this with weight classes. This give athletes an opportunity to compete with other athletes of about the same level. Remember sport is not always or solely about physical characteristics. Football for example has positions where agility, decision making, or kicking ability are paramount. There’s certainly no reason girls need to be locked out of Football, Baseball, or Wrestling, the system is not equitable as it stands regardless of any trans questions.

 

[Jimbo]

It’s interesting to me that the focus often inevitably on transwomen

Mainly because the examples I’ve read about recently are those of biological males who are trans women, who have dominated their sports.

As to the locker room, it may be that there are those men who are not comfortable with biological females in the locker room. I wouldn’t be. But I wouldn’t be threatened. I know personally women who, due to sexual assault, would be very threatened by a biological male in the locker room.

Remember sport is not always or solely about physical characteristics. Football for example has positions where agility, decision making, or kicking ability are paramount.

True. But it is a dominant one.

It may be that you have a woman who can play in the NFL or division one college football. But it isn’t very common, and likely won’t be. It’s probably more likely in other sports. I’ve wrestled and done Judo for years and seen women who are very tough and can compete with anyone. But again, it’s not the norm that they will compete at the same level as men. Testosterone is one factor, but other factors exist as well; hip biology, knee biology, etc.

We can’t say ‘Let’s be compassionate to Trans people’ and then just ignore the concerns of others.

So let’s address them as they wish (but lets not make it somehow illegal or illicit to if you don’t). Lets let them dress as they wish. If they are adults, and they want surgery, have at it. If they don’t, I’d encourage them to be happy as they are but to live the life they can as much as they want and can.

But let’s not pretend that their gender dysphoria isn’t also an unfortunate situation that might also have some limitations for them. That’s sad. But it isn’t prejudicial.

 

[njlisa]

@Dougbro1

With all due respect I never said they were evil. What I am referring to is people who are definitely one gender, no intersex etc. and then decide they are the opposite gender. For the people you refer to I feel bad for the confusion they have. In all honesty, I never heard of that until now. As people created in the image and likeness of God, they still deserve respect. I never write the people I hear of living today as 100% good or 100% evil. I do pray for people who are like this, though.
God Bless!

Hi, Liam:

I’m sorry for my use of the word “evil.” It has nothing to do with your statements.

I brought up the topic of intersex people to challenge my own thinking about transgenderism.

God allows for a genetic anomaly that creates intersex people. I’m pointing out (to myself) that their condition is morally neutral (i.e. not evil.)

Where do I go from there? Transgenderism is not a liberal trend. It was documented in the scientific literature in the 19th century. Would anybody choose this way of life as a lark or as a way to defy god? I have no idea.

Once again, I apologize. If you have any ideas that would enhance my understanding please feel free to respond.

God bless you.

 

[Startingcatholic]

I usually look at transgenderism with an argument similar to homosexuality. It’s not the persons fault they suffer from dysphoric or homosexual thoughts but it is their responsibility to not act on them. For example getting a gender reassignment surgery, doing Drag, etc.

 

[ASC]

I say that boys are boys and girls are girls, no matter what they choose to say or how they choose to mutilate their bodies to “change sex.”
But LGBTQ+ is a huge problem for Catholics. It even bears similarities to the Holocaust. “Who controls the youth controls the future,” and I’ve seen bookstores full of board books to tell kids that it’s “all ok.” By the time my younger siblings grow up, they might not be able to become lawyers or doctors or teachers. Those licenses will be withheld from them, just as they would be from a member of the KKK. Trust me: I’m young, I’ve seen it. Catholic schools will be shut down for refusing to teach that homosexuality is ok. Many people already think that they should be. I don’t agree that this is a passing fad. It’s not about the people who actually identify as LGBT; they aren’t the problem. The problem is everyone else who firmly believes that saying that two men living together isn’t ok is like saying that it’s not ok to be black.
Just saying that “as long as it doesn’t affect me,” is a short-lived solution. It will affect you and, even more, it will affect your children.

 

[drac16]

In one of the ancient mystery religions, the priests of the pagan goddess Cybele were in some sense transgender. They were men who cut off their genitals. They were also very effeminate; they had long hair, wore lots of make-up and walked around in women’s clothing. Transgenderism is, therefore, much older than most people think.

I don’t agree with transgenderism. I think it’s blasphemous to suggest that God made someone with the wrong body parts. That is, in essence, their postulation; they believe that they were born in the wrong body.

 

[CRV]

Not having read the previous 118 posts …

No. I don’t agree with it. I think these people are suffering some type of psychological illness and need medical/mental therapy/support/treatment to help them come to accept reality as it is, not as they wish/want it to be. The way I see it is, there must be some deep underlying dissatisfaction with who they are, to want to be ‘other’ than they are.

Especially very young children, they often go through stages for various reasons wanting to be the opposite sex or like dressing up (3yr olds for example clomping around in mommys high heels and playing dress up) but if gently steered in the right biological direction, they usually grow out of it. As my son did. I think it is a mistake for parents to give into childrens fantasies. We don’t expect them to make career choices until they’re much older, so how can a 4 or 5 year old “know” they are in the wrong body?

 

[ASC]

I think it’s blasphemous to suggest that God made someone with the wrong body parts. That is, in essence, their postulation; they believe that they were born in the wrong body.

When I’ve made this point to friends in the past, their answer runs like this: “I’m not saying that God gave me the wrong body. But I think that he gave me gender dysphoria as a cross to bear, so that during my journey of self-discovery I will become the person he wants me to be.” Obviously this answer is a faulty argument in many ways, but I just thought that I’d throw that out there.

 

[Thorolfr]

No. I don’t agree with it. I think these people are suffering some type of psychological illness and need medical/mental therapy/support/treatment to help them come to accept reality as it is, not as they wish/want it to be. The way I see it is, there must be some deep underlying dissatisfaction with who they are, to want to be ‘other’ than they are.

I’m sure that most transgender people already receive “medical/mental therapy/support/treatment” of some kind. It’s probably required before a transgender person is allowed to transition. And if it was easy to fix the problem with some sort of talk therapy and an antidepressant or something like that, I’m sure that that is what doctors would be doing. But that approach has apparently not been effective at eliminating gender dysphoria. And this gender dysphoria that many transgender people suffer from is undoubtedly more than just a little “dissatisfaction with who they are”.