Do you believe in Adam and Eve or Evolution?

[PaladinSword]

Correct me if I’m wrong but I was under the impression that the scientific community supports the biblical story through DNA analysis and human genome experiments that all of mankind is descendant from two human parents

 

[PaladinSword]

Also has anyone else heard the Shinto creation story of izanagi and izanami? I always thought there were very interesting parallels to the Adam and Eve story. Almost every culture has a flood myth I’m interested in other creation stories that are similiar to the biblical narrative.

 

[dskysmine]

Correct me if I’m wrong but I was under the impression that the scientific community supports the biblical story through DNA analysis and human genome experiments that all of mankind is descendant from two human parents

You are talking about the Mitochondrial Eve and the Y-chromosomal Adam Hypotheses?
They are not exactly the same thing…
Although every currently living human shares a common ancestor we know that it was not the first homo sapiens. And the problem comes precisely from that. Homo sapiens could have mated with Neanderthals, for example, but I don’t know what the result would be.
Humans (homo sapiens) appeared around 200.000 years ago.
Their modern behaviour only appeared 50.000 years ago.
The Mitochondrial Eve assuming it is true is < 200.000 years.
The Y-chromosomal Adam is assumed to have existed 142.000 years.

When would you expect Adam and Eve existed?
200.000 years ago?
142.000 years ago?
50.000 years ago?
between 5,700 and 10,000 years ago like YEC assume?

I don’t know which one is Eve or Adam but I believe that they were true. I just can’t p(name removed by moderator)oint when they existed.

 

[Lui]

When would you expect Adam and Eve existed?
200.000 years ago?
142.000 years ago?
50.000 years ago?
between 5,700 and 10,000 years ago like YEC assume?

I don’t know which one is Eve or Adam but I believe that they were true.** I just can’t p(name removed by moderator)oint when they existed**.

That’s the exact problem I have with the Adam and Eve story. We know that Homo sapiens are about 200.000 years old. When did Adam and Eve exactly live?

And the problem comes precisely from that. Homo sapiens could have mated with Neanderthals, for example, but I don’t know what the result would be. .

washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/06/AR2010050604423.html

 

[Ahimsa]

Correct me if I’m wrong but I was under the impression that the scientific community supports the biblical story through DNA analysis and human genome experiments that all of mankind is descendant from two human parents

The biblical story says that all of humankind is descended solely from two persons, and that these two persons were the first humans to exist.

The scientific evidence does not say that. The scientific evidence says that we can locate a female who is the most recent female ancestor (MRFA) of all presently living humans. But this MRFA was not the first human female: she herself had a mother, and her mother had a mother, etc. MRFA was not the only human female existing: she likely had sisters, cousins, aunts, etc.

One way to think about the MRFA is to think about your own mother. Your mother is the MRFA for you and your siblings. Your grandmother is the MRFA for you, your siblings, and your cousins. If you, your sibilngs, and your cousins were the only humans alive, then your grandmother would be the MRFA of all humanity – and yet, you know that your grandmother herself had a mother. This great-grandmother would be a recent female ancestor, but not the most recent female ancestor.

Likewise, the mitochondrial Eve is the MRFA for all currently living humans, but she is not the only female ancestor of all currently living humans. There were females before her, and existing simultaneously with her.

Similar logic applies to the Y-chromosomal Adam, the most recent male ancestor (who did not live, according to the evidence, at the same time that m-Eve lived).

 

[Ahimsa]

Correct me if I’m wrong but I was under the impression that the scientific community supports the biblical story through DNA analysis and human genome experiments that all of mankind is descendant from two human parents

Of course, I should add that only one of the two creation narratives in Genesis speak about humanity being descended from only two parents. Genesis, chapter 1, however, does not give a specific number of first parents.

 

[PaladinSword]

Good point Ahimsa. Never thought of it that way.

 

[Moro_Rock]

Some Catholics believe in a Literal Creation story, and that Adam and Eve really existed while other Catholics believe that the Genesis Creation story is not to be taken literal and that Evolution is true. Though some people (like me ) are still trying to decide. What is your matter on the issue

Evolution is a Religion and those who teach it know that it is unprovable because its not true . They teach evolution because its all they can dream up to oppose Christianity.

 

[Jack_Bauer]

390
The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative LANGUAGE, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man.264 Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents.265

usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt1art1p7.shtml

Adam and Eve: Real People

It is equally impermissible to dismiss the story of Adam and Eve and the fall (Gen. 2–3) as a fiction. A question often raised in this context is whether the human race descended from an original pair of two human beings (a teaching known as monogenism) or a pool of early human couples (a teaching known as polygenism).

In this regard, Pope Pius XII stated: “When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains either that after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parents of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now, it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the teaching authority of the Church proposed with regard to original sin which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam in which through generation is passed onto all and is in everyone as his own” (Humani Generis 37).

The story of the creation and fall of man is a true one, even if not written entirely according to modern literary techniques. The Catechism states, “The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man. Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents” (CCC 390).

catholic.com/library/Adam_Eve_and_Evolution.asp

 

[Lui]

Evolution is a Religion and those who teach it know that it is unprovable because its not true . They teach evolution because its all they can dream up to oppose Christianity.

Since when does evolution oppose Christianity? I think certain things considering evolution are a fact just like it is a fact that the earth is round and not flat.

