Do you believe in Adam and Eve or Evolution?

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There is such discussion about evolution vs. creation, but I find this uneccessary. really.

A human is composed with both the body and soul. Only the body (now) is of earthly matter (dirt) (i.e. physical). And soul is a matter of faith, though a practical one. Whether Adam and Eve are the first “Homo Sapiens” does not really matter, since the species “Homo Sapiens” is only defined by their earthly quality, and nothing about the soul. Many creatures with the characteristics of “Homo Sapiens” could theoratically exist in Adam and Eve’s time, or even before so, but none of those define the dignity of human because science do not and cannot touch on the matter of soul. Adam and Eve would therefore be the first ones to have human bodies and human souls (as opposed to the the souls of angels, etc.), and the only ones that are truly qualified to be the parents of all humans.
 
Rahn said:
Then, what part of the story of Adam and Eve is meant to be taken literally, and what part is poetic license?
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By Patristic commentary, of course. The majority of which accept the text literally, but express an extra meaning in the words (poetic narrative).

The Eastern Orthodox priest, Fr. Seraphim Rose, offers a patristic commentary on the story of creation entirely filled with Church Fathers from St. Basil, St. Ephraim, St. Ambrose, and more. If you don’t want to accept what little comments are inserted, as a RC, the use the references to read the entire document yourself.
creatio.orthodoxy.ru/english/rose_genesis/chapter2.html

Links for limited online patristic and saint texts are:
www.ccel.org/fathers.html
www.newadvent.org/fathers/index.html
www.tertullian.org/fathers
 
CCC 116 The literal sense is the meaning conveyed by the words of Scripture and discovered by exegesis, following the rules of sound interpretation: “All other senses of Sacred Scripture are based on the literal”.
The bold is based on the Summa 1-1, 10. A. 1:
Objection 3. Further, besides these senses, there is the parabolical , which is not one of these four. (Parabolical: pertaining to a parable)
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On the contrary, Gregory says (Moral. xx, 1): “Holy Writ by the manner of its speech transcends every science, because in one and the same sentence, while it describes a fact, it reveals a mystery.”
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Reply to Objection 3. The parabolical sense is contained in the literal, for by words things are signified properly and figuratively. Nor is the figure itself, but that which is figured, the literal sense. When Scripture speaks of God’s arm, the literal sense is not that God has such a member, but only what is signified by this member, namely operative power. Hence it is plain that nothing false can ever underlie the literal sense of Holy Writ.
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The literal sense of Scripture is founded on what this means to God as it reveals a mystery. In this the Gifts of the Holy Spirit, particularly the gifts of understanding, wisdom, and knowledge are necessary.
Wisdom: Also,the gift of wisdom, we see God at work in our lives and in the world. For the wise person, the wonders of nature, historical events, and the ups and downs of our lives take on deeper meaning. The matters of judgment about the truth, and being able to see the whole image of God. We see God as our Father and other people with dignity. Lastly being able to see God in everyone and everything everywhere.
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Understanding: In understanding, we comprehend how we need to live as a follower of Christ. A person with understanding is not confused by all the conflicting messages in our culture about the right way to live. The gift of understanding perfects a person's speculative reason in the apprehension of truth. It is the gift whereby self-evident principles are known, Aquinas writes.
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Knowledge: With the gift of knowledge, we understand the meaning of God. The gift of knowledge is more than an accumulation of facts.
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It is necessary to have the Spirit of the Lord working in us in order to understand, “That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and of revelation, in the knowledge of Him:” Eph 1:17, otherwise we are evaluating an essential and principle reality, a higher truth, by a contingent reality which is our discursive reasoning. We are then left to our own reasoning which is not sufficient to the task, which is evident when we judge the truth of the Bible based on man’s reasoning and conclusions. The Spirit examines the evidence based on the prior truth of Creation by God, Gen 1:1.
 
I went to medical school where you learn the details of the details of the details. And there was always a point where the books and professors had to admit that “how that works / happens we don’t know”
Things are so perfectly designed in all details it was humbeling to study them. It’s impossible that evolution happened by itself. God has created this world.
 
followingtheway said:
Some Catholics believe in a Literal Creation story, and that Adam and Eve really existed while other Catholics believe that the Genesis Creation story is not to be taken literal and that Evolution is true. Though some people (like me :D) are still trying to decide. What is your matter on the issue
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A true believer will always believe every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God, period! And to believe in any other untruths comes directly from the enemy. He is a lier and deceiver and will do anything to have God’s children to fall away from the truth as he is doing so powerfully in these Last Days. I stand with my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ who created me. Who do you stand with and believe ? Make this choice and decision very wisely because your accountable for every word and thought that cometh from you before its to late.
 
jongon347 said:
A true believer will always believe every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God, period! .
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The Catholic Church does not teach that every word of the Bible is to be taken literally, not like some fundamentalists or certain evangelicals.
 
