Do you agree with transgenderism

[Chuck65]

It is a mental illness. We used to try to help the mentally ill recover, now our society seems to think that we should embrace and celebrate it.

 

[njlisa]

Dear Friends:

I don’t understand the genesis of transgenderism. The best I can do is be compassionate toward people who have gender dysphoria. These are some points I have reflected on.

No. 1 (which I posted elsewhere)

Transgenderism is not a 20th century liberal invention. The matter was studied in the 19th century as a sexual pathology. (I’m not using that term as a slur. I’m using it as description.)

For more details, please consult "Psychopathia Sexualis" by Richard von Krafft-Ebing.

No. 2

We do have the reality of intersex people.

They are born with male and female genitalia. The usual treatment was to convert all intersex babies to girls. Many adult intersex people resent these procedures.

They suffer greatly and deserve our compassion.

No. 3

Being transgender is not fun. Transgender people face mental health problems at a higher rate than the overall population.

 

[ZMystiCat]

Specific to the Catholic Church, Pope Francis has generally been opposed to it, as cited in the USCCB’s own letter of concerns on the matter. The catechism also touches on it in CCC 2297 and 2393:

CCC 2297:

Except when performed for strictly therapeutic medical reasons, directly intended amputations , mutilations , and sterilizations performed on innocent persons are against the moral law.

CCC 2332 - 2333:

Sexuality affects all aspects of the human person in the unity of his body and soul. It especially concerns affectivity, the capacity to love and to procreate, and in a more general way the aptitude for forming bonds of communion with others.

Everyone, man and woman, should acknowledge and accept his sexual identity. Physical, moral, and spiritual difference and complementarity are oriented toward the goods of marriage and the flourishing of family life. The harmony of the couple and of society depends in part on the way in which the complementarity, needs, and mutual support between the sexes are lived out.

2297 at least address the acts of HRT and SRS. Some may argue that they are therapeutic and therefore permitted, but that requires making the assumption that the body is in some way “diseased” and that it is the feeling that is right. 2332 - 2333 seems to reject this, saying it is our responsibility to accept our sexual identity, which, among other things, includes our potential to procreate. Therefore, it seems we can make the following conclusions:

1. Presenting as another gender is wrong, since it doesn’t align with the acceptance encouraged in 2332 - 2333.
   a. This says nothing about your interests, career, etc.
   b. This may or may not have anything to do with clothing. I’m not sure and don’t have the space to explore that here.
2. HRT and SRS are against the moral law as per 2297.

With that said, I did find Peter Kreeft’s brief musing on the matter in this article interesting:

If the dominant sex of soul is not the same as that of the body, we have a sexual misfit, a candidate for a sex change operation of body or of soul, earthly or Heavenly. Perhaps Heaven supplies such changes just as it supplies all other needed forms of healing.

Granted, I don’t think we could ever know if it is actually the body that is misaligned with the soul, so I think that, in general, to live perfect (Matt. 5:48) within our best understanding and ability, we should either embrace our procreative potential or give it over to God in such dedicated service to Him that matters like “should I transition” aren’t even on our radar. Basically, I think the Church’s teaching on this matter is firmly that if one has gender dysphoria, their (often incredibly difficult) challenge is to learn to accept their body and sexual identity as-is, not seek to transition.

 

[Odilon]

We used to call them transvestites - people of one sex who like to dress in the clothing usually worn by the opposite sex and this seems to be mostly this is male to female. There are but 2 sexes and this cannot be changed.

 

[Thorolfr]

Someone who is a Transvestite is not necessarily Transgender. Transvestite is defined as:

A person, typically a man, who derives pleasure from dressing in clothes primarily associated with the opposite sex.

Most transvestites are straight men who wear normal male clothing most of the time and are probably married. And most typical transvestites probably don’t experience the gender dysphoria associated with being Transgender.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

We used to call them transvestites - people of one sex who like to dress in the clothing usually worn by the opposite sex and this seems to be mostly this is male to female.

Actually, “transvestite” is different from transgender. Many transvestites just get a kick out of dressing in the other gender’s clothes; sometimes this is even just done privately in one’s own home or bedroom, and not shared with anyone other than spouse or intimate partner. It may also be done in a way that doesn’t show to the world, for example by wearing the other gender’s underwear under your clothing. And although there are female-to-male transvestites, they often aren’t recognized because it is considered generally all right in today’s society for a woman to dress in masculine clothes and it’s usually pretty unremarkable.

“Transgender” isn’t really about clothes; it’s about actually feeling like you should BE the other gender, with the appropriate organs, etc. Many transvestites are not interested in getting rid of their genitals or having operations. They just want to play dress up.

 

[Thorolfr]

You beat me to it with a more thorough explanation.