 

[Jack_Bauer]

ENCYCLICALHUMANI GENERIS OF THE HOLY FATHER PIUS XII

1. It remains for Us now to speak about those questions which, although they pertain to the positive sciences, are nevertheless more or less connected with the truths of the Christian faith. In fact, not a few insistently demand that the Catholic religion take these sciences into account as much as possible. This certainly would be praiseworthy in the case of clearly proved facts; but caution must be used when there is rather question of hypotheses, having some sort of scientific foundation, in which the doctrine contained in Sacred Scripture or in Tradition is involved. If such conjectural opinions are directly or indirectly opposed to the doctrine revealed by God, then the demand that they be recognized can in no way be admitted.

 

[buffalo]

Of course, I should add that only one of the two creation narratives in Genesis speak about humanity being descended from only two parents. Genesis, chapter 1, however, does not give a specific number of first parents.

What has been the constant teaching and understanding of the Church?

 

[Jack_Bauer]

Cont’d

1. For these reasons the Teaching Authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions, on the part of men experienced in both fields, take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter - for the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God. However, this must be done in such a way that the reasons for both opinions, that is, those favorable and those unfavorable to evolution, be weighed and judged with the necessary seriousness, moderation and measure, and provided that all are prepared to submit to the judgment of the Church, to whom Christ has given the mission of interpreting authentically the Sacred Scriptures and of defending the dogmas of faith.[11] Some however, rashly transgress this liberty of discussion, when they act as if the origin of the human body from pre-existing and living matter were already completely certain and proved by the facts which have been discovered up to now and by reasoning on those facts, and as if there were nothing in the sources of divine revelation which demands the greatest moderation and caution in this question.

 

[Jack_Bauer]

Cont’d

1. When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains that either after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parent of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled with that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the Teaching Authority of the Church propose with regard to original sin, which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam and which, through generation, is passed on to all and is in everyone as his own.[12]

 

[Jack_Bauer]

1. For this reason, after mature reflexion and consideration before God, that We may not be wanting in Our sacred duty, We charge the Bishops and the Superiors General of Religious Orders, binding them most seriously in conscience, to take most diligent care that such opinions be not advanced in schools, in conferences or in writings of any kind, and that they be not taught in any manner whatsoever to the clergy or the faithful.

1. Let the teachers in ecclesiastical institutions be aware that they cannot with tranquil conscience exercise the office of teaching entrusted to them, unless in the instruction of their students they religiously accept and exactly observe the norms which We have ordained. That due reverend and submission which in their unceasing labor they must profess toward the Teaching Authority of the Church, let them instill also into the minds and hearts of their students.

1. Let them strive with every force and effort to further the progress of the sciences which they teach; but let them also be careful not to transgress the limits which We have established for the protection of the truth of Catholic faith and doctrine. With regard to new questions, which modern culture and progress have brought to the foreground, let them engage in most careful research, but with the necessary prudence and caution; finally, let them not think, indulging in a false “irenism,” that the dissident and the erring can happily be brought back to the bosom of the Church, if the whole truth found in the Church is not sincerely taught to all without corruption or diminution.

1. Relying on this hope, which will be increased by your pastoral care, as a pledge of celestial gifts and a sign of Our paternal benevolence, We impart with all Our heart to each and all of you, Venerable Brethren, and to your clergy and people the Apostolic Benediction.

 

[Jack_Bauer]

I know this is a lot of reading. But Catholics need to understand the limits in which they are bound by law.

 

[jwinch2]

His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI:

Currently, I see in Germany, but also in the United States, a somewhat fierce debate raging between so-called “creationism” and evolutionism, presented as though they were mutually exclusive alternatives: those who believe in the Creator would not be able to conceive of evolution, and those who instead support evolution would have to exclude God. This antithesis is absurd because, on the one hand, there are so many scientific proofs in favour of evolution which appears to be a reality we can see and which enriches our knowledge of life and being as such. But on the other, the doctrine of evolution does not answer every query, especially the great philosophical question: where does everything come from? And how did everything start which ultimately led to man? I believe this is of the utmost importance.

This is the most recent statement from the Holy Father that I can find on the subject.

 

[Ahimsa]

What has been the constant teaching and understanding of the Church?

The Catholic Church certainly teaches that Adam and Eve were the first couple. Whether this actually negates the possibility that Adam and Eve also symbolize a small population, is another question.

 

[Ahimsa]

Now it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled with that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the Teaching Authority of the Church propose with regard to original sin, which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam and which, through generation, is passed on to all and is in everyone as his own.

The “in no way apparent” phrase leaves open the possibility that (1) Adam and Eve as one couple; and (2) Adam and Eve as representing a small population, could, one day, be reconciled.

 

[Jack_Bauer]

The “in no way apparent” phrase leaves open the possibility that (1) Adam and Eve as one couple; and (2) Adam and Eve as representing a small population, could, one day, be reconciled.

You are either a fallen away Catholic or a non-Catholic attempting to interpret, thus say, the nuances of an official Catholic document. You also isolated this outside the rest of the document. I tried to keep it together without posting the entire document. Had you payed attention to the rest of the document you might notice that we are not supposed to advocate anything that goes against the Church’s teaching. We are also not permitted to trample over Catholics to push our own agendas.