I 100% believe in evolution.

For me, no one can look at evolution, the Big Bang Theory, the creation of the stars, etc and NOT believe there isn’t a God. How all these things came to be in a perfect and timely manner is proof that there is a God if I’ve ever seen one! 🙂

Simply having a pre-made man and woman cheats God of all his wonderous doings behind evolution. It makes Him seem like He took the easy way out.
 
I have not read through the entire thread yet but my belief is that Evolution was the instrument through which God created Adam and Eve. I don’t advocate the literal story from Genesis.
 
Seth…Seth, are you listening?

“Who speaks to me”…Seth said looking about, Seth could not see anyone in the trees and brush that surrounded him…

“I am I, Seth, do you not know me?”

Seth became fearful, “Lord I did as my father asked”.

“You did as you father asked, Seth?”

“Yes, Lord, I did as my father asked”.

“And now the father of all, asks you Seth to tell the story of your earthly father and mother”.

“Yes Lord, my father has told me that I must tell the story to all my children so that they will know why they must toil”.

“Tell me your words Seth”

Seth stood confused for a moment…then he realized that He wanted him to recite the story.

“Lord, I will say, you gave man life and you placed them in a beautiful garden with dominion over all animals. I will say that you saw he was lonely and gave him mother from his rib, and I will tell them that you only asked that they not eat of the Tree of Knowledge or they would surely die”.

“Seth what about the Tree of Life?”

“Lord, it was there for their taking, it was never prohibited.”

Seth, chastised himself quietly for speaking so boldly to the Lord.

“It was there as a choice Seth, they could have the Tree of Life forever or bring death upon themselves through the Tree of Knowledge.”

“Yes, I understand Lord, but what should I tell my children?”

“Truth, Seth, always tell them the truth”

“But Lord, they will not understand the truth, I must use parables that they will understand”.

“See that they know my work Seth and see that they understand theirs”. And with that He was gone.

And they knew that they were naked, Seth thought. They understood that now they were different from other animals…they were naked. But my children that moved south, they were not so modest. It was warmer there, did they not need modesty because it was warmer, he pondered.

His children knew they were different from the other animals, that they had dominion over animals and an understanding beyond that of the other animals. Suddenly a thought flashes through him, it was the Tree of Knowledge that separated them from the animals! It represented the transition from instinct to self-awareness! Seth stopped for moment to let these thoughts seep into his consciousness. And Seth felt such a rush of self-congratulations! Nakedness! It was when the intelligent animal began to clothe himself to protect him from the cold winter. But wait…there was no cold winter in the Garden. In the Garden man didn’t need clothes, he didn’t need great intelligence since everything was provided for him. Seth stopped, fear gripped him like a freezing wind, was he being blasphemous?

“Was there no Garden of Eden” Seth thought, was it my father’s way to simplify for my understanding. Was the Garden really a state of mind, the mind of the animal that didn’t understand mortality and therefore had ever lasting life and didn’t understand nakedness and therefore just saw covering as nothing more than protection from the elements and became modest with custom?

Seth pondered these thoughts; he mulled how he could explain these things to his children. The children knew of their specialness, but how would explain their uniqueness with the truth.

“I will explain it as analogies Seth thought, I will say that the Tree of Knowledge was just a test of faithfulness and that clothing was just another test. My children must always believe that they are special.

© Copyright 2009 alexpinca (UN: alexpinca at Writing.Com). All rights reserved.
 
Huh… I thought I’d get some good information on the topic, having done a search for the topic after listening to a discussion on a Catholic Answers podcast related to it… but wow… just people tilting at windmills here, I’m just surprised no one has violated Godwin’s law yet to support their position…

I mean come on… the literalists “show me the research” …“ok, here it is… example a, b, c…”

“you’re wrong! you have not proved a thing!”

“ok… this, this, and that…”

“No! because xyz!! I do not accept your ‘evidence’ because that method is frequently flawed”

I’ll move on now, Pax!
 
Cyclophile said:
Huh… I thought I’d get some good information on the topic, having done a search for the topic after listening to a discussion on a Catholic Answers podcast related to it… but wow… just people tilting at windmills here, I’m just surprised no one has violated Godwin’s law yet to support their position…

I mean come on… the literalists “show me the research” …“ok, here it is… example a, b, c…”

“you’re wrong! you have not proved a thing!”