 

[Zach]

The ones who go through with it and mutilate themselves I feel sorry for that they are that mentally ill to go to those extremes. Then there are the scammers looking for attention or wanting to play women’s sports. The activists who push it on confused kids I have nothing but disdain for.

 

[Thorolfr]

Basically, I think the Church’s teaching on this matter is firmly that if one has gender dysphoria, their (often incredibly difficult) challenge is to learn to accept their body and sexual identity as-is, not seek to transition.

I don’t know what it’s like to be Transgender, but I’m not sure that most Transgender people can learn to accept their body and the sexual identity that some people think they should have just by trying really hard. If someone’s brain won’t cooperate, no amount of willpower will change the situation. If someone has serious depression, they can’t just force themselves to be happy. If someone has ADHD, no matter how hard they try, they might not be able to pay attention to something that doesn’t interest them.

 

[ZMystiCat]

To clarify, I wasn’t stating that by trying really hard someone who is transgender could get rid of their dysphoria. Barring an act of God, I’m not even sure that that’s possible. I was speaking more in a “cross to bear” sense. Acceptance doesn’t necessarily mean comfort.

 

[Thorolfr]

The ones who go through with it and mutilate themselves I feel sorry for that they are that mentally ill to go to those extremes.

I doubt that Transgender people or any of the other people who struggle with a mental health issue want anyone’s pity.

 

[njlisa]

@NateLue

I’m a man but what if I feel like a dog? Would it be OK for me to go to every tree, every fire hydrant, and lift up a leg and urinate on it in public?

I’m guessing you are just joking. But honest to goodness, there are people who consider themselves to be animals. They dress up in their preferred species. And some take their species preference to the next level. (I don’t want to go into further detail.)

But let’s return to the subject at hand, namely transgenderism.

I’ll repeat the reflections I posted elsewhere in the thread.

++++++++++++++++++++++

Transgenderism is not a 20th century liberal invention. The matter was studied in the 19th century as a sexual pathology. See "Psychopathia Sexualis" by Richard von Krafft-Ebing.

We do have the reality of intersex people. They are born with male and female genitalia. The usual treatment was to convert all intersex babies to girls. Many adult intersex people resent these procedures. They suffer greatly and deserve our compassion.

Being transgender is not fun. Transgender people face mental health problems at a higher rate than the overall population.

 

[PetraG]

In addition to those who have always felt their psyche didn’t match their body, I think we unfortunately have a lot of people in our age who are afflicted with anxiety and cast about in confusion about what is causing it. In other ages, perhaps there was more of a prevailing impression that no one has a “perfect” life and if anyone did, the vast majority of people have no chance of having it. Life was hard, people expected it to be hard, and just having a warm place to live and a secure way to keep yourself fed until you died put you above average. That doesn’t leave much room to wish you were something you’re not.

 

[NateLue]

njlisa,
Yeah, just kidding about the dog thing, but a man wanting to be a woman is certainly a mental issue. And yes, we just be compassionate, love them and pray for them. I personally have some relatives, whom I see maybe once every 15 years are so that are gay/lesbian and I am kind and loving to them. They know where I stand and that I will ever approve of their lifestyle. I have worked with them too and even as a child had a close friend who was gay. He was turned that way by his father who had four boys and when the fifth one was born, he decided to dress the baby boy in girl’s clothes and brought him up as a girl. Once he had to start school, he cried and cried because he had to wear pants and not a dress. My friends and I then started noticing as we grew older as to why he acted different than the rest of us. We slowly broke away from him. Don’t know what ever happened to him.
I would say that the first step toward recovery is for the person to acknowledge they have a problem, accept their cross and live a Christian life as best as possible.

 

[halogirl]

You can’t ‘turn someone gay’ though. Why did the father dress him in girls’ clothes anyway - that’s the first thing that jumps at me about all of this ?

 

[OKComputer]

No. You are either male or female. It’s not politically correct to say that but it’s science. I’m willing to call you by whatever name you want to be called, and we should always be polite to people we disagree with, but science is science.

Odd how when they find bodies from 3000 years ago as mummies they always say it’s either male or female.

 

[NateLue]

His father wanted a girl and the boy grew up thinking he was a girl and that was embedded in his mind since birth, so yes I think he was turned gay by his dad. His dad later regretted it.

 

[halogirl]

That sort of thing could be where some people’s gender dysphoria originates from though. Interesting !

 

[PetraG]

That sort of thing could be where some people’s gender dysphoria originates from though. Interesting !

I only know one person with gender dysphoria, and he most definitely was not treated as a girl when he was growing up. He had sisters and brothers and he was not one of the sisters. I was not close enough to him when we were young to know exactly what went on with him before and after he left home.

 

[halogirl]

That’s why I was careful to say some, not all. I hope the time comes when we fully understand it so we can best help those suffering