“ok… this, this, and that…”

“No! because xyz!! I do not accept your ‘evidence’ because that method is frequently flawed”

I’ll move on now, Pax!
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I don’t see anyone following Godwin’s law… how could we break it?
And I don’t see how you can say that we’re tilting at windmills if there is hardly anyone attacking anyone. Do you have anything to add to the discussion?
 
dskysmine said:
I don’t see anyone following Godwin’s law… how could we break it?
And I don’t see how you can say that we’re tilting at windmills if there is hardly anyone attacking anyone. Do you have anything to add to the discussion?
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You’ve not read Don Quixote? oh well… has nothing to do with attacking people. … regarding Godwin’s law, google is your friend. I was expressing surprise this discussion has not yet reached the point.

Regarding adding to the discussion, I already did, answering the o/p’s question. All else is… closed minds here on this thread talking to the wall.
 
followingtheway said:
Some Catholics believe in a Literal Creation story, and that Adam and Eve really existed while other Catholics believe that the Genesis Creation story is not to be taken literal and that Evolution is true. Though some people (like me :D) are still trying to decide. What is your matter on the issue
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IN THE BEGINNING… of conscious awareness is what genesis appears to be consistently describing, and more specifically, perhaps moral conscience. Poof you’re born full grown, fully aware, and knowing how to hunt/ gather and create shelter because God taught you as you were being born? Occam’s razor I have no recollection of being born and disbelieve people who claim they do. I can’t p(name removed by moderator)oint the age of my first memory and don’t quite know when I became aware of myself as a human being.

So… Adam sitting down to explain where he comes from to his grandkids… he knew what he was capable of knowing and making more of that is foolishness IMO. If science finds a way to prove what was going on before the beginning (of our awareness of beginning), that doesn’t mean God ceases authorship. It would mean we’ve evolved our comprehension of God crudely as best we knew how. Perhaps it would really serve to prove Jacob has been wrestling with his own ignorance for centuries and dragging everyone else into it demanding we all take sides. Is that news? 😛
 
Cyclophile said:
You’ve not read Don Quixote? oh well… has nothing to do with attacking people. … regarding Godwin’s law, google is your friend. I was expressing surprise this discussion has not yet reached the point.

Regarding adding to the discussion, I already did, answering the o/p’s question. All else is… closed minds here on this thread talking to the wall.
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Anyone or anything…
I know what tilting windmills means, I just haven’t seen it, hence my question to you.
You actually said you were suprised no one broke the law, but in order to break a law one must be abiding by it, and we did not. I don’t see people being closed minds here. A lot of the people who defended one or the other side presented their case and why they thought what they thought. Asking questions about other people’s argument wouldn’t hurt either to ensure that people are not “talking to the wall”.
 
Jack_Bauer said:
beeliner! He’s a witch. He’s a witch. Let’s burn her…or him.

Lay off the heretic. He can’t help if he doesn’t know LaPlace Transforms. So, let’s burn him. Or throw him in boiling pot of soup to see he … e v o l v e s … ooooooo.

And then again we could see if he floats like wood.

He’s a witch, he’s a witch… [torches burning, crowd of angry peasants rallying to burn him]:highprayer:
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ROFL-- ought to print this out and mail it to every member of conservative clergy having hysterical arguments in the press claiming themselves victims of science. Let’s not leave out the snide commentators holding science to a ridiculous standard of omnipotence but refusing to hold religion to any standard of proof whatsoever rendering adult considerations to gibberish. Nanny nanny boo boo contest. :rolleyes:

Oh yee of little faith filling in the blanks God didn’t write and turn around hiding behind the Mother Church’s skirt saying God made me do it. Too bad that excuse doesn’t cut it with the flock. It’s a good thing more of us than not were raised to be honest to a fault. It’s also a good thing not all of us blindly follow authority so as to justify digging up yet another reference to Catholicisms name: “Kill them all, let God sort them out.” A Pope gave his blessing to that once upon a time. Who among the faithful are willing to call it a commandment etched in stone to justify/ shore up their opinion?

In this forum, in science, in religion, and in pop culture it’s practically a crime to simply admit YOU DON’T KNOW something. Why is it a crime, and not an invitation for all of the above to delve deeper, or GADS, rediscover our humility? Should male posturing and ego nonsense trump truth?

Moreover, if the evidence of God’s existence turned up in science, what’s the likelihood they’d dig a deeper hole to bury it because they’re too afraid of the ramifications vs the Church being confronted with a gospel that contradicts their teachings? When both parties conduct themselves like it’s a zero sum game where God loses when science advances or vice versa, both DISCIPLINES (anyone recall that concept??) disgrace the honor of their own professions.

Gentlemen, go sit by your dish. Clearly you’re too occupied serving yourselves to live up to the noble service to humanity you’ve respectively volunteered. Enough is quite enough. We’ll not be going through another round of WV students terrorized by school bombings over evolution. As per usual, it’s the so-called adults too ignorant to be ashamed of themselves inflicting themselves on children convinced they’re righteous. Just another human shield, and for what? SHAME!

Judge Judy has spoken
 
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